The Price Of Desertion

[dArKeR]

An Army soldier accused of deserting his unit in Iraq went on trial late last month.

Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia was court-martialed on charges he abandoned his unit in the middle of the war in one of the most dangerous parts of Iraq.

CBS News Correspondent Dan Rather of 60 Minutes II first met Mejia earlier this year when he was still AWOL -- absent without official leave.

He went AWOL, he told 60 Minutes II, because he was morally opposed to a war that has killed or wounded nearly 5,000 United States soldiers.

Mejia’s commanding officer and fellow National Guardsmen told us a different story: that he went AWOL because he’s a coward.

Here is the story of how a military tribunal dealt with Mejia after his decision, as he told us in March, to go AWOL.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/02/60II/main620738.shtml

With the evidence I have I wouldn't fight or kill in Iraq either. It's a different story if a army is attacking our country. It has been proven that 95% of what Bush and his Adm. said were all lies. Changing intelligence reports. Cheating of military contracts. Enron cover-up. Bush was aWol during a real war too! Mejia has enough evidence to convict the entire Bush Crime Family for murder!

[Wonk]

1. Video here. for those who missed it

33 M vp3
Opens with QuickTime Player

[NNN0LHI]

11. I know I have said this a few times before, but...

...you da man. You are on it.

Don

:bounce:

[DEMVET-USMC]

2. It is very sad what happened to this man. Compare him to the Coward in

Charge. He was covicted of disertion AND SENTENCED TO 1 YEAR IN PRISON. What did Bush do when he was assigned Stateside duty. He doesn`t bother to show up for annual flight physical and loses status as pilot. Life trully is so unfair.He had fought in Iraq for 6 months and was being ordered back.Staff Sgt. Mejia also was a guardsman as was Bush. ...Oscar

[JaySherman]

3. Bush is a trust-fund baby.

Sgt. Mejia is working-class slob (so to speak), and a minority to boot.

Sometimes I look at the injustices in this world and truly wonder if there are any gods at all.

[DEMVET-USMC]

4. Life is so unfair to so many good people and a pack of traitors such as

the Bush and Walker families rob our Nation throughout the 20th century and on into the 21st,dealing arms to known and future enemies beginning in the 1920s . Go to < http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm >for this story, and it just goes on and on. You really have to wonder some times. March on,keep the faith, and do what you can to make our World a better place. ...Oscar

[RapidCreek]

23. I applaud him....A true patriot and hero...one who has demonstrated.

a very rare sort of bravery. So many times on this board I've read "Well, they have to follow orders" or "What would you have them do, refuse to fight and go to prison?". Of course these remarks are generally paralleled with pronouncements of heroism directed at those who lack the balls to do either...and instead engage in fighting and killing which many know in their hearts and minds is unjustified, illegal and just plane WRONG.

Really, what takes more fortitude and strength of character than the actions this man has taken? He will be subject to derision and shunning both overt and whispered for the rest of his life. What is easier...living for the next forty years with this hanging over your head...or whoring yourself morally for only a couple. After all the odds of any serious consequence for whoring yourself for a couple of years....rationalizing your actions as "heroic" are quite a bit lower than putting down your weapon and saying..."NO I won't participate in this shit anymore...do what you will to me but I will not be your tool, I will not be the instrument of the evil you commit", I will not help you damage the integrity of my country or endanger the safety of the people I have taken an oath to protect".

If I knew how to get in touch with this guy, I'd send him some money ...and thank him for dutifully living up to the oath of enlistment he took, regardless of the very real and very certain consequences he will pay for doing so.

RC

[JSJ]

5. He, and the handful...

...of other troops who've walked away, are the only heroes this conflict has produced--- at least among military personel.

[DEMVET-USMC]

6. You are so wrong,and your statement "only troops who`ve walked away...

are the only heroes in this conflict is so insulting to all the brave men and women who have fought courageously, been maimed horribly,and died there is an insult to all members of our armed forces. If you were to be there in Iraq you would very much want to have them there to protect you. These radical Islamists want to kill you. The people protecting you from them are these men and women who make up the armed forces of the United States. They are being pushed to the max as forces are stretched so thin. How anyone could make such an uncaring statement baffles me. ...Oscar

[htuttle]

7. Is this a radical Islamist who wants to kill us?

Seems to me, that it sort of depends on your point of view. Doesn't look like we did a very good job 'protecting' this girl. There are about 10,000+ more like her.

I will grant you that by and large, US soldiers are caught in a situation not of their choosing. However, since we started this war, and started it based on LIES, we cannot automatically be considered 'the good guys' this time. We'd have to earn that moniker, and we sure the hell haven't!

Regarding the troops who walked away: Do take into consideration that since the war itself is illegal in several jurisdictions (the UN and the US's own constitution), and that soldiers have the duty to REFUSE illegal orders, one might say that the guys who went AWOL were the only ones actually obeying the law!

[DEMVET-USMC]

8. No obviously not. Look at that footage of those 4 Americans being dragged

already injured from the vehicle the had been riding in and being doused with petrol,set affire and chopped to pieces while still alive, and yes ,those people want to kill you simply for not believing in their institutionalized brand of insanity. When someone is there in front of you trying to kill you , you do everything you can to kill them before they kill you. ...Oscar

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. that's a great premise

If we were fighting nazis or Cobra commanders, but not when you're fighting a civilian population that will keep trying to kill you as long as you keep trying to kill them.

There is nobody is Iraq who can surrender their forces like Japan or Germany did. Thus, there's no way the war is going to end unless the troops just get yanked out - or they themselves decide they no longer want to be used as cannon fodder in a pointless war and go AWOL.

[DEMVET-USMC]

16. My friend, I entered this thread defending the staff Sgt. who was

court marshaled. I stand by those statements or would not have made them, but that does not mean the troops stuck with the job of serving in Iraqi actions do not qualify as courageousness when those who have fought courageously have done just that. Put yourself in their combat boots and imagine how you would feel. I am not trying to justify this war,simply trying to give a trooper`s point of view as to heroism, which is what this secondary thread lead to. ...Oscar

[RapidCreek]

26. What about the fact that Iraq is not our country, don't you understand?

Iraq is not the United States....It is Iraq. It belongs to Iraqi's, not Americans. Iraqi's don't want Americans in their country, bullying them, privatizing/stealing their national treasures, ordering them what to do and of course killing them, or throwing them into prison if they fail to acquiesce. No one made the 4 Americans you speak of go to Iraq. They did so to aid and abet war profiteers who are robbing Iraq and they damn well knew that.

If you break into my house, steal from me and have the audacity to tell me, in commission of your thievery, that it is for my own good, that you do what you do...you're going to end up with a nine millimeter chunk of lead between your eyes.

I find it somewhat odd that you hold Iraqi's to a higher standard of behavior than you would the average American faced with the same situation.

Tell you what pal...On the outside chance the Iraqi Army invaded the US and saved us from an American version of Saddam Hussein...then stuck around with their boots on our necks while Armed Iraqi war profiteers showed up in our towns, in-sourcing employees to do our jobs, usurping control of our resources and control of our local governments they'd meet a damned sight worse fate than the four sons of bitches your are whining about. What, the people in your town, I suppose, would give them the run of things, right? Welcome them with warm handshakes and invites for dinner? Yea right, give me a break. Guys like you would be the first ones loading up your stashed full auto mini-14's with thirty shot clips.

RC

[axollot]

13. all of our soldiers are heroes

...except for the few bad apples that get off on the killing aspect of war (abu gharib).

I don't think that the only heroes are the ones walking away, but I am impressed the ones that did had the balls to stand up.

There are other ways of making a stand against this war - they could have done something like my brother in law did in Vietnam.

He laid down his weapon saying it was against his religious belief. He did not dessert his post though.

Lets not forget that a lot of our guys out there are young. They believe they are doing the right thing for our country because that is what they are told. They have yet to experience or understand the lies our government tell them.

I know a number of vets from Vietnam. While they were out there they thought they were doing the right thing - it wasn't till getting home and seeing things from the civilian point of view that the realization of what was done to them hit so hard.

A lot of those men committed suicide upon returning. A lot of them are suffering not just from injuries inflicted on them but also the mental anguish from finding out the truth - the lies told them about why were there in the first place.

I do not blame our soldiers over there fighting, I blame the government that put them there in the first place.

[DEMVET-USMC]

17. Very well stated, truly. Please ,all DUers,do not turn against our brave

troops. They are paying a terrible price to defend our Nation. There actually are some very nasty types who would kill you in a second if they thought they would get away with it.They say so all the time ,and do it. 9-11 did happen. ...Oscar

[Bandit]

19. The way these soldiers are behaving is putting us more in danger

If you wish for us to respect the military it must take a stand on the abuse and total disregard to Rules of Warfare. Why are they robbing every house they enter? Why are they raping and pillaging not to even mention the torture of innocents along with the guilty. Why are common civilians interned alongside hardened criminals? When the military stands up and says no more of these tactics then I will start showing some respect. They need to earn it and by all accounts they are doing the exact opposite. We are in much more danger because of Iraq and the Bush* Cabal than at almost any other time in our history and you want us to be thankful. The more these soldiers get a conscience and quit the rampaging the better off America will be. We used to be better than that.

[DEMVET-USMC]

20. There are about 140,000 troops there and some regretable events

have happened, but this did not involve the vast majority of our people there. It is starting to be like Veit Nam. The people start damning evryone there for the actions of a few. Not only that but you turn a blind eye on the sort of people they are fighting. Look what they have done to people they have captured. Oh somehow that doesn`t matter. I am not trying to defend BUSHCO, I despise them all.This is not about them. I get so frusterated with constantly having to repeat myself. Read what I said at the beginning of this thread. ...Oscar

[Bandit]

24. You keep wanting to justify our abuse with what they have done

We used to be better than that. You are just trying to excuse our behavior and that is exactly what I'm talking about. As long as the troops keep hiding or excusing such behavior they get no respect from me. It is a simple case of CYA and I'm not buying it. The soldiers en masse have to stand up and say no more of this shit. Not just by voice but by action. When I was in the service and a few bad apples gave my unit a black eye it was dealt with immediately by the rest of us. This is not happening that I've been made aware of and by not addressing these things the bad reports just go on and on. I'm not buying your using 9-11 as an excuse for us to rampage through the entire mid-east either. 9-11 was an act of murder not war. It was a criminal act that needs prosecution for but no country was involved so why war? It is criminal misuse of our military and they are behaving like criminals because of it.

[Just Me]

31. Personally, I do see the nuances DemVet speaks of,...

,...I do understand where he is coming from,...and I don't hold people to exceptional perfection or standards under these conditions.

Personal responsibility always operates within a context.

It's just too f*cking bad that we don't nail the so-called "representatives" to the damn wall for failing to live up to the reasonable standards of honesty, integrity and service.

One of the poorest qualities in our country is the weakness of our social justice.

So, life ain't fair!!! Swallow hard, pull up your boot straps, grind that jaw,...and just take it. Then, move forward as best and steady as you can.

[RapidCreek]

29. Hey...gotta question for you

If five of my friends and I were to break into your home and four of us cleaned your kitchen then sat and polished your shoes while the other two raped your daughter, killed your wife and stole your silverware...what would you do when you walked in the door?

I mean let's face it...yea we broke into your house...but we cleaned your kitchen and you now have nice shiny shoes! The rest is just an unfortunate occurance, right?

RC

[axollot]

32. Blame the government

Like I had said - Blame the government for putting these soldiers there!

The disgusting things that is going on in Iraq by our military comes from the highest ranking officer. It goes all the way to the president himself.

A reservist friend of mine put it this way - the highest ranking officer is responsible for knowing what the lowest ranking enlisted man is doing.

The raping and pillaging that is going on - wouldn't be going on if the government didn't sanction it. It is certainly turning a blind eye to it. Except of course when it became public. That is when the finger pointing started.

What is happening there is wrong, but I don't think it would be going on if our government knew what the hell it was doing in the first place.

[DUJunkie]

22. They are paying a terrible price to defend our Nation?

DEFEND FROM WHAT? :eyes:

[RapidCreek]

28. Defending our Nation? From what?

What does 9/11 have to do with Iraq?

RC

[atreides1]

14. Why?

Why are they fighting? Why are they being killed and maimed? The insurgent forces are made up of Iraqis of all stripes. Islamists who are just as radical as some Christians here in the states, former members of the Iraqi military that was disbanded by Bremer the Idiot,
Baathists, foreign fighters, and regular Iraqis who want to be free of foreign armies that occupy their country.

It doesn't take a lot of courage to fight in a war based on lies, that just shows that the military contains as many sheep as there are
in the civilian populace.

The military isn't protecting anyone, they are providing Halliburton, and other companies with ties to this administration, with free guard
service. The military isn't protecting me, their part in this tragedy has only put us into more danger.

And if the people of this country were not the bigots that they are we wouldn't be in Iraq. But the "subhuman brown people" just do not know what is good for them, so the big US brother has to show them the error of their ways. Even if it means killing woman and children, or attacking weddings, or torturing and abusing prisoners who were taken from their home in the dead of night.

What have they died for, an administration that uses them as cannon fodder, a pResident that shakes their hands, while at the same time stabbing them in the back by reducing the budget for veterans.

Are those in Iraq heroes, maybe, but those who have walked away are the courageous ones. By walking away they have sacrificed everything, for the rest of their lives they will be called cowards, deserters, and other not so nice names, but they knew this when they made their
decisions.

One last item if you are referring to the four mercenaries who were killed in Fallujah in your following post, please spare us the tears.
All four to a man were not interested in doing anything for the US, they were only interested in filling their pockets, and as in the past died like all mercenary soldiers, at the hands of those that they had come to oppress.

Gilbert
Desert Storm Vet
US Army

[DEMVET-USMC]

21. These radical Islamists say we are infadels and that it is there Duty

to kill us. I`m sick of talking about it. If you wish to turn on your fellow Americans in favor of a bunch of murdering religious lunatics I can`t stop you.

[htuttle]

25. Without arguing that very incendiary statement....

You do realize that the numbers of these 'radical Islamists' are no greater than, say, the number of mafioso or Tongs and Triads in the US. Should we have attacked New York with military force because John Gotti lived there?

Our response is very disproportionate to the situation. Terrorism is ultimately a police/counter intelligence issue, not a military one. THAT is where this administration went terribly, terribly wrong on the problem of terrorism. Their actions now serve to create MORE people who hate us, and they're not even all 'radical Islamists' anymore. Regular average people who's families have been killed by our military now have plenty of reason to hate this country as much as Osama bin Laden does.

[Red State Rebel]

30. I agree with you....

there are a lot of blind eyes in DU, but some great people too.

I've been attacked for standing up for our military because I have family over there. It's really sad.

[playahata1]

33. That does not mean we must give up our freedom of speech.

How do I, American citizen, benefit from what "our troops" are doing over there? How does my expressing my opposition to this farce put "our troops" in danger?

[Peregrine]

9. He deserted

and should have the balls and conviction of his beliefs to accept the consequences of his actions. I think he is getting off easy. He has a job where indirectly or directly he kills people, guess what, that is the job description and I expect him to do his job.

[Bridget Burke]

10. You pay your taxes & he works for you....

Is that what you're saying?

[nolabels]

15. Too bad you can't also use your moral ethics for saving money

I asked some war hawk posting on this board if it would not be just cheaper to buy the oil from Iraq, rather than steal it. Never got an answer back from him. I have been looking at the geo-political implications and I think oil was only one of the keys to the problem. The real problem is the whole world economic structure. The oil was not the reason, but being able to call the shots is what it was about. It was just one of the legs on a very shaky table


http://costofwar.com/

[Bandit]

18. Do you feel the same about Bush*?

After all he did exactly the same thing.

[Mari333]

27. Good for him, hes a good boy and a hero

so are all the soldiers over there who detest Bush, and, as the stepmother of one of them who is currently there at Abu Ghraib, I , and my stepson, and all the soldiers who know Bush sent them over there for NOTHING, applaud this young man.
This war should have never happened.
Over 800 young people died for nothing.
Thousands of Iraqi citizens died for nothing.
Thousands of soldiers and citizens of Iraq are wounded for nothing.
All the families, including ours , of soldiers and all the Iraqi families over there who are suffering are suffering
for nothing.
The only people this occupation of Iraq did any good are
lucrative corporations who own all the lucrative contracts that pad the bank accounts of Bush, Cheney, and their friends.
http://www.vaiw.org
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
http://www.calltoconscience.org
http://www.mfso.org

This war is a fraud.
The Bush administration murdered every soldier over there.
They might as well have pulled the trigger.
Hooah for Camilio Mejia. Im proud of him.