CBS Poll: Vets Favor Bush

[dArKeR]

Veterans' evaluations of the war in Iraq are slightly more optimistic than those of the American public overall -- although even veterans question how well things are going for the U.S. in Iraq and whether the war is worth the costs, a CBS News poll finds.

And as both presidential candidates vie for the veterans vote in 2004, right now President Bush holds a clear lead among those who have served. Veterans are also more likely than other voters to approve of how the president is handling both Iraq and the overall war on terror.

Even though they are not generally upbeat about the how the war in Iraq is going for U.S., veterans are more positive than Americans overall: 47% think things are going well, and 51% think the war is going badly.

HOW IS WAR GOING FOR U.S.?
ALL
Well
37%
Badly
60%

VETERANS
Well
47%
Badly
51%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/04/opinion/polls/main621136.shtml

We need to put an Air America radio/web link into every Vets home and office. How misinformed can our Vets be? This bias is because of the lying American Whore Media, no doubt!

[ChompySnack]

1. Apparently

If more people think that the war is going badly than ok, even veterans, then that means that they favor Bush. The media sucks.

[Dhalgren]

9. This is so screwed!

The article makes you think that Vets are in favor of the brain-damaged, retarded, gimpresident! Actually a majority would vote against him based on the war approval thing! Gods I fucking hate the US corporate mega-government!

[Just Me]

36. Oh - how - f'n - biased - a - headline - is - that!!!!!!

:argh:

These people need to be nailed to the wall for such deceptive garbage!!! Gawd-damnit, I am so sick of watching all the manipulative practices!!! It is so completely ANTI-DEMOCRACY and ANTI-AMERICAN!!!

:argh:

EWWWWWWW!!! We have got to start focusing our energies on targeting the media for protests, in addition to the war-profitteers. This is completely unacceptable!!!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. That's only because they only see the 1971 John Kerry

once they are informed of his career long efforts on their behalf that will change.

[Career Prole]

3. CBS sure as HELL didn't ask me or any other vet here!

eo-damned-m! :grr:

[0007]

32. Nor this Korean war vet

[Career Prole]

42. Hey...that was my dad's war, too.

And I know which way he would have voted in that fool poll. :toast:

[Just Me]

44. If I failed to tell you guys how much I admire you, I want you to know,...

,...how much!!! Except,...I can't look you in the eyes and hug you over the internet, on this board.

Nevertheless, I can tell you how much I respect you, admire your "minds", Love your humanity, and am grateful to be exposed to your wisdom!!!

There is no "icon" which can express how I perceive you all. I can only tell you that, you are my heroes,...and, I, for one, need heroes like you in this day.

Thank you for being you!!!

[Soloflecks]

4. Unfreakin' believable!

That is absolutely mindboggling, not to mention appalling.

[West Coast Democrat]

5. Apparently they polled about 170 veterans in the mix

this article focuses on a small subset of their larger poll.

[TheFarseer]

6. focus on the vote for poll

where bush leads Kerry 54%-40% Isn't that a smaller margin that usual for democratic candidate vs republican candidate? Considering how overwhelmingly the military usually supports the repub, isn't this terrible news?

[KAZ]

15. Have to agree.

Probably a predominantly male group, and these numbers are not that far off from the "male" numbers I've seen in other polls. Headline not withstanding, I think it's rather positive for Kerry.

[SaveElmer]

7. It's not that bad!!!

Kerry is starting from a base of 40% of vets before he has really gotten going...I'm willing to bet this percentage will increase

What % did Bush get in 2000 ?

[JayS]

11. What % did Bush get in 2000?

I never heard a final number. I remember there was going to be a wait for the ballots from soldiers in the field and a disagreement over some ballots from Navy personnel that were on ships that did not timestamp their mail. The story got lost in the hubbub though.

[blm]

8. 51% of the vets said it is going BADLY and it's spun into a positive

statistic for Bush?

What a crock of shit.

Kerry is bringing in more vets than ever even voted before out of disgust with the system.

Kerry has vet groups that worked for Bush in 2000 now working for him, even in South Carolina.

[shraby]

10. I don't know what vets they are

talking about, but my father is a WWII vet (Battle of the Bulge) and he is voting Kerry.

[roscoeroscoe]

62. good point

i'm in the service, and many of my buddies are fed up with this nonsense. i'm hoping bush doesn't wipe us all out (americans) and we can go back to a nice normal slightly crazy world.
i can't defend why i reinlisted to my wife... doesn't make any sense to me except that i think somehow we'll all survive bush more or less intact.

:)

[struggle4progress]

12. Some of these numbers are fun to look at!

"Veterans do have a markedly different view of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal than Americans overall. By a wide margin, veterans think the responsibility for the abuse ought to go up the chain of command: 57% think people higher up should be held responsible, while 28% think only the soldiers involved should be. Americans as a whole are more closely divided."

[Caution]

13. Folks you are missing the more important part of that article!

Scroll down into it. At the bottom, almost as a footnote they have a graph showing the numbers for registered voters (not just vets) and those numbers are:
Kerry: 49%
Bush: 41%

this poll is freakin GREAT news.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. I did see that

but decided to challenge the headline instead.

[Just Me]

45. I KNOW. I know. But, the headline is so freakin' misleading! n/t

[gratuitous]

14. And way-y-y-y-y down at the bottom of the story

Is the real news: All voters polled for preference:

Kerry 49%
Bush 41%

But the headline is all about veterans and how they don't hate the corrupt Bush administration quite as much as the public at large.

Tell me that one about the liberal media again? I always get a big larf out of that one.

[jwcomer]

16. whyt he article now

This poll happened two weeks ago, why an article now? That seems strange.

[CalebHayes]

17. There is a simple reason why... because most of them are male.

[David__77]

18. I would like to see a statistical control for age, sex, and so forth.

If we sample a general population model corresponding to the veteran sample's gender, race and age statistics, I think the divergence would be a lot less. That said, there is a definite over-representation of Republicans in the officers corps of the various branches.

[Lucille]

19. Only 170 Veterans are in the sample

CBS news is extrapolating from the opinions of 170 vets the opinons of nearly 27,000,000 US veterans. I don't know if vets prefer Bush to Kerry, but I do know you can't take this report seriously. Note CBS tells you only that the margin of error is +/-3 % for the entire sample, not for the comparison of vets vs non-vets in their sample.

[VolcanoJen]

21. 170 vets in the sample?!!!??????!!!????

Are you serious...? Thank you for pointing that out, Lucille!

Aw geez... on any given Friday, I could head down to the local VA my damned self, and assemble a poll of 170 different vets that would result in vastly differing opinions.

:puke:

[saigon68]

27. Yes Jen Let's ask 170 Vets here!!!

"BRING IT ON" CHIMPY-----

[peterh]

49. must’ve been these vets that were polled….

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040603-9999-1n3seals.html

War against terror gives former SEALs the chance to resurrect their skills

Some SEALs left the Navy in the late 1990s, frustrated in part because no major conflict since Vietnam had tapped their abilities or their patriotic fervor. There was a shortfall of 300 men at one point because of poor retention. SEALs trained and trained and trained and for what?

Then came 9/11.

"Some people want to paint these guys as mercenaries, but that's not the case," said one SEAL, who declined to be named because he is on active duty.

He left the SEALs earlier but rejoined after the terrorist attacks. "They miss it. And they're fired up for this fight."




I graduated from their diving program back in `73….they be a different breed…enjoyable individuals, but different….

[Beacho]

20. Hell, the vets answering on this thread

are just as representative as this *koff* 'poll' of 170, which is statistically meaningless.

Lots of gymnastics to get a 'vets are for Bush' headline.

[saigon68]

26. The chimpanzee can KISS MY ASS

Not even mY Tombstone would vote for that AWOL BASTARD

[DFWJock]

22. Bush

is happy to have the chickenhawk vote locked up.

[struggle4progress]

23. Veterans Claim Budget Cuts Hurt Them

A group of angry veterans, including a North Little Rock man who served with Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Sen. John Kerry during the Vietnam War, said Thursday that President Bush is not keeping his promises to men and women who serve the country in times of war.

In particular, the group charged that a Bush administration plan to cut $910 million in vital health care services after the 2004 election will hurt thousands of veterans in Arkansas.

“These cuts affect veterans’ health care, their prescriptions, their doctors’ visits — all the things that go along with keeping the nation’s promise to those who fought in wars and defended the Constitution,” said Navy veteran Fred Short, who served on a Vietnam combat swift boat with Kerry in 1969.
<snip>

Short said that recent media reports indicate that a Bush budget proposal for 2005-2006 will slash $9 million for veterans’ programs in Arkansas, meaning that some of the state’s nearly 270,000 war heroes could go without vital health services.

http://www.swtimes.com/archive/2004/June/04/news/veterans.html

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. They didn't call Camp Pendleton nor Balboa Naval station

I am at both bases regularly and have not heard one kind word about Bush

[Aunt Anti-bush]

28. Bullshit.

Excuse my language, but I simply don't buy it. If at this point, with all of the Bush scandals that are coming out, anyone says they support Bush they are either illiterate or just completely ignorant. I personally think our nation's vets are smarter than that!

[bain_sidhe]

29. Key question: what % of vets voted for Bush in 2000?

Anybody know? Although this small of a sample isn't really statistically significant, it would still be useful to know the "flip rate" between vets that voted * in 2000 that will vote for Kerry - each percentage is one away from * and one added to Kerry. We don't have to get ALL the vets, or even a majority of them... just enough that, when added to Kerry's other votes, flip the majority of the TOTAL vote to Kerry.

[ps1074]

30. okay, let's summon up - only veterans vote included

WAS IRAQ WAR WORTH COSTS? NO - 55%

WAS U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ A MISTAKE? YES - 50%

U.S. TROOPS SHOULD: Turn control over to Iraqis now - 49%

DOES BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAVE CLEAR PLAN FOR 6/30 HANDOVER? - NO - 63%

WHO SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE? - Higher level military - 57%

WAS ABUSE JUSTIFIED? - NO - 74%

VOTE CHOICE 2004: KERRY VS. BUSH
BUSH - 54%
KERRY - 40%

.......................................................

Just doesn't make any sense, does it? Something is wrong here. I mean veterans are much more critical with the administration and YET they will vote Bush over Kerry? Gimme a break...

[Rebellious Republican]

31. CBS did not ask this Vet, they must have had a special poll at

Rolling Thunder! Those results still did not bode well for Bush, given the demograhics of the poll.

Hand Saaalute, ready, to!

[cosmokramer]

33. All the more reason to put Clark on the ticket.

[ElectroPrincess]

35. Not a "clean" survey

Many of these "so called" polls don't tell us the qualifiers:

1) many of them dismiss - do NOT include the Women Veterans (re: Bill Schnider, CNN *scientific* Poll);

2) are these scientific pollsters balancing the sampling numbers for age and service time?

Answer: Show me the criteria?!? (Are these folks representative of anyBODY who answers a telephone survey and claims to be a military vet? Damn! That's far from a representative sample of the population.) <curtsy>

On edit: Me? No way do I answer polling questions - especially when they most often call during dinnertime :-).

This is more water-carring for BushCo.
Take these polls with a large grain of salt.

; )

[ConsAreLiars]

34. 170 sampled - margin of error is plus/minus 7,5%

For any population larger than 50,000.

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html

In other words, somebody is using meaningless numbers. A comparison to earlier poll results might be suggestive at best, but this is just silly.

[wellst0nev0ter]

56. You Need A Percentage Difference Of 17%

For the bullshit CBS poll to be statistically significant.

[steely]

37. I don't think the numbers are that far off...

...to brand vets as "misinformed" or favoring *. I should point out that I am a vet, and the responses do parallel the non-vet poll respondents.

If we had some better demographic information on the vets, like age, income, education, ...that'd be cool.

The headline is misleading.

Most of the more fervent supporters of * that I know weren't ever in the military - they're the ones that bug me the most.

Find a vet that's used the VA hospital system, and ask him/her how much he supports the chimpster.

[steely]

38. Must've polled Lyndie England's neighborhood.

eom

[PATRICK]

39. out of 170

there are an awful lot of varieties of veterans. If this was taken near Memorial Day at American legion picnics it can't be possibly made to look good for Bush in any way.

When you skew the headlines the most scientific poll falls into the category of abused intelligence.

[LittleApple81]

40. Randi Rhodes making fun of this poll:

Read all the different questions and % responses for all and veterans. She is saying: why the title, it makes no sense.

[Hotler]

41. A lot of vets just plain dislike democrats because

democrats always cut military spending. That from my best friend through my youth who is a lifer in the army going on 20 plus years. He's close to MI and they feel they're doing a good job over there. He says south Korea is in a dither because of our mass pull out. I said hey, I'm a democrat he said well, not you.

[ElectroPrincess]

43. Not true : (

"democrats always cut military spending"

Tell your friend he's mistaken. This coming from the Daughter of a Retired Army Father, a Former Active duty MI Soldier, and the wife of a Retired US Marine. That's another "Republican Noise Machine" lie.

On edit: Qualification = Democrats often cut useless weapon systems and other "pork" pentagon sponsored private contracts, but do NOT choose to cut military pay or veteran's benefits.

[Hotler]

50. I hear ya. I know better.

I couldn't belive he'd make such a blanket statement.

[ElectroPrincess]

52. May be the right wing has misled our AD and youth

I served during the Reagan Era (early to mid 80s) and I was profoundly misinformed ... I loved Ronnie and all the toys and "pork" in the name of increased Military Budget for more "toys."

Truth be told, it was only after I resigned my commission and reflected on my true values in life that I started to think more humanistic and switch my political party from Republican <shriek> to Democrat.

I can understand how young people can be enchanted by the comradarie. <sp?> If your friend is open-minded enough to try and understand your side, there's a good chance, that in a few years, he may alter his views to be more in line to the moderate Republicans that we can respect.

*On edit: Perhaps a few years post military service your friend will rethink his politics. After re-reading your post, I now realize that your friend is no longer "in his youth." Still, there's hope = serving on AD can artificially influence one's political beliefs to the right, i.e., with the notable exception of our present military troops recently put on "stop loss." That sucks pondwater. :P

[Kool Kitty]

47. Your best friend sounds sadly misinformed.

Enlighten him.

[Career Prole]

65. Tell your friend I said vets who'd vote in favor of their wallet

over the good of the nation would be republicans in any walk of life. His viewpoint doesn't represent me or the hundreds of vets I know.

[ecoalex]

46. Poor Vets suffer from mal allegiance

How can you support lowering pay, medical benes, and housing for the military , vets? The brainwashing is deep , Too bad.

[MrMonk]

48. Vets favor Bush

They just hate everything he's done.

[jeff5]

51. It Will be Interesting to See

how the Active vote goes. I wonder how many votes Bush* will get from troops involuntarily extended under the various "stop-loss" orders??

The Vets I know, almost to a man, deplore not only what they've done to our Country, but also to our Army.

[struggle4progress]

53. Former Navy secretary campaigns for Kerry

Former Navy Secretary John Dalton joined New Hampshire veterans Friday in their push to attract 1 million current and former soldiers to Democrat John Kerry's presidential campaign.
<snip>

"There's no better test of whether someone is committed to the defense of the country than whether they're willing to put their life on the line on the battlefield in defending it. John Kerry did that," Dalton said.
<snip>

At a rally in Minneapolis, Kerry continued his criticisms that under Bush veterans aren't getting the medical and other federal services they earned. In New Hampshire, his supporters contrasted Kerry's Vietnam service with Bush's stateside service in the Texas Air National Guard.

"When you compare John Kerry's record, his distinguished military career, where he would never leave anyone behind, to what George Bush did during Vietnam, there is no comparison as to who you'd want to be in a foxhole with," said Bill Shaheen, a veteran and chairman of Kerry's state campaign. "If you want to know where someone's going you ask yourself where they've been."
<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/06/04/former_navy_secretary_campaigns_for_kerry/

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. How many Republican veterans did they ask?

[InformedSource]

55. This one doesn't. I hate stories like this.

Are they talking about Gulf War vets? Granada and Panama vets? Vietnam Vets? Korean War vets? All those 80 year old WWII vets like my father? I don't believe "vets" can be all lumped together like that. This factoid is meaningless.

[VLC98]

57. I am sorry to report that....

the local VFW has "Bush Cheney" & "Support the President" placards out front, as well as one for the repuke contender for governor. I just don't understand it.

[moondust]

58. Nobody ever said that

military service makes you smarter.

[PurityOfEssence]

59. I'd like to see a poll of "Combat Veterans"

Somehow I don't think they're as hopped-up about this war stuff.

[saigon68]

60. You got that right

The REMF'S may love Bush-- but very few people I know, who have seen tracers whip by their heads, are impressed by these Phony Wannabee Heros !!!!!!!!!!!!

[2Design]

61. Must not need benfits or need anything else from *

[goforit]

63. I guess they would jump off a bridge for this guy even when he's wrong.

A sad portrait.

[leesa]

64. Isn't the point that most people think it's going badly??

[dArKeR]

66. CBS bias proved which slanted this poll. Proof here:

CBS 'Whore' Evening News - 'Memorial Day, Bush hoping to capture the
veteran vote while it's possible that the veterans may shun Kerry because of his protesting the war when he returned.' (nearly a direct quote Monday May 31, 2004).

If this isn't blatant bias, slander, conspiratorial racketeering to defraud American citizens on public airways and 100% provable in court than you can spank me!

1. CBS forgot to mention Bush didn't even go to Vietnam which I'd bet 80% of the American public don't know. If I took a scientific poll I bet it would come out 80% believe Bush fought in Vietnam.

2. CBS forgot to air the claims that Bush is embroiled in a scandal in which any detailed investigation would show Bush was let out of service by his father's illegal and immoral actions.

3A. I believe a Special Prosecutor would prove aWol never actually flew a jet solo and he NEVER even passed any of the series of pilots exams to receive a pilot's license. (Has anyone ever seen aWol's Pilot Log Book? Where are the instructors signatures?

3B. I am one of the most athletic people in America. I have the trophies and ribbons to prove it. I've played team sports and individual sports. My balance is that of a Master. I graduated from college with a double major 3.4. Went to work in a tough job. Started Student Pilot training out of San Jose International Airport. I'm telling ya, it's not that easy flying! I flew a Cessna 172 and never solo. I never felt comfortable enough even in a plane that could lose the engine but still easily glide to a landing. The classroom work was not prohibative but took some serious concentration and calculations. Judging from aWol courses, I don't think he ever took any mathematics. I honestly don't believe he ever passed a pilot's exam. I don't believe he ever flew solo. I can feel this in my bones.

(Hey, I only watch about 2 minutes of TV a day, not counting a Hockey game or CSPAN. And everytime I do watch, 2 minutes, I see some obviously bias against the Democrats on CBS, NBC, ABC, CNBC, or CNN.)

---------------------

Confirmed by other DUers here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1698740

[Kimber Scott]

67. I'm a Vet and I don't favor Bush.

Seems like the vets in the poll don't "favor" Bush, either.

[Skittles]

68. this vet doesn't support that asshole either

nt

[crossroads]

69. Freaking lies and bad press!

I got 2 emails from some con. friends with that phony pic of Kerry and Fonda sitting together eating ice cream or something. I found it was a phoney on Urban Legends and sent it back with the story, but shit like that hurts. They remember the pic and not the other message that it was faked! The damage was done cause it was sent to God knows how many people all over the web. What ya gonna do?
:shrug:

[lebkuchen]

70. Vets are scratching and clawing to get out of the military

The Stars and Stripes morale poll, which stated that nearly 50% would not be reenlisting has turned out to be true, if not an understatement. Stop-loss, and its extension, is testament to that.

Incidently, overseas bases are going all out to ensure that the military vote arrives on time. They are ensuring that ballots are received early and returned by Oct. 11 (if I recall the radio announcement details correctly).

[leftofthedial]

71. you HAVE to be shitting me

this drastically lowers my opinion of our vets.

[lebkuchen]

72. It's not true.

And spouses have about-faced on Bush as well.