Cuba: Reagan Should Never Have Been Born

[peterh]

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040607/API/406070868

Cuba harshly criticized former President Ronald Reagan and his policies on Monday, saying he should "never have been born."

In the first reaction to Reagan's death from the communist government, Radio Reloj said:

"As forgetful and irresponsible as he was, he forgot to take his worst works to the grave," the government radio station said.

"He, who never should have been born, has died," the radio said.

The statement did not mention Cuba's relationship with the United States under Reagan, a staunch foe of communism.

It also did not mention Reagan's decision to order U.S. forces to invade the tiny Caribbean country of Grenada on Oct. 25, 1983, because Washington feared the island had grown too close to Cuba.





Hmmm….I think they should’ve just abstained on this one…Kerry has been open to the idea of opening up travel to the island….that statement did nothing to enhance it….

[Momgonepostal]

1. Castro has made fun of * before an audience

Cuba isn't in a "suck up to prominent US Republicans" mood these days.

[forgethell]

2. I don't know about Ronnie,

but it would certainly have been better if Castro had never been born. God should just have sent him straight to hell without inflicting him upon the world. What an ass-hole he is.

[TahitiNut]

5. Yeah, Batista was such a fine person.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[forgethell]

14. He was an evil slug, but

how does that make Castro any better? Please explain your logic, because it seems to be way too nuanced for me.

[JI7]

16. Castro is no saint, but i think he is a lot better than Batista was

[forgethell]

23. But we were talking

about Cuba's slurs on Ronald Reagan, who also was no saint, but was much better than Castro, or any Communist monster.

So, please explain how mentioning Batista is a valid criticism. It is, in fact, a diversion.

[Mika]

25. Radio Reloj is the source for this commentary, not Castro

Why are you bringing up Castro when he didn't make this comment?


Mentioning Castro is, in fact, a distraction.

[forgethell]

26. I quote from the article,

Cuba harshly criticized former President Ronald Reagan and his policies on Monday, saying he should "never have been born."

In the first reaction to Reagan's death from the communist government, Radio Reloj said:

Cuba is totally run by Castro. do you honestly think that this statement was made without his explicit approval? Because if you do, I don't know what else I can say.

[maxpower]

31. Castro

Why is he such a "monster". I would take him over *.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Odd, isn't it?

Just one minute ago Rush Limbaugh referred to this remark and said "you've got to love those communists."

As unbelievably stupid and preposterous as he is, even HE didn't think to claim Fidel Castro is responsible for everything everyone in Cuba says, or does.

This has to remind a person of the accusations certain backwards Miamians made claiming Fidel Castro had trained the sharks to attack swimmers and sent them to Florida to put a dent in Florida's tourist industry several years ago.

[forgethell]

29. Right then,

but nobody would do something they thought he would disapprove of. In any event, that's not the point. The point is Castro is a much worse gentleman than is RR. Now is you want to disagree on that statement, go right ahead.

:)

[Minstrel Boy]

30. You're entitled to your opinion, and

Nelson Mandela's entitled to his:

"The real truth is that the west supported apartheid; they supplied it with technology, countless billions in investments, and vast quantities of arms; and they also gave it political support. No, imperialism did not break ties with apartheid, it did not blockade apartheid; imperialism maintained and continues to maintain excellent relations with apartheid. It was Cuba that had to be blockaded, Cuba where the vestiges of apartheid -- that is, racial discrimination -- disappeared a long time ago. Cuba had to be blockaded as punishment for its revolution, as punishment for its social justice -- but never apartheid.

"We come here with a sense of great debt that is owed to the people of Cuba. What other country can point to a record of greater selflessness than Cuba has displayed in its relations with Africa?

"Where is the country that has sought Cuban help and has had it refused?

"How many countries under threat from imperialism or struggling for national liberation have been able to count on Cuban support?"
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1991/38/38p21b.htm

[forgethell]

33. Well, yes, Mr. Madela is

entitled to his opinion. Still, Cuba was never punished for its "social justice", but for the injustices of its regime. As for apartheid, well, it's gone now. Cuba remains a festering sore.

But you keep changing the subject. Is Fidel a monster, or is he not. True or False. Yes or No. I vote that he is, not for any good that he has done, but for the evil. The murders and imprisonments.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. Is Fidel a monster?

No he's not. Is that clear enough?

Have you been to Cuba?

Silly question. You can't.

Why not join the world, rather than try to rule it?

[maxpower]

38. Exactly

I tend to think he stopped the rape of his country from the multi national corporations that were exploiting it.

[forgethell]

40. Maybe,

but the cure was worse than the disease.

[maxpower]

41. I doubt that

Look at having a leader in bed with corporate america is doing to this country.

[forgethell]

42. Castro died, and went

to heaven. When he got to the pearly gates, St. Peter was out of the office, so he walks in, puts down his bags and waits. When St. Peter arrives, he takes one look at Fidel, and says, "Sorry, you've got to go to the Other Place." Fidel shrugs, turns around, and walks down to Hell.

When he gets there, Satan is waiting. "Fidel, Mi amigo. we've been waiting for you. Big Party tonight. C'mon, lets get you to your room and get freshened up. girls, booze, and cigars tonite." Fidel suddenly realizes he left his bags at St. Peter's. "No problem," says Satan, " I'll send some of the boys to get them for you. C'mon."

So Satan sends two young demons to the pearly gates to fetch Fidel's bags. When they get there, though, the gates are closed, and no one answers the bell.

"what are we going to do?" says the first demon. "The boss ain't gonna like this at all."

The second demon thinks hard, then answers, "Look, you stand on my shoulders, and I'll climb up over the wall, then pull you up. We'll get the bags, throw them over the wall, and come back the same way."

so that's what they did. As they were climbing over the wall, two angels walk by and see them. They watch until they drop over the other side, then one angel turns to the other and says, "That damn Castro. He hasn't been in Hell an hour, and already we've got refugees."

So, I tell you what. I didn't vote for * in 2000; I'm not going to vote for him this year. the USA is taking a wrong turn, no doubt. But until we have more people risking their lives to get into Cuba from the USA than they other way around, I'll take my chances with the corporate whores. But, hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Cheers

[forgethell]

39. It is not me that

wants to rule the world. What does that last comment mean? Sounds like a typical slur to shut off debate to me. However, you answered my qustion straight-forwardly enough. I disagree. Castro belongs in Hell with Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Stalin, in my opinion. At least we know where we stand. Thank you.

[Mika]

43. Your "argument " stands on quicksand

Reagan ran poor families and the sick homeless into the streets.

Reagan stripped the social safety net and infrastructure in the US, while the Cuban government created high quality infrastructure where one never existed before.


Learn from Cuba
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong. The Bank has insisted for the past decade that improving the lives of the poor was its core mission.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

________




Prior to the 1959 Cuban revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

b Even for most city dwellers, life was not all that rosy.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.

[forgethell]

45. OK, let's say that every word

is true, and none of it is Cuban propaganda. Does this excuse Fidel's murders and imprisonment of dissendents and other innocent parties? Yes or No?

I am not arguing that FC didn't do some good things. I am arguing that he is a evil man who has done very many bad things. Even the 19th century robber barons were great philanthropists. But they mad their money by screwing the life out of their workers.

Fidel was a monster.

[Mika]

3. Read what Kerry says. He doesn't say he will open up travel.

Not according to him.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm


He will return policy to year 2000 & the failed CANF/ Clinton policy (limited travel) that exists right now (June 30th is the date that the new _Bush* restrictions, that Kerry is lamenting, will take effect).

He {Kerry} embraced the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and support for dissidents

Kerry is trying to reap rewards for staying the same old failed course, while some Dems feign that its some kind of big step.



Time to end the cold war commiephobic myths about Cuba. That's not Cuba NOW. Tear down the wall Mr Kerry! .. and have the balls to say it, please.


Lifting the US travel sanctions on Americans to allow open and unencumbered travel would do so much to dispel the many false myths about Cuba as it is right now, but instead, Kerry wants to limit American's travel to Cuba to allow only "political travel".

If Kerry is to be taken seriously when he says,

``Instead, I will work to craft a policy toward Cuba that our allies can join and support.''

.. then, instead of supporting sanctions, he should openly call for an end of all forms of the US sanctions on Cuba, as the UN has overwhelmingly voted to condemn the US sanctions each and every year.


Here's the DU thread on that "big move" by Kerry

---

Kerry policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

[Mika]

8. Kerry supports limited travel

From the Miami Herald
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

He said Friday, though, that he would lift only the ban on Cuba travel that is not ''pure tourism,''

Its still a general travel ban on US citizens.

He said Friday, though, that he would lift only the ban on Cuba travel that is not ''pure tourism,'' suggesting that democracy efforts in Poland, Russia and China were aided by similar ``political travel.''

Political travel? :wtf:



Kerry says this,

Kerry said he would also lift the restriction on remittances to allow gifts to ''households and humanitarian institutions.'' Bush has restricted gifts to only ''immediate family members,'' but Kerry said the money can be a ''powerful tool'' to help Cubans on the island start small businesses ``and thereby gain a measure of autonomy.''

Then he says this...

`I think you want to begin a process that engages on a principled, measurable goal rather than just going to the Hemingway bar somewhere and spending some money.''

Does this make any sense? I thought that he wants to encourage small businesses.. like the Hemmingway bars and such in Cuba, which is a tourism economy.



A turd by another name is still a turd.

Kerry policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots



Mr. Kerry, tear down the wall!

[peterh]

9. Thanks for the clarification….eom

.

[Imperialism Inc.]

20. My god, how many other things are they going to sneak in

on June 30th?

An article the other night was talking about US troops pulling out of Haiti on June 30th. Bush and Co are pure slime.

[TahitiNut]

4. There're a LOT of folks over 32 years old ....

... that Roe v. Wade would've weeded out. :shrug:

The number of 'coerced' marriages boggles the mind. :eyes:

[yellowcanine]

6. Gee they should tell us what they really think of him. Couldn't they

just settle for him to never have been elected governor or president? That would have been good enough for me.

[0rganism]

12. But he made all those lousy movies...

...and then he ratfucked the Screen Actors' Guild during the McCarthy hearings. Then he turned into a full-time spokesman for Barry Goldwater and General Electric. Gotta admit, the Cubans have a point.

[TankLV]

7. Nothing like painting a target on oneself and yelling "come get me"!

Especially with the insane drunk coke-snorting paraniod egotistical bunkerboy crew in charge!

As true as it may be, he is really taunting a crazyman/bully.

Not too smart.

But I love it!

[Cocoa]

10. this is a good movie concept

It's a Reaganful Life.

[Just Me]

11. Maybe, some things are just better left unsaid.

Passions sometimes obstruct common sense. Being inciteful at an untimely hour,...isn't helpful.

[rfkrocks]

13. Please-no old fart dictators giving advice-

The Cuban people are wonderful and deserve better than this egomaniac-Mr Casto there is a mausoleum waiting for you

[Laughing Mirror]

15. Funny how easy it is to call the Saddams and Pol Pots of this world

murderous brutal dictators and so on, but how a relatively bland statement such as Radio Reloj has made about our own muderous son-of-a-bitch, now dead, people take such offense.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Thanks for pointing out Radio Reloj is the source for this commentary

Apparently a poster or two didn't take the time to read the article and assumed everything which comes from Cuba comes directly from the mouth of Fidel Castro.

There are a lot of people involved in operating that station, and not one of them is Fidel Castro.

[Vladimir]

21. Great article on St. Ronnie

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1233816,00.html

In some crude forms of therapy the patient is confronted with a re-enactment of the trauma that caused his collapse. Even so, I don't think I'll be watching Ronald Reagan's state funeral as Margaret Thatcher's taped tribute is played. It'll be too painful. I'll go and sit on broken glass for a while instead.

That, for me, was a bad decade - a decade in which rightwing precepts were dominant and the left was in full and abject retreat. But perhaps, along with others, I should reassess the Reagan legacy. If Gerhard Schröder and Mikhail Gorbachev can say what a fabulous contribution the old actor made to freedom, it may be time to forget jokes like, "My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you that I have signed legislation to outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

Because Reagan didn't start bombing in five minutes. He didn't even actually build Star Wars. Following the deployment of Cruise and Pershing missiles, he then - quite unexpectedly - engaged in a process of arms limitation and tension reduction that made it safe for Gorbachev to pursue a reform programme in the Soviet Union. That's not enough to get him chiselled into Mount Rushmore, but it's a damn sight more than I gave him credit for at the time.

What isn't so easy to forgive is the Reagan Doctrine, sometimes known as Third World Rollback. Rollback was the American end of the proxy war fought between the two superpowers for power and influence in the developing world. The basis was childishly simple: my enemy's enemy is my friend.

[justjones]

18. Damn. That's harsh. n/t

[daleo]

19. Cubans are entitled to their opinions

It is ludicrous to think that Bushco would invade a country over a relatively innocuous comment like this (isn't it?). Not everyone in the world idolized St. Ronnie. Frankly, I think tens of millions, at least, would have been better off if he had never came to power. I personally don't take the "Reagan won the Cold War" stuff seriously. I am inclined to think the Soviet Union would have gone through its transformation earlier, had a less threatening U.S. regime (say Carter) been in power.

My memories of Reagan days are mostly of a long period of unemployment, followed by a long period of working for lousy wages (I am in Canada, but the Reagan economy trickled all over the world).

And the Grenada invasion was the precedent for invading third world countries for phony political purposes, which has now culminated in the Iraq disaster.

[jmowreader]

27. Considering what the countries he invaded did...

Bush wouldn't think twice about invading a country just because someone there got on the radio and said the world would have been better off with no Ronald Reagan. They better all go straight to church and thank God, Jesus and the Blessed Virgin that Bush is already using the whole army.

Afghanistan got invaded because it had the temerity to demand money before it would allow Amoco to build a natural gas pipeline across it.

Iraq got invaded because Bush's oil was under Saddam's dirt.

And you know the Soviet Union would have transformed earlier if the United States would have been the least bit supportive. That "evil empire, evil empire" shit didn't help matters one whit.

[gator_in_Ontario]

34. trickle-down economics

Like it or not, the US has an effect on the rest of the world.
I am married to a Canadian, so the 48th parallel means nothing to me. Just some line rich white men drew on the planet in the distant past.
And I am glad his suffering is over. He suffered enough.

My memories of the reagan years:

free cheese: we called it "reagan cheese". Once a month we got a 'free' 5 lb. block of cheese. It damn near got us through the month, too!

a protest: I was called all kinds of names, drowned out and actually spit on, while protesting at one of his appearances.

his face: I remember him looking so fake...too much make-up. He looked like the puppet that he was.

losing my student loan

those are my memories of reagan

[Judi Lynn]

22. He overturned Carter's loosened travel restrictions

Mr. BigDeal, playing God:

Fervent anti-communism was Ronald Reagan's political calling card, and he quickly adopted a confrontational stance toward Cuba. His administration reinstated the restrictions on travel to Cuba that Carter had loosened, and created Radio Marti, a U.S.-financed station that beamed propaganda broadcasts at the island. (It was named, ironically, after 19th-century Cuban rebel leader Jose Marti, who was a vehement opponent of a U.S. takeover of Cuba.)

Reagan also became the first U.S. president to actively court conservative Cuban-Americans. In 1983, he gave a speech in Miami in which he proclaimed that "we will not permit the Soviets and their henchmen in Havana to deprive others of their freedom ... someday, Cuba will be free." Cuban-American activists responded by holding a telethon that raised $200,000 for Reagan's re-election campaign. (It could not accept the money, as it turned out, for legal reasons.)
(snip/...)

http://times.discovery.com/convergence/kennedycastro/presidents/presidents6.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who can learn that José Marti opposed U.S. behavior as he did, and admire a bunch of rightwingers who think it's cool to name their rightwing propaganda radio (taxpayer supported) station after him?

Goodlordalmighty. What a bunch of vicious clowns.

[Mika]

24. Another Reagan legacy - the terrorist org CANF

THE CUBA OBSESSION
by Jane Franklin
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JBFranklins/canf.htm

The nexus of CIA, business, and politics made Mas a valuable instrument for the Reagan Administration when it took over the White House in 1981. Reagan's first National Security Adviser, Richard Allen, recognized right-wing Cuban Americans as natural allies in the escalating global war against communism. Allen was instrumental in creating the Cuban American National Foundation, a tax-exempt organization that provided Mas his springboard to national and international politics. Other founders fell away as Mas shaped CANF to fit the White House agenda. In return, the Reagan-Bush regime anointed him virtual president of the Cuban exile community, designating him the liberator who would "return democracy" to Cuba.

Assisted by the late Bernard Barnett, a major force in the Israeli lobby--the American Israel Public Affairs Committee or AIPAC--CANF set up its own PAC, Free Cuba, and the Cuban American Foundation, a lobbying arm for dispensing information and money. With White House support and his friendship with then-Vice President Bush's son Jeb, a Dade County resident, Mas could persuade Cuban Americans that he was their best voice in Washington. He could then parlay that role into more influence in Washington for a policy of continuing economic and political war against Cuba. CANF opposes all negotiations or indeed any contact with Cuba.

Bush's new Cuba policy is pure CANF.


But, many pandering Dems played right along for campaign money,

Why do Democratic political leaders like Bradley, Graham, Torricelli and even the President do the bidding of this man? Some people answer that Mas is a multimillionaire power broker whose organization donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to politicians. For example, in April 1992, with his Presidential campaign grasping for money, Governor Clinton, in what The Boston Globe called "a Faustian bargain," attended a CANF-sponsored fund-raiser in Miami's Little Havana and announced to cheers, "I have read the Torricelli-Graham bill and I like it." He also declared that the Bush Administration "has missed a big opportunity to put the hammer down on Fidel Castro and Cuba." Clinton was rewarded with $125,000 and received an additional $150,000 at another CANF-sponsored event the same day in Coral Gables. Just before a key vote on the bill last September, Presidential candidate Clinton issued a press statement urging Congress to vote for it. Clinton's fee of $275,000 was cheap, merely half the $550,000 given by Cuban Americans to President Bush on October 23, the day he went to south Florida to sign the Cuban Democracy Act into law.

CANF founder and Clinton fundraiser Jorge Mas Canosa & Bill Clinton

[BayCityProgressive]

32. Raegan

murdered and destroyed many Cubans lives. I would say the same thing,.

[Garcia]

36. Cubano Pride

Cuba is GREAT..I love that country it's beautiful.

[guajira]

37. Garcia, you are so right!!

Cuba is beautiful and I too love the country and its people.

Too bad Americans can't visit there, thanks to Miami Batistianos and the US politicians who pander to them!

[Solidarity]

44. I Hope Fidel Agrees

I hope Fidel Castro agrees with the radio station commentary.

I'm sure most Cuban people do. The ones that actually live in Cuba.