John Kerry joins Latham attack (Aust)

[anakie]

what do y'all think about this

"The campaign of the Democratic candidate for the US presidency, John Kerry, has for the first time rejected Mark Latham's plan to recall Australian troops from Iraq by Christmas, leaving the Labor leader without support for the policy in America's political mainstream.

James Rubin, a foreign policy adviser to Senator Kerry, told the Herald in Washington: "John Kerry has been very clear that regardless of what you think about how we got here, here we are. And failure is not an option in Iraq. And the prospect of success in Iraq will be improved by maintaining a substantial contribution from friends and allies, including Australia.

"When the Spanish Government announced its intention to pull out, he was critical of that. So he would be critical of any government's failure to recognise the stakes in Iraq, the need to succeed there, no matter how sympathetic he might be to concerns about how America got to this point."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/13/1087065032966.html?oneclick=true

[Nlighten1]

1. Kerry is staying in his hamster cage.

Someone feed him some spine please.

[bahrbearian]

7. Hamster cage, good one!

Kerry has yet to have an original idea !

[Nlighten1]

10. I lifted it from a NYT piece on Kerry.

Who ever the author of the piece was said that Kerry was living in a "hamster cage".

[mazzarro]

8. I think Kerry and all the "stay the course" gang will live to regret

their clamor for this course of action. They have refused to think-outside-the-box for political reasons. I do think that there are other courses of action that will achieve a stable albeit non-subservient Iraq. I believe that what the "stay the course" gang are more interested in is a subservient Iraq with US military bases plastered all over the place; and that will keep Iraq in perpetual warfare just like Israel found itself in Lebanon.
Look at the dire predictions the hawks made about the Vietnam and the domino theory which afterall never materialized even after the triumph of North Vietnam.

[Nlighten1]

12. I agree completely...

In another thread a few weeks ago I made this same comments to a rabid Kerry supporter. Vietnam is doing fine today and we are establishing relations with them again. AND we probably could have established relations with them much sooner if it weren't for the knuckleheads wanting to keep up appearances.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. Kerry's right.

Iraq needs all the help it can get. We cannot just cut it loose. That would be irresponsible.

I just posted in GD re: this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1782070

[Kagemusha]

4. Then he can speak for himself. And for his own country.

Speaking for Australia is where it gets real iffy.

[gulliver]

5. Absolutely.

Kerry wants to President of the United States. Bush put us in an unnecessary war, and it looks like a failure (no WMDs to remove, no prospect of shining temple of democracy). However, that doesn't mean we don't need help stabilizing Iraq. I don't blame Latham for wanting to remove Aussie troops, but Kerry would be wrong to support that.

[cyclezealot]

11. No one is cutting and running.

We destroyed all authority in Iraq...The sooner we turn it over to international forces that don't have special interests in Iraq's oil, is when the situation has a chance to simmer down..Our presence is what is the irritant.
UN in,US out. Australia, Denmark realize that and get out of the way, maybe there is a chance for stablilizing forces make progress.We have killed so many innocent family members is reckless actions, we will never be respected.
get rid of all those American flags which is like red to a bull..Get in the UN blue.

[Nlighten1]

13. With the kind of help we are giving them...

they may not survive it. Kerry is NOT right, we need to pull out and let the Iraqis rebuild their country.

Then we Americans need to rebuild OUR country. Starting by putting these idiots who started and authorized this illegal war in prison where they belong.

[leesa]

39. Getting the corporations to withdraw completely with all profits returned

might help.

[bvar22]

3. "A light at the end of the tunnel!"

"We must stay the Course!" shouted the Captain of the Titanic.

[readmylips]

6. Kerry is following bush's disaster....why

the fok vote for Kerry? Why change leaders in the middle of the disaster? If world leaders are not supporting bush/US in 'you broke it, you bought it,' world leaders are not going to come out in support of Kerry/US. I just don't see where Kerry is giving us any new policies to stop the train wreck. This pisses me off a lot.

[bemildred]

9. We need to elect Kerry in a landslide anyway,

and throw as many of those fuckers in Congress out as we
can, just to send them a message, regardless of what Kerry
does or says.

[Nlighten1]

16. And what exactly is that message?

If we throw out Bush in favor of Democrats that support Bush's war...what exactly does that accomplish?

Nothing that is what it accomplishes.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. Kerry supports 'Kerry's War', not Bush's

for lack of a better description.

[Nlighten1]

23. The difference is in name only...

exactly how will "Kerry's war" be any different?

[WillyT]

29. The Phrase 'Tar Baby' Comes To Mind, No ???

'Kerry's War' also sends a shiver up me timbers!

:puke:

[leQ]

37. by simply removing jr from the equation should have an enormous effect

i think the iraqis, the core of them who are 'anti-American' are really anti-bu$h, and once you remove him from the equation, maybe the anti-American sentiment will dwindle down to something a lot more manageable. it's only my $0.02 worth, but i can see it working, even though i have campaigned hard for our troops to come home, i realize that if they stay, then i'd rather have them under the leadership of kerry than continue there under jr.

[bemildred]

22. Congress, not Bush.

The message is listen to your constituents or you will be thrown out.
But the same message applies to pResidents, it's just that since
they are puppets anyway it carries less force that removing
Congressional incumbents in large numbers.

[Nlighten1]

24. Color me a cynic.

Nothing is going to change anytime soon. We need to reform the Democratic party or get a real viable third party to squash the Democrats.

And that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

[bemildred]

26. I agree with all of that.

But I still vote every election. It's your one unequivocal chance
to express your political wishes. And there is no more expressive
and gratifying result then when you remove some asshole who richly
deserves to return to private life. One has to take ones little
pleasures where on can, otherwise it's just a long gloomy ride for
a lefty in US politics.

[Nlighten1]

34. But...what if my political wishes aren't being represented?

What do I do then? Continue to vote for people who don't care about me anymore?

Choosing the lesser of two evils just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

[bemildred]

40. There are lots of small parties that need more support?

Green, libertarian, etc. If you have an asshole representing
you vote AGAINST HIM, i.e. vote for the guy most likely to
beat him. A new guy can't do much harm, and getting rid of the
evil you know comes first. New electees are disruptive as
such to existing political power, replace most of Congress
all at once and all sorts of things can happen.

[struggle4progress]

35. Well, if you really mean, what you should do ...

is start working hard building a third party at the local level, and supporting local third party candidates. No viable third party is going to emerge sui generis in a Presidential election.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

25. True. But then we must hold him accountable or else.....

I will not support his administration. If JK supports a long-term imperialistic occupation, then I cannot support his administration.

[bemildred]

27. Right on. That's one reason to force change Congress too. nt

[MoonRiver]

30. Well maybe you should just 'foking' vote for *.

But wait, maybe that's the point. :shrug:

[Toot]

38. Because he was one of many that gave Bush the right to invade Iraq...

and he doesn't want to look like a "flip flopper" now. This is the main reason why I didn't support Kerry in the primary, because of his vote in Iraq.

But, I'm still going to vote for Kerry in November, even though I still don't agree with him, because Bush sure as hell doen't need to be rewarded, for getting us into this damn war, by being reelected.

[progressivebydesign]

14. I think I miss Howard Dean, that's what I think. N/T

[goforit]

44. I would too........Even John McCain is a better Democrat!!!

[Catt03]

15. Kerry's statement for staying in Iraq

is not about troops and fighting a war.

It is about stabilizing the region, that Bush inflamed,with a well thought out and doable plan, a complete policy change and international cooperation.

I think it is a good idea and so very Democratic.

[Nlighten1]

19. Ahhh...but those were Bush's goal too...

And how exactly does Mr. Kerry expect to accomplish this stabilization? By bringing in foreign troops like Nato? The UN?

They have already made it clear that Iraq is too dangerous. So it would seem to me that Kerry is going to have to make Iraq safer before other countries will be willing to send their kids to die for America's vanity war.

[TankLV]

18. Try looking at it from another perspective:

Say anything to get elected.

1) Take away another issue from the repukes, to make Kerry seem less a boogie man to the neanderthals, then once elected, he's free to actually re-think the situation.

2) Apologize to the rest of the world for the war crimes of the previous administration.

3) Cancel the Hallibuton contracts.

4) Get the UN & the rest of the world involved BIG TIME by using the OPEN BIDDING of reconstruction contracts to EVERYONE BUT US companies.

5) And ease American Soldiers out of harms way by bringing them home gradually.

Sort of a repuke type of action - only in reverse, because this ome is based on justice and what is really right.

[bahrbearian]

31. Or tell the Truth like D.K. or Dean.

Don't bring up Mondale either, anybody can beat Chimpy.

[Pastiche423]

20. What's the difference in kerry and whistle ass, again?

Kerry is running to lose. I see no other explanation.

[goforit]

43. Skull n Boners are thicker than blood. We need Gore!!!!

Kerry is a phoney 24/7!!!

The Dems once again are being taken for a ride.

We need to wake up!!!

[the Kelly Gang]

21. it's only 850 soldiers..and half of those are in Jordon..beat-up !

[MoonRiver]

28. How could Kerry possibly support the pull out of another country's troops!

Give me a f'n break! That would be political suicide, because it would obviously put our troops in even graver danger than * has placed them in already. Australians have to make their own damn decisions independent of our Democratic presidential nominee, fer God's sake! If its citizens are so spineless and gutless that they need Kerry to hold their collective hand, then their democracy is as imperiled as our own. GROW UP AUSTRALIA!

:spank:

[Violet_Crumble]

45. How would it put US troops in even graver danger?

At the most, there's around 800 Australian troops, quite a few of whom are there to protect Australian diplomats and businesses. Any contribution has been a symbolic one, which Kerry and Bush are quite aware of, because the US more than anything doesn't want the Iraq debacle to be them on their own...

I think you've totally misunderstood the whole point of what's going on. We're not spineless and gutless. We just have a problem with US politicians involving themselves in our affairs...

btw, anyone concerned about the danger US troops are in would be supporting them being pulled out and replaced with an international force under the auspices of the UN, not the US....

Grow up, my arse! While I might have problems with a few of the ALP's policies, at least we have an opposition party that plays the role of opposing the government, especially on foreign policy matters...

Violet...

[MoonRiver]

47. I'm just saying, don't expect US to fight your battles right now.

We're on the verge of a fascist military takeover here. It's all we can do to survive ourselves. Kerry's got to win before he can turn this Iraq horror around. If he alienates the idiots who think * is "strong on defense" and is "winning the war on terra (lol)" he loses and we, plus the world, are stuck with dictator wannabe DimSon.

[struggle4progress]

32. Kerry's not attacking Latham.

Here's an interview link that appeared in another thread yesterday. Read the interview. Kerry's spokesman is sympathetic to Latham and to the idea that the US shouldn't meddle in the Australian election.

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2004/s1130884.htm

Armitage, especially, on the other hand, has made threatening noises directed against Latham. So have Bush and Powell.

I think the Kerry-bashers in this thread are ill-informed, at best.

[Tellurian]

33. Thats the only reason they're here. They love bashing Kerry...

Like they know more than he does!

[Violet_Crumble]

46. Kerry bashers?

D'uh. The interview as I recall was mainly in regard to the US/Australian alliance. While it's likely that the alliance wouldn't survive if Bush and his cronies remain in office, what Sherman was saying was that it wouldn't matter who the US President was, or who the Australian PM was, the alliance would remain intact. Personally, I think that's crap, given the threats and bullying over the past few days from the Bush regime....

I'm not a Kerry-basher, not unless anyone who utters the slightest criticism of him is automatically labelled a Kerry-basher. From what I've seen, US foreign policy under a Kerry administration would be one where there's little to no improvement on the current one, but if I'm wrong, I'm quite happy to read anything you've got to show me to prove me wrong on that...

Violet...

[Gloria]

36. Was it so pressing that he had to comment on Australia just now?

It just echoes what Bush/Cheney are doing. Howard is now ahead in the polls,by the way...

"Always an Echo" sounds like it could be Kerry's campaign theme....may be smart sometimes, but other times....why add to the perception unecessarily?

[stickdog]

41. Meet the new boss. (nt)

[goforit]

42. No Kerry is a Bush fan. Thats why Bush picked him to run with.

BUSH or Kerry............Policy stays the same!!!!!