'The student is gone; the master has arrived.' (another torture report)

[Barrett808]

'The student is gone; the master has arrived.'
by Dahr Jamail | Posted June 13, 2004 at 08:55 AM Baghdad time

...

Um Taha was detained for 4 months. She told me that while in Abu Ghraib she knew that many of the women in the prison were being raped.

She told of detainees who would hold their Qu’ran out of their cell bars in order to have some light to read with. “And when they did this,” she said, “soldiers would hit them on their arms.”

Um Taha added that soldiers were distributing Christian Bibles in Arabic to the teenage detainees, and that soldiers were forcing detainees to speak English to them.

...

She said that Lynddie England, the female American soldier made infamous in the widespread incriminating photos, was dancing around laughing while using a rubber glove to snap the detainees on their genitals. “The soldiers also made all the men lay on the ground face down, spread their legs, then men and women soldiers alike kicked the detainees between their legs,” Um Taha said quietly.

After pausing, she added, “I can still remember their screaming.”
(more)

http://blog.newstandardnews.net/iraqdispatches/archives/000599.html#more

[Catfight]

1. Did they get to be in Rush's fraternity? Did they pass the hazing rituals?

The sad thing is, most people don't think this is torture. What constitutes torture these days?

[DenverDem]

2. "What constitutes torture these days?"

Having a mind and watching network news programs.

[ElectroPrincess]

11. This disgusts me also ...

I forgot the name of the, I believe, Editor of Newsweek that was on CSPAN this morning but I wanted to figuratively slap him upside the head. Why? He commented that the prisoners were humiliated but not necessarily tortured, i.e., did not have their fingernails pulled out. Specifically he said, "There was no permanent damage." I strongly disagree with his assessment.

Although most of these Iraqi prisoners will not sport outward scares of torture, they will be highly prone to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, PTSD, that can afflict them for the rest of their life. Of course the Bush Administration will not address emotional trama because that seems too feminine and not fitting with their G.I. Joe vision of prisoner treatment standards.

I'm profoundly disappointed that parts of the Military Intelligence Branch that I proudly served in during the 1980s, seemingly has been taken over by sadistic criminals. All I can hope for is that the Democrats and moderate Republicans with true integrity in OUR CONGRESS search for the truth and stop this abhorrent behavior.

[Dover]

3. Hey, they were just 'blowing off steam'.

I'd like to blow off steam on Bushco in the same manner and see what they call it then.

[the Kelly Gang]

4. yes, Fox News is torture

[Tellurian]

5. Wait, we're just softening these people up to accept Christianity...

no big whoop! And thats why we're going to allow Christian soldiers in there to give these barbarians a chance to accept Jeebus as their savior. Our Christians soldiers will have ("my") special permission, don't wanna hear any dissenting voices now, because of these political events to cross Church and State lines and still maintain their non-exempt status with the IRS.

heh- God told me, it's the right thing to do-

[Joanne98]

6. I knew the fundies were involved in this

DISTRIBUTING CHRISTIAN BIBLES. Someone should ask that old Satanist, Pat Robertson, if he approves of rape and torture.

[AndyTiedye]

7. It's a New Edition of the Spanish Inquisition

except that the Spanish have bowed out this time.

Why do you THINK they have been randomly grabbing Iraqis off the street and torturing them?
They don't know anything useful to the military by its own admission,
yet they still don't release them.
They are handing out Bibles to the detainees and hitting them if they try to read the Koran.
The involvement of General Boykin, a raving Fundie who has frequently expressed his hatred of Islam.

END THE CRUSADE!!

[newyawker99]

8. Disgusting!

:puke:

[The Stranger]

9. Kick.

[struggle4progress]

14. kick

:kick:

[gottaB]

10. “I don’t care what the international lawyers say"

“I don’t care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some ass.”

The quote comes from Richard Clarke's book, Against All Enemies, page 25.

When, later in the discussion, Secretary Rumsfeld noted that international law allowed the use of force only to prevent future attacks and not for retribution, Bush nearly bit his head off. "No," the President yelled in the narrow conference room, "I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some ass."

Can you say "War Crimes President"?

[Mechatanketra]

12. You damn skippy.

One more time, for the cheap seats of the intellectual theatre (that'd be you, Chimp):

he {the President} shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed ... -- U.S.A. Constitution, Article II, Section 3.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land -- U.S.A. Constitution, Article VI

Where does international law come from? It comes from countries signing treaties. The Geneva Conventions, for instance, are a set of treaties America signed onto. By Article VI, they are no different than any other laws -- and by Article II, the President is duty-bound to uphold them.

When the President yells "I don't care about international law", he might as well be yelling "Impeach me, I'm not gonna do my job!"

[Tight_rope]

13. Disgusting! Fucking Savages! n/t

[dxbiker]

15. glad they at least survived it

and are getting the proper help they need.

Man, if she can still imagine the screaming of the detainees getting hit on the arm by the soldiers walking by or the screaming of having their genitals snapped with a glove or even those disgusting photos of them being naked and having sh$t rubbed over them. Could you only imagine the screaming of one getting their head cut off with a dull knife?
Man talk about the nightmares she would be having then!

[DrWeird]

16. Or getting electrocuted. US troops did that.

Or get killed by the US troops who sic a dog on you.

Did you see that photo? Where the US troops attack the naked guy with a dog, and in the next photo you see a big chunk of the guys leg lying on the floor? Did you see that one? How about the one with the guy beaten to death, and the US troops giving the camera a "thumbs up". Did you see that one? Who about the report where US troops raped the children of a detainee in order to get him to confess. Did you read that?

Yup, it turns out the US troops are just as bad as the muslim extremists.

Too bad.

Fucking savages.

[dxbiker]

18. I saw them all

Of course, I saw no one get killed nor did I see a dog bighting anyone. Nope I saw the someones you did. You can assume on lots of the pictures


Dont get me wrong,

initially I was outraged, disgusted embarrassed, now I don't care about it. I have seen too many other disgusting videos of torture and death put on our soldiers. This to me, makes our soldiers look like saints

[DrWeird]

20. Now you don't care about it.

Funny thing, I completely believe you.

[gratuitous]

22. Except the beheading happened months later

In which case, you might almost build a case for Berg's death being retaliatory.

But it still doesn't excuse what we've done to Iraqi civilian detainees by the dozens, of whom the Red Cross has estimate between 70% and 90% of whom were simply scooped up by our troops without cause. We're supposed to be the good guys; at least, that's what teevee tells me over and over again. So why are we torturing people whose country we invaded on a pretext, and who haven't done anything wrong to us?

[thebigidea]

24. Uh huh.

"I saw no one get killed"

So you missed the pics of the dead guy packed in ice who was beaten to death?

The one they snuck out of there by sticking him on a stretcher and pretending he was sick? They even hooked him up to an IV.

I wonder where the body is.

[Greyskye]

17. So in that case it's OK?

It could have been worse? Are you saying that this then justifies the actions? :puke: And could you please point me in the direction of the "proper help" that these people who have been tortured are getting? I seem to have missed that part...

[dxbiker]

19. there talking about

that is a good start. Better start than Berg got

[Dhalgren]

23. Yeah, you're a real Christian, aren't you?

I think that assholes who think like you do make me more sick than the gimpy president we have who can barely string three words together. You and those like you are why the US is going in the toilet. Be proud.

[thebigidea]

25. I can't believe we've gotten to the point where people excuse torture

incredible.

"Well, at least we don't cut their heads off! See, that makes us better!"

If you would've told me a few years back that we'd soon have a series of secret torture centers all over the globe where people are tortured/raped/sometimeskilled, and that most of our citizens would be blase about it... I'd say you were watching too many bad movies.

[Shopaholic]

27. I heard two jerks on the radio this morning

two local deejays talking about how they thought all of the photos and videos were faked. One said he didn't believe "for one minute that U.S. troops had tortured a single Iraqi!" I almost drove off the road listening to this drivel. One went on to say that he just thought it was impossible for a man to be raped. Yeah, I know, obviously these guys are too stupid to live and I should ignore them, but it's so very depressing to me that this is the kind of rhetoric we're up against in trying to get the average citizen of the U.S. to recognize what's really going on in Iraq.

[dxbiker]

21. no you missed nothing

I never said it could be worse, nor am I justifying any actions.
I am just not effected by it anymore.

I have seen so many other grotesque killings that this has no effect on me like it once did.

so really you are not missing anything.

[thebigidea]

26. so why does Berg's death bother you, then? What's special about that?

Or do you have it set as your screensaver or something?

[Bridget Burke]

29. We don't know anything about her social set.....

Maybe that's where she sees the grotesque killings.

[Judi Lynn]

30. That might explain the attitude.

So few Democrats come to D.U. to do any verbal swaggering. That's fairly rare.

I'd definintely want to stay away from places like that. Unwholesome.

[oneighty]

28. Dropping bombs and firing missiles

from afar day and night killing any and all that happens to be in the way is not torture either I suppose. 'Shock and Awe' was not torture, just a clever video game.

Anticipating the next explosion is torture.

180

[Barrett808]

31. Tip o' the iceberg

Hersh is promising much grimmer footage to come. "You haven't begun to see evil..."