Images Of Soldiers Killed In Iraq Fuels Debate

[leftchick]

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/06/21/soldierdeaths.html

<snip>

On Monday the ABC television network made the decision to show video of the bodies of four marines killed in Iraq.

That decision was met with both criticism and praise.

CNN on the other hand chose not ot air the images while ABC and 9News chose to do so.

In an effort to explore what effect the images might have on public opinion 9News spoke with two Tri-state experts to get their opinions on the matter

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. And the Senate voted not to allow coffins to be photographed

this will be next. And of course, you never show 'collateral damage'-the innocents that have been killed and mutilated because of this war. You see, if 'Mericans don't see it on TV, it didn't really happen-well, that's their thinking, anyway. Luckily, a few papers and numerous websites are showing the photos and telling the truth.

[oblivious]

2. 3-month-old Baby Ali looks like he's endured 100 years of pain.

That picture fills me with despair.

[Solly Mack]

3. What debate? If you have the stomach to wage war then you should

have the stomach to see all the death and destruction war brings.

Too many cowards support war from their comfort of their homes. Too many cowards cry vengence over dead American contractors but give no thought to dead Iraqi civilians. Too many cowards shout their support of Bush and the War on Terror, but are afraid to have a roll call of dead soldiers during a news program. Too many cowards don't want to see the bodies of dead soldiers on national television...because seeing the dead would intrude upon their nice safe reality. And goodness knows, we can't intrude upon the halcyon glory of wars remembered...

No war is noble. Noble deeds are sometimes performed by those who remember to put their humanity above their own fears...but noble deeds by individuals does not a noble war make.

[LibertyorDeath]

4. Thanks Solly Mack

Thank you

[gatlingforme]

5. You know the guy that coined "Give me Liberty or Death" made

his wife live in the basement shackled to chains because she was mentally disabled (crazy)Just some irrelevant info.

[LibertyorDeath]

26. You'll have to do better than that if you want

My user name. :)

No I didn't know that so thanks but the name stays

because it's EXACTLY how I see Life LibertyorDeath

[gatlingforme]

27. LOL same here!!!

[BlueCollar]

6. Thanks

Well put

[Kinkistyle]

9. Exactly. It so easy to say "Oh lets just bomb them all"

...when you don't have to actually see the results of said bombing.

[TahitiNut]

16. Beautifully stated.

"No war is noble. Noble deeds are sometimes performed by those who remember to put their humanity above their own fears, but noble deeds by individuals does not a noble war make."

As a Vietnam Vet, I applaud you for nailing it! Pithy, succint, and right on target!

:thumbsup:

We fail miserably with language whenever the word "war" does not convey the insanity, horror, and malignancy of its reality.

[truth2power]

17. Thank you, Solly.

I'm going to print this for when some "patriot" starts going on about Shrub's Glorious War.

[RebelOne]

7. CNN did air the images.

I saw them this morning on CNN News.

[Kimber Scott]

8. I saw them several times yesterday.

nt

[maddezmom]

13. saw them as well, yesterday and this am n/t

[Barrett808]

10. A frame grab from the videotape (graphic)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040621-1513-soldiers.html

[Rose Siding]

12. One report said their packs had been gone through

...and that seems to be what this picture shows.

That reminded me of that NYT article yesterday about the dispersal of money- it said that field commanders go about with satchels full of 100 dollar bills to pay contractors. Maybe there are murders now for the purposes of robbery.

Seems everything the soldiers are asked to do places them in more danger.

[tlcandie]

11. Consequences!!! If you don't want them .. then don't do the crime!!

Anyone, no matter their actions, need to see the results of those actions in black and white or color! Bring it on and let everyone see what is being done while they sit back talking patriotic US smack instead of just being controlled by the puppeteers!

It's like doing serious drugs and never seeing the down and out living on the streets, but staying in some high-flautin' lifestyle. It's like joining the military because of all those egotistical, make-you-feel-good ads that make you wanna be somebody, but they don't show you the horrors....the vets living on the streets maimed and out of their minds from all the craziness and killing along with no support from their government when they return home!

PULL BACK THAT CURTAIN TO THE TRUTH I SAY!!!

[neoteric lefty]

14. what ever happened to GOPers saying "lets put all the information out

there and let the people decide for themselves." That was long ago, wasn't it? This is war. People need to see the good and the bad.

[leftchick]

15. ABC News: Each soldier died from a single bullett.....

3 had one in the chest and one had a single shot in the head.

:(

[Barrett808]

18. Execution-style.

Thanks, George.

[Frangible]

19. Where was their body armor?

The interceptor body armor system that the pentagon was supposedly issuing to all soldiers in Iraq can defeat rifle fire with its ceramic plates... why didn't they have armor? Were their lives not worth the $800 cost?

[tabasco]

20. I think their flak vests are now being used by the Iraqis.

The Iraqis now have four more M-16's as well.

[Frangible]

21. That can't be

It's physically impossible for them to be shot by AK-47s through the ceramic plate.

I think their deaths are very odd, if they were wearing their armor there's no way they could have died like this.

This means there are two possibilities:

1. They never had body armor (entirely possible)
2. It was removed for some reason prior to their deaths

Also, "flak" vests are powdered lead in pockets and don't stop bullets or rifle fire, what I am referring to is the Interceptor body armor system that consists of an external carrier with integrated kevlar anti-handgun/fragmentation ballistic panels, the two alumina oxide ceramic plates that stop rifle fire, and the kevlar groin/neck guards. (Just so there's no confusion)

Last I heard, all US Marines in active combat duty had been issued Interceptor body armor. So, if they were wearing it, they couldn't have died in the manner described.

That's why I think it's odd they died in that manner.

[SidDithers]

23. Perhaps someone holding a gun to their head, told em to take it off...

These don't look like "firefight" deaths to me, more like the execution of captured soldiers.

Could this be a consequence of mistreatment of "detainees" by US guards? Surely, something to consider.

Sid

[Frangible]

24. could be (nt)

[tabasco]

25. I'm very familiar with body armor.

In the infantry, in which I served for ten years, we referred to them as flak vests. Flak vests do not make you invincible by any stretch. You can be killed or captured when ambushed, just like any other soldier. It looks like these troops got ambushed and all their gear stolen. Maybe they were captured and then killed, or killed in the ambush. Who knows? I don't really see anything strange in the scenario other than why these soldiers were isolated from the rest of their unit, whatever it was.

[Philostopher]

22. Here's something else I find interesting about this.

WCPO is a local news organization in Cincinnati, Ohio. They really must have felt like they were kicking against the tide, considering the attitude of many people in Cincinnati -- they've named every viaduct, sewer plant and cooling pond after Ronald Reagan since he left office in 1988. Kudos to WCPO for having the guts to do this, when it probably won't curry them any favor with a majority of local viewers, many of whom probably continuously hum the RW talking point, 'why don't they ever report anything positive about Iraq?' while they're brushing their teeth in the morning -- this was pretty brave.

[Disturbed]

28. I don't like seeing this.

I don't like seeing any dead people but I am an American citizen that
loathes these wars, was against them from the time BushCo started the drum beat for Afghanistan & Iraq. I am not a pacifist. If I or my family or neighbors were attacked or America I would fight. I was in the Army and got high marks on the range. Fortunately, I never had to find out what it would be like to kill &/or maim people.

Seems that Faluja is the "new" Warsaw Ghetto. Kill US troops and a hundred fold of Iraqis, mostly civilians, old men, women, babies and children are the casualties.

GODDAMN the BushCo War Criminals!!!