Afghan detainees routinely tortured and humiliated by US troops

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1245236,00.html

Detainees held in Afghanistan by American troops have been routinely tortured and humiliated as part of the interrogation process, in the same way as those in Iraq, a Guardian investigation has found.

Five detainees have died in custody, three of them in suspicious circumstances, and survivors have told stories of beatings, strippings, hoodings and sleep deprivation.

The nature of the alleged abuse indicates that what happened at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq was part of a pattern of interrogation that has been common practice since the US invasion of Afghanistan.

Yesterday, in an attempt to stem charges that senior officials in the Bush admin-istration condoned the use of torture in the war on terror, the White House released hundreds of pages of documents outlining its internal deliberations on interrogation.

more

[PeanutFarmer]

1. I'm afraid this happens in all wars.

It's just for evident now with the technology of today. Although the deaths are disturbing, sleep deprivation and hoodings hardly equal to the torture of having your head cut off in front of video camera for the entire world (and your family) to see.

[kayell]

2. Do you run down liberals for moral relativism

when you aren't being a torture apologist?

[cocoabeach]

4. I hope that when they find the terrorist cell that has kidnapped

and beheaded the civilian contractors, that they do a hell of alot more then deprive them of their sleep or put panties on their heads.

[NNN0LHI]

5. How about we have some more of our soldiers rape their wives and daughters?

Do you think that would show them, do ya?

Don

[cocoabeach]

9. Our Soldiers are known for raping, pilaging and burning

Give me a break. Accuse them of what you want but back it up. You seem to justify what these terrorist did to the contractors. Why?

[NNN0LHI]

16. Need to see the pictures before you will believe it eh?

Every war includes raping, pillaging and burning by both sides. And these "contractors" as you like to call them know exactly what chances they are taking by going into a war zone for profit. They are war profiteers not "contractors". It is dangerous work. If you want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan to avenge the death of some "contractors" have at it. And by the way a contractor is a guy who comes to my house with his lunch pale to fix my plumbing. Give me a break.

Don

[cocoabeach]

19. They are inoccent civilians who did not deserve the death

that they got. These murderers have no regard for life what so ever. They kill to make a point to the Americans. We (or at least most of us) are horrified by this and that is what they want.
Obviously the definition of contractor has escaped you.

[Spentastic]

21. All "contactors" are not equal

Blackwater security "operatives" as they no doubt like to be called as about as far from "innocent civilians" as they come.

Paul Johnson and Mr Sun were supplying occupation forces.

Innocent civilians? Nah. Deserve a televised beheading, of course not. More innocent or important than dead Iraqis? No.

[PeanutFarmer]

23. Paul Johnson repaired Apaches the the Saudi's owned.

[venus]

28. The deaths of these mercenaries and corporate contractors

are heinous, but are in direct response to the murders, albeit not beheadings, by U.S. troops against Afghans and Iraqi civilians.

If our Commanders are not smart enough or good enough to catch the "bad guys" then we shouldn't kill innocent civilians in your name. This is weakness, not strength.

I think you know that. You're justifying rape and murder by our troops, who will suffer for their deeds, along with innocent westerners. If we're the "greatest country in the world", we should start acting like it. Like it or not, we caused this backlash. How many beheadings took place under the Clinton administration? zilch! What are the occupied supposed to do - just lay down and allow us to trample on them. Revenge is not patriotism.

[lumpy]

32. Cocoa, How about those kids

in Iraq who have died/been maimed at the hands of US military; those innocent civilians who did not deserve the death and destruction ? The US military kills to make a point. The point ? Resist and you deserve to get a bullet in the head or worse. Do you really believe that this shows a regard for life what so ever ? Hypocrisy will get you nowhere.

[oldcoot]

35. There is evidence that soldiers raped prisoners in Iraq

See http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040628-655389,00.html for the entire article. I am not aware of there have been similar accusations against U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan.

[dutchdemocrat]

3. But killing people behind closed doors

With electricity or drugs is 'fine'. Hypocrisy... utterly.



"The Chicago Tribune found that of 131 Texas executions done under Bush, there were 40 cases of the defense presenting no evidence during sentencing, 29 uses of psychiatric practices that have been condemned by the American Psychiatric Association, and 43 where a defendant was represented by a lawyer who was later disbarred or disciplined."

http://www.commondreams.org/views/102500-101.htm

If Texas were a nation, it would rank fifth in the world in executions.

Do you realise that most of the 'civilised' world finds this barbaric?

[PeanutFarmer]

8. If they raped a child or murdered another, yes.

[dutchdemocrat]

14. Don't worry

Eugenics is alive and kicking.

Once they give the whole country a psyche test...

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

Biochip on the way.

"The president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools."

The commission also recommended "Linkage with treatment and supports" including "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions." The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a "model" medication treatment plan that "illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes."

I trust that Mr Bush will be the first to try out his new screening procedure. Perhaps they will be screening for mental retardation at the same time?


-----------

And as for America's criminal justice (oxymoron) system. Congratulations - The Russians fell behind, gulag and all.

---

Inmates: The United States has surpassed Russia as the nation with the highest percentage of citizens behind bars.

by Scott Shane

With a record-setting 2 million people locked up in American jails and prisons, the United States has overtaken Russia and has a higher percentage of its citizens behind bars than any other country.



Today the United States imprisons at a far greater rate not only than other developed Western nations do, but also than impoverished and authoritarian countries do.


Those are the latest dreary milestones resulting from a two-decade imprisonment boom that experts say has probably helped reduce crime but has also created ballooning costs and stark racial inequities.

Overseas, U.S. imprisonment policy is widely seen as a blot on a society that prides itself on valuing liberty and just went to war to overturn Saddam Hussein's despotic rule in Iraq.

"Why, in the land of the free, should 2 million men, women and children be locked up?" asks Andrew Coyle, director of the International Centre for Prison Studies at the University of London and a leading authority on incarceration.

When he discusses crime and punishment with foreign colleagues, Coyle says, the United States is such an anomaly that it must often be left out of the discussion. "People say, 'Well, that's the United States.' They see the U.S. as standing entirely on its own," he says.

The latest statistics support that view. The new high of 2,019,234, announced by the Justice Department in April, underscores the extraordinary scale of imprisonment in the United States compared with that in most of the world.

During the 1990s, the United States and Russia vied for the dubious position of the highest incarceration rate on the planet.

But in the past few years, Russian authorities have carried out large-scale amnesties to ease crowding in disease-infested prisons, and the United States has emerged unchallenged into first place, at 702 prisoners per 100,000 population. Russia has 665 prisoners per 100,000.

Today the United States imprisons at a far greater rate not only than other developed Western nations do, but also than impoverished and authoritarian countries do.

On a per capita basis, according to the best available figures, the United States has three times more prisoners than Iran, four times more than Poland, five times more than Tanzania and seven times more than Germany. Maryland has more citizens in prison and jail (an estimated 35,200) than all of Canada (31,600), though Canada's population is six times greater.

"This is a pretty serious experiment we've been engaged in," says Vincent Schiraldi, director of the Justice Policy Institute, a Washington think tank that supports alternatives to prison. "I don't think history will judge us kindly."

Bruce Western, a sociologist at Princeton University, says sentencing policies have had a glaringly disproportionate impact on black men. The Justice Department reports that one in eight black men in their 20s and early 30s were behind bars last year, compared with one in 63 white men. A black man has a one-in-three chance of going to prison, the department says.

For black male high school dropouts, Western says, the numbers are higher: 41 percent of black dropouts between ages 22 and 30 were locked up in 1999.

<SNIP>

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0601-01.htm

[PeanutFarmer]

20. Now, I'll agree that this Bush proposal is insane (pun intended).

[zbird]

7. Ah yes, the new RW meme:

We're not as bad as (take your pick) Saddam/Osama/the beheaders! GO USA!

[PeanutFarmer]

12. Why does it have to be a RW slogan?

A lot of democrats feel that way.

[mike_c]

11. beheaders: 4; U.S. military: tens of thousands....

Counting Daniel Pearl. How many tens of thousands of innocent Afghanis and Iraqis have died or been maimed since the "war on terror" began? What ratio of innocent civilian deaths is acceptable for every "terrorist" killed or captured? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1? How many innocents can we torture in order to kill or capture each alleged terrorist?

You're damned right "the deaths are disturbing." It's state sponsered murder, inside and outside the American gulag. They're doing it in our names, and while you might find that comforting, I find it outrageous.

As for the civilian contractors who've been executed, I too wish they hadn't been, but the Iraqis have a great deal of innocent blood to repay, and innocent occupation members are the easiest targets. They shouldn't be there in the first place. Personally, I'd rather give the Iraqi resistance Charles Graner or Lynddie England....

[PeanutFarmer]

13. So, an eye for an eye?

[jayfish]

33. Isn't That What Afghanistan And Iraq (Falluja Especially) Were? -NT-

Jay

[gulliver]

17. Don't attack the military's reputation.

You are attacking the reputation of the military in a big way. The story says that there are beatings and suspicious deaths in custody, and you say this happens in all wars. So I guess you are saying that the military just always does this stuff.

And I say prove it. If you are going to insinuate that the American military routinely beats and kills prisoners in custody, you should at least have some proof.

Right wingers will do anything to protect little Junior, including apologizing for crimes against POWs by a minority of American soldiers. How dare you say the military always does this sort of thing! I think it much more likely that the Bush Administration saying that the Geneva Conventions don't apply sent a bad message to the few "I'm gonna take the gloves off, you raghead" thugs in the military.

Now our military is getting a bad reputation, and it's OK with you. According to you, the American military always does this sort of thing. And I say you are a liar.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

24. How many beheadings have there been, and how many beating deaths?

In fact which came first, the beheadings or the beating deaths?

I think you will find that the answer to BOTH of those questions is NOT beneficial to the US.

The fact is Afghans AND Iraqis were being beaten to death long before ANY beheadings occured. So you could say the latter is simply retaliation for the former.

[riverwalker]

25. am curious

PeanutFarmer, you think it is more humane to be stuffed head first into a sleeping bag, and slowly suffocate to death with someone kicking you and sitting on your chest? This is what we did to the Iraqi General, after beating him for several days. Did we treat the commanders of Germany and Japan that way after defeat? It does NOT happen in all wars.

[Tommy_Douglas]

27. Keep in mind...

The prison torturing and humiliation helps create the support and members these terrorist organizations crave.

[thebigidea]

29. so how about being beaten to death, eletrocuted, or raped?

I supppose that's ok since those awful, horrible, savages behead people.

At one point did beheading become the ultimate in depravity, excusing anything we do forever more?

[lumpy]

31. Any other kind of torture is preferable

to beheading, Peanut ? Is nothing wrong with beatings leading to death, rape of men and women, electric shock ? Is that it, Peanut ? Is killing/mutilating bodies using bombs and bullets preferable to beheadings ? Is devastation of a country and it's people preferable to beheadings, Peanut ? Is it intelligent to believe the lies that power-hungry politicians feed you ? If so, gobble away.

[teryang]

6. Hundreds of defenseless captives were killed

...in the early days of the Afghanistan conflict. There is some evidence that American troops were involved. The excuse is that were under warlord control. This has never been investigated by American authorities.

I distinctly remember a early report where American forces attacked a village and afterwards, two dead captives were found with their hands tied behind their backs with zipties and bullet holes in their heads.

[cocoabeach]

10. This report you are siting

Does it mention that bombs were dropped or that the enemy were hidng in the civilian areas? I don't buy it for one minute that our military kills civilians on purpose.

[Spentastic]

15. Er

Hiroshima

Nagasaki

They do and will continue to do so. Did you think Shock and Awe meant pretty fireworks?

[Bridget Burke]

18. These were not civilians, but thousands died in Afghanistan.

I found this quick link to a story many of us remember: "US SOLDIERS took part in the torture of Taleban prisoners and may have had a role in the 'disappearance' of around 3,000 men in Mazar-i-Sharif in north-west Afghanistan, according to a new documentary."

It was published in The Scotsman in 14 June 2002.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=648372002

Of course, those who died were not civilians. However, I have concern for our military as well & hope that any captured might be treated humanely. Some of our forces--with civilian assistance--may well have done evil; this needs to be investigated all the way to the top. But the vast majority of our men & women overseas do not deserve to be punished as "revenge"--neither do the civilians.

[teryang]

22. I didn't say they were civilians

...but nothing justifies shooting defenseless prisoners. It was pretty much a case of res ipsa. US armed forces attack village. Shortly thereafter two prisoners who were under American interrogation found with zipties tieing their hands behind their backs and bullet holes in the heads in the same place where they were being interrogated. It was absolutely consistent with the rationalizations put out by the legal apologists for torture in the administration. My point is that the matter was never investigated nor was it ever reported again. It may not have been Army, it could have been CIA. I've been told zipties are favored by CIA security. The latter is really a distinction without a difference as the Army was in tactical command.

It is quite clear that "taliban" prisoners were regarded as candidates for torture and killing because it fit the purported "legal" justification that it would prevent "other terrorist attacks" in which fellow Americans predictably might be killed. Many ignorant politicians and journalists are still openly making this argument. Somehow they believe that torture is ok for taliban and other "terrorist" detainees but that a different standard applies to detainees in Iraq. I understand that this have never been the official Army policy. I have however heard military officers and NCOs make the argument that anything goes in war. The administration clearly moved to change Army policy against torture.

They couldn't be more wrong. The purported justification that American lives could be saved by torture of captives/detainees could be made more aptly in the case of guerillas in Iraq, yet the postulate is both unproven and illegal in both instances.

[riverwalker]

26. "the chick was in the way" n/t

[thebigidea]

30. here, let me make it easier for you: just think of civilians as "enemy"

there, now it doesn't even MATTER if our glorious military kills them accidently or on purpose. They're ALL enemies!

Godblessmerica!

[lumpy]

34. All citizens of the US have now become the

enemy in the eyes of millions of people throughout the world. Our babies in the crib, our toddlers, our young men and women, all of us.
Is this what we asked of our leaders ?

[struggle4progress]

36. kick for routine torture

:kick: