Spanish troops in Iraq to wear Christian badge

[JCMach1]

On first hearing that the new contingent of Spanish troops being sent to Iraq are wearing the Cruz de Santiago de Compostela (Cross of St. James of Compostela) on their arm badge, one could be forgiven for thinking the authorities in Spain had lost their minds. On reflection, however, and in the context of the prevailing world political atmosphere, more sinister conclusions can be drawn from this action.

The triangular top and arrow-like arms of the cross have become a symbol of the liquidation of the Muslims who were finally driven out of Spain after 800 years of fighting by the reconquest in 1492. This was also the start of the period of colonialist expansion by Spain’s Catholic monarchy...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/spai-a12.shtml

[wtmusic]

1. They don't know the Inquisition is over

will someone please remind me why we need religion?

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

2. Religion is

something Man invented because God was too confusing. (props to the Mr. Hell Show)

[PurityOfEssence]

7. as an all purpose excuse

well, you asked...

It's the cosmic trump card, the double o license to do anything.

[denverbill]

3. Boy, is this the height of stupidity or what?

It's as bad as Bush call the war in Afghanistan a 'crusade'.

[FlaGranny]

4. This will certainly

make the Spanish troops favorite targets, won't it? It's comparable to *'s "bring 'em on" with an added religious provocation.

[bif]

5. A kindler, gentler Crusade!

great.

[PurityOfEssence]

6. Bring on the declining empires...

Hell, let's be serious here; the British flag (the Union Jack) has 2, count 'em, 2 crosses on it: the cross of St. George and the cross of St. Andrew.

It's like some of the religion arguments one gets into on this board: believers often just don't realize that their "assumption" can be offensive. I'm sure most people involved in this never had it cross (har har) their minds, but it's the very fact that it's so ingrained that will often cause most of the problems. Many ethical believers are often stunned when you point out how something so commonplace to them is a problem...

I just love thinking along Rummy's lines about sneering at the "Old Europe" of the republics of Germany and France as we cozy up to the "New Europe", the Monarchies of England and Spain. La la la la la la.

[oneighty]

Yeah

and the German fighter planes and bombers WW2

displayed proudly "The Cross" as they bombed the bejeazus

out of England while praying in harmony to the "God of the West."

Huh?

180

[FlashHarry]

13. Er, last time I checked, there were three...

Unless you're not counting the cross of St. Patrick. At least after 1801 and the Act of Union, there were three.

[PurityOfEssence]

28. good one! Ya got me

even worse...

[starroute]

39. Actually, it's three crosses

The flag consists of three heraldic crosses.

The cross of St George, patron saint of England since the 1270's, is a red cross on a white ground. It was the national flag of England until James I succeeded to the throne in 1603, after which it was combined in 1606 with the crosses of St. Andrew and St. Patrick;

The cross saltire of St Andrew, patron saint of Scotland, is a diagonal white cross on a blue ground.

The cross saltire of St Patrick, patron saint of Ireland, is a diagonal red cross on a white ground. This was combined with the previous Union Flag of St George and St Andrew, after the Act of Union of Ireland with England (and Wales) and Scotland on 1 January 1801, to create the Union Flag that has been flown ever since.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page398.asp


On edit: Oops -- duplicate info. I didn't see post #13 because #6 was directly followed by oneighty's unnumbered post, which appears as an answer to the original message. Anyone know why the board is still glitching like that sometimes?

[blm]

8. What a bunch of insane idiots.

Taking gasoline to a firestorm.

[ewagner]

9. Dumbing down

...has reached epidemic proportions.

Nobody should be that stupid. Makes you wonder what the agenda really is?

[section321]

10. I'm sure no one in Iraq remembers 1492...

When the Spaniards ejected the Moors from Spain....

I'm sure there's no hard feelings there...

[DarkPhenyx]

11. Just my opinion.

If the "badge" in question were a standard part of the military uniform in Spain then there is no real "stupidity" involved. They are fully entitled to wear their uniform w/o altering it. Just as American forces in foreign lands are entitlled to wear/fly the AMerican flag adn our female soldiers are not required to wear the Burka.

It does appear, from the report given, that it is a new badge. If this is the case it is definately not a wise move on their part. However it is entirely possible that the designer wasn't entirely conversant in the history behind the symbol.

<on edit>

It is also apparently a new use of some symbology that ahs been used on Spanish uniforms for a long time.

[AndyTiedye]

17. Onward Christian Soldiers

> However it is entirely possible that the designer wasn't entirely conversant in the history behind the symbol.

It is inconceivable that everyone involved was ignorant of their own country's history.
They knew exactly what they were doing.

This is a Crusade. Shrub was speaking the truth (for once) when he that word.
They'll be making our soldiers wear crosses before long. Just watch.
They already have been making them to pray for Bush*, and I presume that
they are also having to protect all those Southern Baptist missionaries that
poured into Iraq as soon as the shooting died down.

This would be a good time for the Pope to raise some objections to the use of
the cross in this cause. His words should have some weight in Spain, and
prevent the government from claiming any religious support for this.

[ichiro99]

19. The other side've already noted a certain religious overtone present ...

http://www.jihadunspun.com/newsarchive/
"The Army Of Mohammed Declare Jihad Against Iraq's 'Invaders & Colonisers'" by Omar Al-Faris, JUS Aug 12, 2003/ The group says it has 5,000 Mujahideen, a well-organized central command and are dedicated to a new Iraqi government without Saddam or the Americans. ...A US military official in Tikrit on Sunday said ...it was contemptible to invoke Islam's prophet in their fight ...

[DarkPhenyx]

25. It isn't that inconceivable.

Name one portion of American history that you are completely 100% conversant in. Now, name a second one.

[starroute]

40. Americans are well-known idiots when it comes to our own history

But even we would notice if, say, someone announced they were going to station Hessians among us as part of an occupying army.

The part that really baffles me, though, isn't the Spanish -- it's the Mongols. I mean, the Crusaders never got further than Damascus. But the Mongols destroyed Baghdad and killed 800,000 inhabitants. And even the Poles who are supposed to oversee them say, "Our friends from Mongolia are very good soldiers, but they don't understand NATO procedures." You really have to wonder about that.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/222/nation/In_handover_Polish_troops_see_chance_to_shine+.shtml

[arcane1]

12. ah, another reason to hate us for our freedoms

I'm almost afraid to ask what these idiots are going to come up with next...

:eyes:

[0007]

15. Next?.........

Probably the troops will get the new motorized motor scooter for guard duty and going to mail call & chow

[ze_dscherman]

14. Typical picture of Santiago

Santiago is a very popular saint in Spain (and its former empire), you'll find many pictures of him in churches. Typically, he is depicted swinging his sword and riding over defeated and killed Moors/Arabs. So, his cross is way more an offense than other christian crosses in flags.

If the Arabs don't know what that badge meant, they'll learn it soon.

[Gloria]

16. I'm surprised it took even WSWS this long to

get this story....I posted a story on this about 2-3 weeks ago in the WMW!!

Just another example of how slow we are in getting news, if we get it at all!

And WSWS is more up on things on the regular media, so you can imagine what the general public is getting!! NADA!!

[NYC]

36. I must have read your report.

That's why I already knew about this. Thanks. :hi:

[FlashHarry]

18. ¿Operación Reconquista?

Why not just call it that and be done with it?
</sarcasm>

[tom_paine]

20. The Cross, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord

Ya gotta love the Poles and the Spanish.

The Poles told it like it is...they want a cut of the oil.

The Spanish tell it like it is...this is an Imperial Crusade.

They need to take lessons in Goebbels v2.0 from Uncle Karl in order to conceal their motives better, otehrwise their people might think they were after oil and Crusade.

[Kamika]

21. heh payback time

They didnt forget the moors i get

[DinahMoeHum]

22. Oh boy, more fat juicy targets for the Iraqis!!

Wait 'til they find out about the emblems!!

:evilfrown:

[underpants]

23. No one expected the Spanish Inquisition!

Sorry had to say it.

[rocktivity]

24. Huh? Not one "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!" joke?

rocknation

[PurityOfEssence]

37. Cardinal Fang could not be reached for comment

one more crack like that, and it's the comfy chair, infidel.

[Paschall]

26. I guess the badge must look something like this

This is the symbol used by the Confraternity of St James.

"The triangular top and arrow-like arms of the cross have become a symbol of the liquidation of the Muslims..." Frankly, the cross looks more like a dagger.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

27. WTF???

do they think they are doing. Has the Spanish Military been taken over by Bush and Co?

[neuvocat]

29. I'm gonna cover myself in animal blood and

jump in shark-infested waters. Who's with me?

[JNelson6563]

30. why not just use bulls-eyes?

idiots--arrogant fools.

Julie

[damnraddem]

31. And also the impetus for establishing the Spanish Inquisition.

No, it wasn't supposed to go after Jews and Muslims -- they were, after all, supposed to have been expelled. Instead, it went after: (1) Jews and Muslims who had been FORCED to convert to Catholicism; and (2) Jews and Muslims who had voluntarily converted in order to not be expelled, and not lose all their property that those who were expelled were prevented from taking with them.

It all stems from one of the moral low points of Christianity (and, yes, that's saying a lot); and is a major insult to Muslims. And the 'sinister conclusions' may well be right -- considered in the context that the Pope is all hot to canonize Queen Isabella, a major perpetrator of the policy decisions to expel non-Christians from Spain.

[damnraddem]

32. By the way, Opus Dei, the rightwing Spanish organization ...

mentioned in the article, has among its members in the U.S. Senators Santorum and Brownback.

[alanw]

33. WRT the Spanish "Empire" and the moors...

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for years but don't post often.

I'm one of the Americans who swore that if the drunken monkey made it to the white house I would leave the country. I've been living in Spain since the beginning of the year.

The consensus here seems to be that Spain is wholly united behind the BFEE and I can assure you this is not the case. There is not a single person I have met in the last six months who supports this "war", nor their president. Aznar is routinely ridiculed on television and in the newspapers and there are frequent and large demonstrations against the military's continuing involvement.

The political situation here is a bit messed up, and because they don't allow coalition governments people like Aznar and his right-wing PP party wind up in control. Even when the PSOE and others have greater support from the population. Es una mierda, as they say here. But the people are rallying and I'm certain he won't see another term.

WRT to the symbolism of that particular patch I can't say as there has not been anything significant in the local news about it. But remember that the moors were driven from this country for what most of the people here consider to be a very good reason.

Just wanting to set the record straight.

-alan in sitges

[NYC]

35. The protests in Spain were covered.

I have some excellent photographs of the protest in Barcelona. Excellent turnout.

I don't confuse the Spanish people with the Spanish government any more than I confuse the American people with the American government.

Someone might mention to the Spanish army that they are not going to Iraq to kill the moors or drive them from the country for a good reason this time. This cross is likely to be seen as offensive and provocative.

Welcome to DU. :hi: I hope you enjoy living in Spain. Will you be moving back when we get a real president?

[Zhade]

34. I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Organized religion (not spirituality!) is the original weapon of mass destruction.

[schultzee]

38. The Evil Axis of the Willing just want to creat hatred wherever they go

and they are doing it so well.

[aquart]

41. Oy. Kinda like wearing a bullseye?

Or a swastika in Tel Aviv?

On the upside, maybe it will take some of the heat off American soldiers. They could use it.