Federal judge apologizes for comparing Bush's rise with Hitler, Mussolini

[Kadie]

Federal judge apologizes for comparing Bush's rise with Hitler, Mussolini

By LARRY NEUMEISTER, Associated Press
Last Updated: June 24, 2004, 07:29:00 PM PDT


NEW YORK (AP) - A federal judge offered his "profound regret" Thursday for saying President Bush's rise to power was similar to that of Mussolini and Hitler.
Judge Guido Calabresi, 71, of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan, drew an audible gasp from lawyers attending Saturday's convention of the American Constitution Society in Washington, according to the New York Sun, which quoted the speech in Monday's editions.

"My remarks were extemporaneous and, in hindsight, reasonably could be - and indeed have been - understood to do something which I did not intend, that is, take a partisan position," Calabresi wrote in a letter of apology to Chief Judge John Walker.

Calabresi, a former dean of Yale Law School, was quoted saying the U.S. Supreme Court "put somebody in power" when a ruling it made in December 2000 settled the dispute over whether Bush had defeated Al Gore.

"In a way that occurred before but is rare in the United States ... somebody came to power as a result of the illegitimate acts of a legitimate institution that had the right to put somebody in power," Calabresi said. "The reason I emphasize that is because that is exactly what happened when Mussolini was put in by the king of Italy.

more... http://www.modbee.com/24hour/nation/story/1456955p-8844950c.html

[smirkymonkey]

1. Nooooooo Guido, noooooooooooo!

Nobody named Guido Calabresi should ever have to apologize!

[Sandpiper]

2. What a Coward

Have the courage to stand by your own words.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. Ever think that he, or his family, has been threatened?....

For instance, what if you got an anonymous phone call in the middle of the night quietly explaining that they know where your grandchildren live?

How would you react to something like that? Would you take the risk that one or more of your grandchildren could die based on what you did next?

Would you have the courage to "stand by your own words" under those circumstances?

[Sandpiper]

19. Everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence

Did so with knowledge that they were putting their own lives and the lives of their families at risk.

MLK was the face of the Civil Rights movement, knowing full well that he and his family were in danger because of it.

If you're asking how I feel, my feeling is that it's better to die a patriot than live a coward.

[Nihil]

22. I think the point is slightly different

> my feeling is that it's better to die a patriot than live a coward.

The most effective threat that can be made is not to the person whose
views need "changing", it is to those innocents who matter to that
person.

He would not "die a patriot" nor would he "live a coward".
He would, however, live every minute knowing that his pride, his
determination to be "right", ruined the life of an innocent grandchild
(or whoever).

What's more, if the first "example" doesn't work, there will be others
left behind to become the next "persuader".

If you kill a patriot, he (or she) is dead and thus beyond your reach.
If you maim or kill one of many loved ones, there is still time to
further apply your threat.

I would die for a cause I believed to be just.
I would not sentence even one of my children to death for the sake of
an apology (sincere or otherwise).

Nihil

[Sandpiper]

29. I think you're dead wrong

nor would he "live a coward".

Yes he most certainly would.

The way tyrants rule is by fear and threats of force.

If people had decided in 1776, "criticizing King George is ok, as long as no one threatens my family" our national anthem would be God Save Queen.

Glad to know where you stand though. You'll die for a cause, as long as there's no risk to your kids.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Do you personally have any children or grandchildren?....

If you do, I'd like to see what a big talker you would be willing to be with someone holding a knife to their throats.

And where the HECK do you get off lecturing anyone on DU about where they stand on the issues? EVERYONE that posts on DU will be marked for questioning if things gets really bad and the NeoCons declare martial law. Don't you know that DU is monitored, 24/7? If not, where the heck have you been while Poindexter has been taking TIPS into the private sector?

Now, let's discuss a couple of your earlier points. When the Declaration of Independence was signed, the signers all knew exactly what they were going up against. At that point in time, Great Britain was the strongest, most ruthless power in the world...an emoier that had proven time and again that they would do anything to keep their empire intact.

The signers also knew the reasons for which they were willing to fight, if it came to that. Even as they signed, they were still holding out hope that the situation could be handled peacefully.

But, the signers were also very wealthy men with the ability to flee when necessary, taking their families with them. This is something they were all forced to do more than once during the coming war.

But, the ordinary rank and file colonists were FAR from being as united as their political representatives. About one third wanted independence from England, one third wanted to remain loyal to the Crown, and one third was either totally apathetic or waiting to see which way to go.

Now, let's discuss the current situation. Where is the "united movement" of political leaders today that are determined to ensure that FratBoy and the NeoCons are removed from the centers of government by any means necessary? Do you see any? Have you heard from any? Do you think any actually exist?

You talk real big, but I'd personally like to see how you would respond under major duress.

[Sandpiper]

40. Delete

[not systems]

3. Why apologize for pointing out the obvious...

democracy failed and a "leader" was appointed.

Stability was given as the reason and the appointed
"leader" has gone on to consolidate powers not seen
in modern American history including the power to
disappear anyone in the world in to a system of secret
prison camps.

[justjones]

4. In the meantime, Bush has no problem comparing "wild-eyed" Dems to Hitler.

On his own website

Can I get a quack, quack and a go fuck yourself?

[DesolationRow]

5. What a crock.

Not anything he said, including his apology, but that he would be made to feel he needed to apologize. The court made a partisan decision but he is not allowed to point it out? How does that make any sense?

[goforit]

6. Why are their soooooo many weak men?????

I just wish I had a good punch line!
LOL!!!!

[Guaranteed]

20. It's easy to be weak when you have something to lose. nt

[sangh0]

33. I wonder if the people who complain about weakness

have ever sacrificed *their* careers for a principle

[Sandpiper]

41. What are you talking about

Federal Judges are appointed for life.

[MajorFlaw]

7. Since no one has mentioned it yet--Chief Judge John Walker is

a shrub cousin. No surprise that he was able and willing to deliver a message.

[Kadie]

14. Interesting

I didn't know that. Thanks.

[pinto]

8. geez, the judge made sense to me the first time.......m/t

[yardwork]

9. Babs Bush probably threatened to get him, or something.

I'm beginning to think that she is the godfather behind the BFEE.

[2cents]

10. His (pressured) apology..

justifies his original contention.

[nolabels]

11. Ah, shucks he just being nostalgic

He may be at a crossroads for a new career, maybe we could give a break this time.


http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Public_Affairs/281/yls_article.htm
August 16, 2002
Guido Calabresi Receives Lifetime Achievement Award for Legal Writing

The career output of Guido Calabresi, Sterling Professor Emeritus of Law, Professorial Lecturer in Law and judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals, Second Circuit, amounts to over 100 articles, nearly 800 opinions of varying lengths, and four books--in other words, a heavy load of paper.

When Calabresi was informed that Scribes, the American Society of Writers on Legal Subjects, would bestow their Lifetime Achievement Award for Writing on him, he says that one of the first thoughts he had was that he was being recognized for this quantity alone. He was reminded of the famous epitaph for Sir John Vanbrugh, the architect of several gargantuan edifices: "Lie heavy on him, earth, for he/ Laid many a heavy load on thee!"

But Calabresi's writing as both a jurist and a legal scholar has been as influential as it has been prolific. Among Calabresi's classic works of legal writing are a 1961 article, "Some Thoughts on Risk Distribution and the Law of Torts," and a 1970 book, The Cost of Accidents: A Legal and Economic Analysis, both seminal to the field of law and economics--and later works on a breadth of subjects, such as A Common Law for the Age of Statutes, and Ideals, Beliefs, Attitudes and the Law. The ideas he has raised are cited hundreds of times each year in legal journals.

Calabresi points out that the obligations of a legal writer are very particular--and less concerned with style than with substance. He contrasts his priorities with the literary view of poet W.H. Auden: "Auden's notion was that writers, poets, were pardoned for their views because they wrote well... That's all very well, but it doesn't work for judges. We have to get it right. And if we get it right we will be pardoned even if we don't write well."
(snip)

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853

[aquart]

12. What a bunch of wusses.

What did he say that wasn't true? So let's avoid the truth in case the crime is so egregious it is clear that any sane person would have to decide in favor of the truth instead of the lies.

[nolabels]

16. He just didn't want to upset anybody

http://www.d.umn.edu/~mohs0025/funny/

[bermudat]

15. Why do they always apologize for insulting Bush?

Eight years of Clinton Bashing and I have yet to hear one apology from any repugnantcans.

[Kimber Scott]

17. I never heard anybody ask, indignantly, "Are you calling the President

a LIAR?" when Clinton was in office, either. YES! YES! I'm calling President Bush a LIAR! LIAR. LIAR. LIAR.

I can understand how this judge is not supposed to show partisanship, though. (But, now we know what he really thinks, whether he apologized, or not.)

[shance]

18. I dont see it as an apology. I see it as a clarification intended

to lessen the sting of saying something that might otherwise offend. Perhaps of what he has knows as his own experience.

It appears to me Calabresi holds to his conviction:

<< somebody came to power as a result of the illegitimate acts of a legitimate institution that had the right to put somebody in power," Calabresi said. "The reason I emphasize that is because that is exactly what happened when Mussolini was put in by the king of Italy.>>

Not what I would call an *apology*.

[Democat]

21. Meanwhile, there is a Hitler ad on Bush's campaign website!

Take a look at the latest Bush ad, it has Hitler in it.

[WyLoochka]

23. Thanks for pointing that ad out

I don't think it's going to work in the chumpster's favor. I re-watched it several times just to cheer for the clips they selected:

Gore "How dare they?"
Dean "I want my country back"
Moore "sent us to war for fictitious reasons"
Gephardt "this prez is a miserable failure"
Gore "he betrayed our country, he played on our fears"
Kerry "Today George Bush will lay off your camel, tax your shovel, kick your ass and tell you there is no promised land"

Followed by a pic of the dip-shit, with dip shit music playing in the background.

I know, I know, I'm a member of the choir. But I think the ad may backfire on Bush* and end up recruiting more members for the choir.

[dusty64]

24. I saw yesterday that

rove is using ads comparing Democrats to hitler, where is THEIR fuckin apology?

[silverpatronus]

25. why does everybody keep apologising?

you said what you said for a reason! stand by your words! the republicans cry 'partisan' and you back down? throw it right back at them! you don't need to be 'partisan' to see the parallels between germany circa 1933 and america circa 2004. every criticism of the president is decried by the republicans as 'partisan'...and everybody backs down like 'partisan' is synonymous with 'child molestor' or something. GEEZ! this is just more evidence that democrats are letting republicans set the rules and then running to play catch-up.

[Ganja Ninja]

26. Hitler & Mussolini rose up through a political system on their own.

They were self made men that worked their way into power. Smirky was handed power without any sort of merit by a wealthy cabal. Without his family connections Bush would be mopping floors somewhere.

[truthspeaker]

27. Dammit, don't apologize for telling the truth!

[Sandpiper]

30. But, but, but

What if they threatened his grandkids?

[NashVegas]

28. Meanwhile, on Bush's OWN Website

There's a comparison of various opposing figures juxtaposed with Hitler images.

[struggle4progress]

32. I'm shocked. Bush should apologize.

[California Democrat]

38. Provide the link please....

Thanks....

[hightime]

31. I am sure Hitler and Mussolini accept your apology.

30 posts and nobody touched that straight line of a headline? I thought there were alot more humor here than that.

[Kadie]

34. Perfect response. LOL

[Qutzupalotl]

35. "I'm sorry Bush's rise was so much like Hitler's."

:)

[Jackpine Radical]

37. I think it was a little overboard to compare Bush to Mussolini.

Bush hasn't made the trains run on time.

[Tsiyu]

39. In Guido's Defense

I apologize for fat-fingering my response to the initial post about Calebresi's words. They Moooooved me.

But look at it this way. He doesn't take back his words, only says he is remorseful over getting partisan. This is a big deal for a judge. Imagine when all the Repug goons get hauled into his jurisdiction. He must maintain the aura of non-bias in order to prosecute them.

Consider his words a rare gift that are forbidden( and that should be, because we would hate it if it were the other way around - (think F**in Cheney and Scalia duckhunting?)) (Parenthetical license alert******)but nevertheless given to us to see a rare glimpse into the minds of people in positions of influence who think like we do.

I am still encouraged, and tired of having to apologize for anything. My ancestors have fought all over this great big freaking planet. I have a few firearms of my own and would kill and/or die to protect my own. But I'll die to see they have something worth keeping rather than blindly following somone else's Primrose path....
There is nothing in Bush's plan for me. Nothing.

And here I have had to fend off someone trying to install a remote driver for their modem and other hacker hooey. Where do these people come from? What the Fuck Happened to America?