Conservatives seek to help Ralph Nader

[wyethwire]

SALEM, Ore. -- Two conservative groups have been phoning people around Oregon this week, urging them to attend Ralph Nader's convention Saturday in hopes of putting Nader's name on Oregon's presidential ballot.

The groups make no bones about their goal - to draw votes away from Democrat John Kerry and help President Bush win this battleground state in November.

"We disagree with Ralph Nader's politics, but we'd love to see him make the ballot," said Russ Walker of Citizens for a Sound Economy, a group best known for its opposition to tax increases.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apelection_story.asp?category=1131&slug=Nader%20Convention

[NJmaverick]

1. Let us see the Nader defenders

Explain this one!

[checks-n-balances]

16. Anyone? Anyone?

Just how long ago did Nader decide to lower the bar on his own (stated) principles, anyway? I think he's operating from a new set of unspoken "principles" these days.

And why would anyone throw their vote away on such a person?

Get this, BTW: I JUST heard is that he's telling people in the so-called swing states to go ahead and attend his rallies, even if they plan to vote for Kerry, and suggesting, "Why not give the democrats a scare before voting for him?"

I supposed that would give him some kind of perverse thrill to find out how many people would actually do what he says. He wants SOMEBODY to do what he says, seeing that so many who got his vote in '00 refuse to drink that Naderade again.

Why would people enjoy manipulating the electorate while being manipulated themselves?

His words and tactics get more sick and self-serving every day.

(edited to add comments)

[mzmolly]

2. *sigh*

:puke:

[The Magistrate]

3. At Least, Sir

It answers the question of whar Wrecker Nader will use for a campaign organization....

[mstrsplinter326]

4. First of all

Since Nader did not hire these firms, then Nader supporters have no anwsering to do.

Moreover, if Kerry has to worry about Oregon, then he's got more problems than ralphy...

[Mountainman]

6. The hell they don't. They're responsible for making the situation possible

If you support Nader and his campaign is an invitation to Repubs to use that to hurt Kerry, you, by inference, support what the Repubs are doing and you are as responsible as anyone. If you don't want the blame, then urge Nader to drop out. If not, then take the heat!

Stop playing like the innocent victim and the holier than thou leftists.

[mstrsplinter326]

22. So third parties are forever banned?

Please as long as I listen to you, every year will be too important to "risk" on a third party.

Stop playing the you're either with us or against us crap, nothing is that clear cut.

[Mountainman]

32. The question is are you results orientated or process orientated.

The result could be a Bush win. This year that is what is most important to stop. If you are a process orientated person and you don't give a damn about the results you are responsible for the results just the same. You can't hide under the covers and claim innocence.

[mstrsplinter326]

42. So, as a true leftist,

These are my options:

Vote the "safe way" only to watch Kerry recind his policies lean ever more right to "gain voters" (what a joke, most people in this country would vote for a truely left democrat).

-or-

Vote the issues and my concious and A) have four more years of Bush and B) have folks like you call me egomanical for sticking to my guns.

I can take the verbal abuse and I sure as hell can beat bush through grassroots (with the help of my friends), so I'll keep my consious clean.

P.S. Before the flames rise up out of your keyboard keep in mind I live in Indiana. 75/25 Bush tilt in 2000. I've stated many times that I might feel differently if I lived somewhere else.

[neverforget]

8. Shouldn't Ralph be able to get enough signatures on his own to

get on the ballot or does he need help from Republicans? Looks like he needs help from Republicans. Nader, a so-called "progressive", needs help from the very people he supposedly wants out of office. Oh the irony!

[The Magistrate]

9. Wrecker Nader, Sir

Does not want the Republican reactionaries out of office. He wants them to destroy the Bemocratic Party for him, in the hope that he will emerge to rule the wreckage of it as Captain of the Left. In this frankly stated desire, he becomes the willing tool of the worst elements of reaction in our polity in their designs against the people.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[geek tragedy]

19. How about this firm?

<snip>
Nader's bid for the Arizona ballot began this spring when members of his campaign sought a contract with Arno Political Consultants, a California-based Republican consulting firm that has handled past ballot-qualification efforts for GOP icons like Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, as well as anti-immigrant groups like U.S. English.

Arno's client list also comprises a virtual Who's Who of the corporate cartels Nader routinely rails against, including Occidental Petroleum, Phillip Morris, and Wal-Mart. Arno Political Consultants rebuffed the Nader campaign's request. "I thought it would be bad for us to go in with anyone like Nader," said the company's co-director, Michael Arno. "And even though I don't know Bush personally, I have a relationship with some of the people close to him, so I didn't want to be part of anything that could be seen as nefarious. I have too much respect for the process." Despite the rejection, Arno says, he has been repeatedly approached by members of Nader's campaign this month to handle their ballot qualification effort in New Mexico. He has refused these appeals as well.
<snip>

So much for that progressive, anti-corporate movement.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=7954

[mstrsplinter326]

23. So ralphy is bad because he doesn't have

Inhouse polling and signature firms. Whatever, if you have to choose a polling firm why not choose one that has good track record in Arizona.
I am not defending ralph, but A) I doubt that's a whole truth and B)Who the pollster knows or has worked for before makes him a business man, neither inherently good or bad.

[geek tragedy]

24. Don't you think it's a little funny

that a mercenary, commercial firm rejected Nader because they have principles?

[mstrsplinter326]

25. Neo nazis have principles... is that funny

If consorting with Cheney's pals and doing their bidding means having the kind of principles you hope to extoll then you've found the wrong website.

[geek tragedy]

27. Well, Ralphie desperately wanted to do businesss

with these Neo-Nazis.

[mstrsplinter326]

28. no a sub section of ralph's campaign management did the calling

and desperate might be a strong word. Like I said before, I doubt this is a whole truth. Just like when people say known republican Ben Stein gives money to ralph nader - that's not a whole truth. Ben and ralph are personal friends, moreover ben is a TRUE conservative who cares about the environment and american job loss.

[orlin2k]

26. Oregon is a swing state

it is not a safe state. It barely went to Gore last election.
Yes, there are very liberal cities like Eugene and most of
Portland but there are a lot of towns that are conservative.
And a lot of those liberal especially in Eugen may go to Nader
if he is on the ballot. So Ralphy is a problem in Oregon and
every other swing state. Nader is a spoiler and we can't
afford him this election cycle. 

[mstrsplinter326]

29. gore didn't win his or clinton's home state

so if states with strong liberal percentages or political ties aren't won by a candidate who should handily win there it probably says somthing more about the candidate than those who are running against him.

I've repeated this a million times: If we were to wait for the democrats to tell us when it was 'safe' to build a third party we would wait for eternity.

[Skittles]

35. Bush did not win his home state either

Connecticut. What the f*** does that have to do with ANYTHING???

[wyethwire]

37. The Nader Philosophy of Lifesaving

Mr. Nader, it says here that you tied a rock around a man's legs while swimming and he drowned.

NADER: Look it's not my fault, if he had been a stronger swimmer he never would have drowned, rock or no rock.

[mstrsplinter326]

40. Where as kerry....

Would say, "Look I know bush's policies will eventually make you believe your only option is jumping off a cliff, so I am going to make sure you know at least six months in advance so you can find an acceptable cliff."

When speeding off a cliff, kerry would let off the gas, true leftists (notice: not using nader's name) will be hitting the breaks.

[Jack The Tab]

5. Aren't there pictures...

somewhere of a leading conservative of some state and the Nader representative of that state meeting somewhere?

I'm sorry this is so vague, but I think I saw a post on Buzzflash about this a few days ago.

Naders whole campaign stinks to high hell this time around, particularly when he has been a guest at Grover Norquist's weekly Hate speech talking points breakfasts.

[The Magistrate]

7. In Arizona, Mr. Tab

They were up yesterday in the Campaign Forum, if recollection serves....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[struggle4progress]

17. Got a link on Ralph at the Grover Norquist breakfasts? eom

[Frances]

10. Saint Ralph says that we shouldn't vote Dems

because they are not 100% pure.

It's wrong for Dems to ever do anything for policial purposes, but it's Ok for Ralph to accept help from Repubs?

[Democat]

11. Ralph Nader is nothing more than a right wing enabler

He is not a part of the left.

[checks-n-balances]

12. I wonder if these callers are telling people who they REALLY are

That's probably a really stupid question, because they're probably POSING as his supporters. If they said they were actually rethugs, SURELY people would be thinking twice about voting Nader. Surely if these two groups stand for "family values" then they would't be lying, will they??

[wyethwire]

13. Daily Kos has a phone script

Click here for a scan of the phone script

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/6/25/101933/449

Clearly identifying themselves as "Citizens for a Sound Economy" (a GOP group founded by Reagan's Budget Director)

They clearly state there intention is to hurt John Kerry by getting Nader on the ballot.

They are calling Republicans, not Greens, and asking them to help get Nader on the ballot.

[checks-n-balances]

15. Thanks for setting me straight.

Gotta admire the purity and principles of those Christian family types who enjoy hurting veterans.

[sangh0]

30. Look at that

The Repukes are being more honest that Nadir.

[hightime]

14. Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn seek to help Ralph Nader.

Interesting bedmates. FOOLS.

[struggle4progress]

18. I don't know Zinn's position.

I think it's fairly clear Chomsky doesn't want to help Nader over Kerry but hopes that Nader can apply left-pressure on the Dems.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. You know it was the repiglicans that contributed heavy to Nader

back in 1999 and 2000 to persuade him to run for president. They succeeded.

[AlFrankenFan]

21. Just like on This Just In

That conservative cartoon on Spike TV that I think got cancelled. Brian Newport made a "Republicans for Ralph" website, and Nader came to the bar to thank him for his support.

"Yep, I support you all the way through November 1st, 2004!"
"The election is November 2nd."
"Exactly!"

[Dr Fate]

31. Nader should do the moral thing & support Democrats.

He needs to get out of bed with Bush pronto.

[sweetladybug]

33. I didn't vote for Nader in 2000. I voted for Gore and I will vote for

Kerry this year, but Nader has the right to run for President and I do not think it was his fault that Gore was unable to take the oath of office for President in 2000. THE REPUBLICANS STOLE THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECT! Nader is a smart man and he knows what the Republicans did in 2000 and I think if it comes down to it that he will throw his support behind Kerry before he sees Bush in the whitehouse for another 4 yrs. I also think his ads will be against Bush and his policies not attacks on Kerry. In a way it makes sense to me for both the Democrats and Greens have attack ads against Bush. It will be 2 against 1 exposing Bush for the asshole that he is. I could be wrong but I think Nader will throw his support behind Kerry this time if need be. (Just my opinion)
ELECT KERRY 2004!!!!

[Dr Fate]

36. "Conservatives Seek to Help Nader"

Nader has the power to end his alliance with them. You call it what you want.

[niu rou hao chi]

34. don't limit choice

Perhaps this is just the next ring of the American political process. A new campaign strategy to beat the other party. What really matters is that you practice good citizenship and vote. Vote for whomever you think will do the best job. Vote for whomever you think will win. Vote for whomever your teacher/parents/friends/party/union told you to vote for. That is one of the great things about this country. We actually get to vote for our leaders. Having lived in a communist country I know what it is like to not have that right.

My point is that as soon as we start acting to limit our choices we are limiting our voice in society. Instead of looking at Nader as the devil himself we should look at what his role is in this process. His role is to either:

A) bring issues that the two parties are not discussing into the popular dialog

or

B) evilly crush any hopes of a Democratic win.

If the latter is the case I would think this would be quite easily proven and those who would vote for him would be easily persuaded.

[dolstein]

38. Bullshit -- this has nothing to do with choice

It has everything to do with whether Nader is simply allowing himself to become a tool of right-wing Republicans.

If Nader had any sense of honor, he would insist that his name be kept OFF the ballot if it turns out that the only reason he became eligible for a spot on the ballot in the first place was because of a Republican-orchestrated signature campaign.

If Nader is able to convince enough like-minded wrong-headed leftists to support his candidacy to earn a spot on the ballot, fine. But if he has to depend on the signatures of right-wing Republicans who have ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of supporting him in the general election, then he may as well cut the crap and admit that he's running to hurt Kerry's chances.

[The Magistrate]

39. Indeed, Mr. Dolstein

Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do.

Wrecker Nader's current activity is a textbook illustration....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[nonkultur]

41. Why not just...

Prop up the Constitution party (Christian Right) or Libertarians (Small Govt) to draw votes away from Bush?

Fight fire with fire.

Nader is not the only 3rd party candidate. There are alot of right wing/conservative people who will not vote for Kerry but do not want to vote for Bush either. They will vote for Bush unless they know of an alternative.