UN Blasts Israeli Marriage Law

[Pert_UK]

"A United Nations panel has urged Israel to repeal a new law forcing Palestinians who marry Israelis to live separate lives.

The Geneva-based Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination unanimously approved a resolution saying the Israeli law violated an international human rights treaty..."

Full story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3152651.stm

[Paschall]

1. Israel's not gonna qualify for EU membership with laws like that (n/t)

[Zuni]

2. I hate to sound like a

Republican but the UN would pass resolutions against israel for inclement weather.

Needless to say, These marriage laws are grotesque.

[VermontDem2004]

5. No not really

This is racial discrimination, and coming from Isreal, it doesn't surprise me they would do something like this.

[aquart]

17. Of course it doesn't, dear.

Because you know what those kind of people are like.

I understand the Arabs embrace such couples. Don't they?

[durutti]

36. Actually...

Christians and Jews are both considered "people of the Book" in Islam. A Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jew.

Of course, this is hardly ever the case in practice anymore, since a lot of anti-Semitism has arisen in the Arab world in reaction to Zionism.

[0007]

8. I agree!

It appears "these" marriage laws are influenced by old worn out doctrines.

[Tinoire]

13. Do you really believe that? n/t

[aquart]

16. Can't even call them racist since the DNA turned out the same.

It's the people who find each other who are the way to peace. It's criminal on either side to try to prevent that.

[Rhiannon12866]

3. This thread would probably really take off if you posted it in FA/NS

which is the proper forum for this. This has been a frequent topic there and it, understandably, has garnered strong opinions and many replies.

As for my opinion, this law is unconscionable. People should be able to marry and live where they choose without fear of consequences. I am very glad that the U.N. has stepped in. They need to weigh in, and heavily, on more than this one terribly discriminatory law in the Middle East. Need I say more? Have they forgotten Iraq?!
:shrug:

[The Stranger]

6. True, in the FA/NS forum, you'd get people who defend Apartheid walls,

some of the most bigoted and racist government-sponsored discrimination and laws on the planet, and the military dispossession of a native population -- not a century ago but right here during 2003. It is part of a mass psychological denial.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. I agree. I don't understand this mentality

in this day and age. I especially don't understand why it exists on DU. You could not have made this statement in that forum without igniting a serious flame war, or worse.:shrug:

[aquart]

22. NATIVE population?

Uh, this population you're talking about are Arabs, right? Speak Arabic? Moslems? Came from Arabia and killed off whoever objected and moved in?

Poor pitiful Palestinians.

Where are they to go? They want Israel. We should give them Israel.

Jordan won't take them. Lebanon won't take them. Nobody really wants them. Can't imagine why no one wants such nice noble people.

Let's give them what they want. The Israelis are evil. The Palestinians are good. Let's give them Israel.

Excellent plan. Now everyone who counts will be happy.

[Mal]

32. Since when have Palestinians counted?

The Yanks and Brits have certainly never given a damn. But the Palestinians were robbed of their land, and have been fighting ever since to get it back. Your argument is apparently that the Palestinians killed the previous owners and took the land in the first place and therefore don't deserve it, but, by that argument, if Israel ever had the land before...
HOW DO YOU THINK THEY GOT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Every bit of turf on this planet has had previous owners killed, and new owners move in. Israel may be the worst in this conflict only because they have the power to be, and the Palestinians would be just as bad if they could, but the real problem here is America's naked bias combined with their total hypocrisy.
Does America guarantee Palestine's loans?

[Rhiannon12866]

34. The British care about the Palestinian cause very much

Why do you think that Tony Blair has continued to support George Bush* in his illegal and bloody war with Iraq even though he has gone from being one of the most popular prime ministers in history to becoming an object of derision and ridicule?:shrug:

Part of the ``deal'' that Blair made with Bush* was that he would support him in his war with Iraq, despite the dissent of the British people, if Bush* would finally make a move in attempting to solve the I/P conflict, a very important issue in Britain.

[durutti]

38. Yes, native

Uh, this population you're talking about are Arabs, right? Speak Arabic? Moslems? Came from Arabia and killed off whoever objected and moved in?

I hate to break it to you, but prior to this century, conquest was the law of the land. All land was acquired through force.

Palestine itself was conquered and occupied by many different groups.

However, the Palestinians should still be considered the native inhabitants of the area. Why? Because each of those invading forces assimilated the conquered people, going back to the original inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites. In other words, the Palestinians are the descendents of the original inhabitants of Palestine.

The Bible provides a highly mythologized history of the Israelites. Archaeological evidence indicates that Israel was at most a large tribal territory. It never had the borders assigned to it in the Old Testament. It never covered all of historic Palestine, or even the area assigned to it by the partition plan.

Poor pitiful Palestinians.

Where are they to go? They want Israel. We should give them Israel.

Some of them do. Others just want a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.

More to the point, though: they deserve Israel and the Occupied Territories. The Zionists migrated to Palestine largely illegally, and acquired land immorally and illegally, protected by British colonialism. Israel's independence was declared illegally.

Palestine forms of a natural geographic and economic unit. Even a Palestinian state in all of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, and East Jerusalem, with no Israeli interference, would still be largely dependent on, and therefore controlled by, Israel.

Now, I'm not suggesting that the Arabs should "push the Jews into the sea". I'm simply stating that it's fairly ridiculous to continue to insist the Palestinian compromise, when they've already made a huge compromise by handing over 78 percent of the land that's rightfully theirs.

Jordan won't take them. Lebanon won't take them. Nobody really wants them. Can't imagine why no one wants such nice noble people.

There was a time when nobody really wanted Jews, either. Does that mean that Jews were worth less as human beings? Of course not.

And by the way, Jordan has been taking them since 1948. Palestinians have full civil and political rights in Jordan.

Let's give them what they want. The Israelis are evil. The Palestinians are good. Let's give them Israel.

Excellent plan. Now everyone who counts will be happy.

I have a better idea: a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem; the right of return or compensation for Palestinian refugees; and true democracy in Israel (i.e., full political, civil and religious rights for Palestinian Israelis, abolishment of the Jewish National Fund (which controls almost all land in Israel and won't sell it to Palestinians), etc.).

[durutti]

37. Yup

The typical line of reasoning over there: Israel only kills terrorists. How do we know they're terrorists? Because Israel attacks them!

[Voltaire99]

4. Make US aid contingent on repeal of the law

This vulgar dehumanizing law is not wholly unexpected, given the colonizer's atrocious human rights record, but we should not be subsidizing this policy (let alone apartheid walls or any other state brutalities). America did not overcome its own vile history of racist marriage laws only to become the underwriter of the same abroad.

[durutti]

7. Better Yet

Make U.S. aid contingent on Israeli compliance with all UNSC resolutions.

[aquart]

18. Ah. The Palestinian human rights record is admirable, though.

A model for all to follow. Not onto a bus, of course.

Is colonizer the new in word? Where is the Jewish homeland, then, if it isn't Israel? We know where the Arabs came from: Arabia. That's their language, culture, religion. Funny they don't want to go home. They could invoke the law of the return and go straight to Mecca or Medina.

Probably a really good reason why they left and colonized Palestine. Oh. Does that make them colonizers? Or just invaders?

But they are fine people who are very proud of their bits and pieces of children. Admirable people. We should follow their example.

[Mal]

33. "The differance between devils and angels,

is the same as that between terrorists and freedom-fighters"; Eric, Terry Pratchett.
You seem to regard the Palestinian use of suicide bombers as terrorist acts, killing innocent people. Do you regard the use of "precision-guided" (excuse me while I vomit) rockets into crowded residential buildings by Israeli helicopters as noble and courageous? Perhaps if the US would supply the Palestinians with military hardware, they could fight in a fashion deemed more "honourable".

You point out that Israel belongs to Jews, and the Palestinians invaded. OK, lets go there. Let's just say that anyone who invaded and colonized someone else's land has to leave and go back where they came from.
Where do you live?
The US? The Indians (native Americans to those thin-skinned) will probably be glad to see your back. Returning to Britain?
In Britain, the Normans came from Normandy, who came from Norway, Sweden, etc. They subjugated the Saxons. Before then, there were Picts, and a bunch of others, not to mention the people of Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Isle of Man (sorry whoever I missed, and I know it's a lot).
In Australia, I'm pretty sure the Aborigines wouldn't mind seeing our backs.
Do you really believe the Jews were exempt from this? READ YOUR BIBLE! (The odds are you're Yank; you may even believe half what it says) The Israeli people came to the promised land, slaughtering everyone in their way, and who already lived there.
Guess they're invaders, too. Not much moral superiority there.

So perhaps we should worry less about how people get somewhere, and more about how they act once they're there. This marriage law is a racist law, made by a racist, exclusive, people.
And if you don't believe the Israelis are racist, check out how the Armenians are treated.

[Julien Sorel]

35. Come on, you're trying to reason with a fool.

Look at his own arguments: on the one hand, 'The DNA is the same;' on the other, the Arabs came and killed everyone who was there and replaced them. You should be able to tell by the general shrill tone and utter lack of reasoning that this guy is just shooting his mouth off without trying to make real points; it's a waste of your time to use reason on someone like that, because he has no use for it.

By the way, 'the Arabs,' meaning Palestinians, did not come just from Arabia; the current Palestinians are a mix of many races, Berbers, Arabs, Turkmen, Persian, and Greeks among them. One of the problems with dealing with someone like this clown is that they throw out so much bullshit in order to confuse the discussion that it's easy to make the mistake of thinking some of it isn't really bullshit.

[NashVegas]

10. This is Just Stunning

But even more: I don't recall this thing getting ANY notice at the time it went down.

[Tinoire]

11. It got plenty of notice

but it was shunted down to F/A where, like a lot of important news that would help the American voter understand the mess we're now in, it was un-noticed by most.

It didn't get enormous play in the US papers either because well, knowing about such laws might confuse the American public into equating Israel with Apartheid South Africa and fuel the growing US and international boycott movement.

This is extremely sad and disturbing but it's no surprise- Sharon's government has been anything but progressive.

[aquart]

19. What would it make us understand, dear?

That Israelis are so frightened that they could believe attending a cocktail party with a half-Arab couple would be an opening for less altruistic Arabs to attend and kill all?

But then, who would suspect a Palestinian of doing such a thing? They have never, never murdered any of their own for showing an inclination to peace or accommodation with the Israelis. No, they haven't. Haven't mutilated anyone they consider a peacenik or collaborator. They're good, honest people and only want a peaceful happy life.

I mean, that's not something the American voter needs to know either, is it?

[burythehatchet]

27. what the hell is with your condascending "Dear" BS

I'm always amazed when I see posters who don't have an original, thoughtful idea. Their approach is only to respond to the overwhenlimg number of people who have learned that the policies of Israel are part and parcel of the policies of PNAC. Any challenege to the failed policies of the US and Israel draw only a hysterical and idiotic response. This is the reason why I won't go into that stinking scum pond called Foreign Affairs/National Security. It is where these trolls exist ... and should remain.
:mad:

[Tinoire]

31. That condescending shit when you have no other argument

is, thankfully, pretty rare here. I just atrribute it to "a hysterical and idiotic response" and move on, glad that people have exposed the fact that they have nothing substantial with which to defend the indefensible.

It's actually good to have those responses for all to see the pathetic lack of argument.

[Tinoire]

29. Hadn't thought of that. I'll remember that

next time a half Black couple invites me to a cock-tail party; that could be an opening for all sorts of frightful things to happen to me, maybe even an opening for less "altrustic" Blacks to "attend and kill all". Look how many Black-Americans are locked up for absolutely vile crimes. Maybe I should write to my Congressman demanding he enact laws forbidding these inter-marriages to protect innocent party-goers? :shrug: After all the, the people must be protected right?


As a Black woman it's a major disappointment to me to see American Jews who marched side by side with us in places like Selma, Nashville, amd Mississippi excuse or even condone such a racist law. The people who enacted this law would certainly NOT have marched with us. Why are you getting so upset and not calling a right-wing implemented racist law what it is?

Blacks were once vilified and demonized in this country. Every Black man was out to rape a White Woman. Defilement... Racial...

The ADL, which usually condones everything the Likud does can't quite bring itself to defend this law and has " expressed concern" http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/4289_62.htm

How many Palestinian terrorists have perpetrated attacks after marrying Israelis? How many suicide bombers have done this? Stripping innocent people of their rights is shameful! Do you REALLY think this will acomplish anything other than providing people additional ammunition to condemn Israel for apartheid? And things were going so seimmingly well with that shiny new wall! :sarcasm:

If America ever passed such a law, I wouldn't have the heart to defend it anymore; not even half-heartedly. I would be heart-broken. This seems to be the typical response from groups such as Gush Shalom, Jewish Voices for Peace and B'tselem.

"This is a racist law that decides who can live here according to racist criteria," Yael Stein from the Israeli rights group B'tselem.

This is another leap towards institutionalized apartheid.

On edit: Cry The Beloved Country There is no "dear" in this thread.

[Rhiannon12866]

40. Sharon's government is a coalition

To gain and remain in power, they have had to join forces with the hard-line right-wing contingency. They do not hold a majority. As Tinoire says, they are far from progressive. This is a major reason for such laws and yet another stumbling block on the ``road map to peace.''

[Rhiannon12866]

12. It was a HUGE topic in the FA/NS forum

You might want to check there for news about this region, since it's the only place on DU that the I/P conflict can be discussed, because feelings run so very high.

[Julien Sorel]

14. Feelings are more important than facts in the F/A forum.

[Tinoire]

15. You're Right , I should have added that!

Yes it was HUGE news in F/A where the news, like a lot of important news affecting world affairs, goes un-noticed by the majority of people. It was a huge story in the UK/European papers yet nary a peep in the US papers. It's convenient how these stories are given little exposure in the apparent fear that they might fuel the rapidly growing movement to boycott Israel as people make disturbing comparisons to Apartheid South Africa.

At a time when the US House Majority leader is actively working with a traveling concert of Israeli Ministers to kill the Road Map by riling up the Christian Right and Jewish Extremists, it is inexcusable that stories like this go un-noticed. People won't start noticing until Al-Aqsa is blown up, the genetically engineered Red Heiffer sacrificed for the requisite purification ceremonies prior to the rebuilding of the Temple Mount and then all of a sudden, AGAIN, everyone will walk around wringing their hands and wailing "Why do they hate us?". A quick glance at the prominent and graphic message on the home page of the House Majority Leader, Tom Delay, should sound off incessant warning bells and send chills down people's backs. http://www.majorityleader.gov/ Iraq? We ain't seen nothing yet! Sharon is preparing Bush for an imminent attack on Iran as Turkey begs the US to stop Israel from playing with fire around the Temple Mount. All of this goes un-noticed in the US as even here, at DU, people prattle on that the only Presidential candidate aware of this danger is unelectable instead of working their ass off to elect him not realizing that the US and the world stand on the brink of a catastrophe.

The next time I hear people asking "Why do they hate us" I doubt I'll be able to contain my rage.

The latest obscenity is that as the majority think the Road Map would go just swimmingly if the xxxxx would only xxxx (to avoid a calculated flame war which would get this thread shunted to F/A), the Israeli government is giving young people over $22,000 (half in grants, half in a loan) to go live in the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories. Your tax dollars at work as almost all Presidential candidates announce that they are fully behind the current path the current Right-wing government is Israel is on.

[aquart]

20. Genetically engineered red heifer?

God, it's so good to be able to hate the Jews again! That holocaust was such a downer. Everybody had to be nice to them. But now that they've picked up guns and decided NOT to be casually murdered, they can be loathed again!

Ah, the freedom! The world has righted itself and all's as it should be.

[Tinoire]

28. Yes. Genetically Engineered by Clyde Lott, Christian Fundie

There are kooks all over. Are you denying that? I like to keep an eye on our fundies over here. Why do you things there's been so much increased traffic between the extremist Ministers in Israel, Tom Delay, and the Christian Right Ministers over here? Do a Du search on Benny Elon's last visit to the US. Another one came right after him before Delay headed over there. You don't think these people are playing cards do you?

Rabbi Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute and Christian Fundie Minister Clyde Lott (interview)of the Canaan Land Restoration of Israel have been working on this for years.

Stanley Goldfoot of the Jerusalem Temple Foundation has been raising about $100 million/year for this and other projects. Pat Robertson's 700 Club has also genererously donated.

Hundreds of heifers were shipped for this project beginning in 1998.
------------------------------------

<snip>

Clyde is a licensed minister, a graduate of Mississippi State University where he majored in animal science. He is a prominent cattleman working cattle shows throughout the U.S. Chaim Richman is an Israeli, but he was born, raised and educated in the Unites States. He is highly respected among the orthodox rabbis. This helps him as he works with Israeli attorneys, government officials, etc. getting ready to receive the red cattle as fast as they can be shipped.

<snip>

http://www.templemount.org/heifer.html
--------------------

The first engineered heifer, Melody, was disqualified when she prouted white hairs on her tail so they went back to the drawing board. If you choose to google this, also google the term "parah adumah". That is the proper term for it. http://shamash.org/listarchives/reb-shlomo/log0307

You can read more about it here:

www.jpost.com/com/Archive/05.Jun.1997/ Features/Article-9.html

[JackSwift]

21. Sounds like the nazi

marriage and racial purity laws.

[aquart]

23. Of course, it does.

Now that the Jews are Nazis, no one in Europe has to feel guilty anymore.

Whew! That's a relief.

[sujan]

24. Of course

Good little Israel can do no wrong.

[tinnypriv]

26. Have you finished?

n/t

[yakmoe]

25. .

They learned alot from the Nazis, it seems.

[Tinoire]

30. Hmmm...

There are many Israeli and US Jews denouncing this law. Right here at DU several have either loudly denounced it for what it is or preferred not to even comment. If you do a google search for the Jewish Peace forums, you will find many angry, pained denouncements. I would be happy to dig up some links if you'd like.

This is mostly the Right Wing, currently in power in Israel, showing its true colors. The good news is that such a blatant display of discrimination makes fewer people want to defend this sort of behavior. Especially when such a law passes 53 for to 25 against.

I'm sure Trent Lott & Co would love to pass similar laws in the states. They could always use the "War on Drugs" as their excuse I guess.

On edit: Here's the thread relating to this in Foreign Affairs: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=3477#3479 Interesting read.

[truthisfreedom]

39. what's with all the article titles using "blasts" and "rips?"

there must be more effective words than these violent-sounding, overused verbs.