US army stops patrols in Baghdad's powderkeg Shiite suburb

[NNN0LHI]

Gee. What a difference 24 hours can make.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030816/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_baghdad_shiite&cid=1514&ncid=1473

BAGHDAD (AFP) - The US military has stopped patrols in Baghdad's Sadr City district after an incident there that many residents of the vast and impoverished suburb saw as an assault on their Shiite Muslim faith, police said.

"They stopped patrolling here after Wednesday's incident," Iraqi police Colonel Maruf Omran, head of the area's Al-Habibia police station, told AFP Saturday.

An American soldier, who asked not to be named, at a US base on the edge of the district formerly known as Saddam City confirmed all patrols there had been cancelled.

An Iraqi was killed in Wednesday's clashes, sparked when US troops in a helicopter removed a religious flag from a communications tower in the predominantly Shiite district.

more

[bfusco]

1. It's just the beginning of things to come

First was Fallujah and now Sadr City. How long and how many more lives will be lost before we are driven out of the entire country inhumiliation with our tail between out legs?

[gratuitous]

3. Shrewd observation

Because if the military shies away from the "powder keg" areas and can be driven out by stiff resistance, how long before other municipalities adopt the same strategy?

I'm not saying that stiff resistance needs to be met with "overwhelming" military force, but now that we're there, we need to get truly serious about winning hearts and minds, which may involve being a little (and maybe more than a little) humble.

[NNN0LHI]

5. If someone were to invade and occupy America I don't think there...

...would be anything that the occupying force could do to win over my heart and mind short of leaving ASAP. And if they didn't leave America I would keep killing the invaders every chance I had until either they left or they killed me. Same thing would go for any American who collaborated with the invaders. That is a fact.

Don

[Mika]

8. Don, what if the 'invaders' really were 'liberators'?

?

[NNN0LHI]

10. Then I would thank them and ask them to leave as the Iraqi's have done

And then if they didn't leave...

Don

[Mal]

18. You can't "Liberate" people from themselves

You can only help them do it themselves, and you don't do that by taking their country away from them.
If the majority forces in a country are foreign, if the leaders are foreign selected, what you have is NOT a "Liberation". The truth is, Iraq was a free country (with a dictator as a leader, but a LOCAL dictator) before the invasion, now it's a conquered nation.

[Mal]

17. Precisely.

Collaborators must die. Even small jobs, unimportant cleaning tasks, create a feeling a 'fellowship', and that the invaders can be 'lived with'. Invaders must be kept isolated, paranoid, and totally unwelcome.

[bfusco]

6. Agree but I don't think we are any where close to being humble

I agree that we need to win over the hearts and minds of Iraqis but this administration is failing miserably. Walking away entirely would create a power vacuum and engulf the region in violence unitl a strong man would emerge to brutaly supress and stabalize the country creating who knows what and causing massive bloodshed. The problem is this administration has not reached a point of humility to accept that their plan (or lack there of) is not working. It maybe means going to the UN and surrending control. This won't happen yet becasue Bush and Co wants to continue to pass out fat contracts to their buddies. It means allowing the Iraqis to select their own form of goverment instead of US appointed councils; even if it means they put in an Islamic theocracy. It means that soldiers will need to start understanding, working within and respecting Iraqi culture instead of coming across as dominering bullies. This administration doesn't know the word humility and I feel we will have far greater calamities and loss of life before we get really serious about rebuilding Iraq. Will it be too late at that point?

[alfredo]

7. It's too late for that.

the die is cast.

[maryallen]

9. You're NEVER going to "win the hearts and minds" of people ...

In a land where you have already killed upwards of 10,000 of their citizens, injured countless thousands, raped and pillaged the land, and stolen their valuables and natural resources.

NEVER!

[LiberalFighter]

16. I don't think it is a matter of failing miserably

It is a matter of Bush and co don't give a rats ass.

[Rose Siding]

2. Sure are being "unofficial" about it.

Must be some face saving going on. Or they haven't really suspended them.

[realFedUp]

4. but the zoo's working!

good if you're a tiger...

[Barrett808]

11. But, but, just yesterday the Army said it wouldn't leave

US army rejects call to stop patrols in Baghad's powder keg Sadr City

BAGHDAD (AFP) - The US army refused to stop its patrols in Baghdad's Sadr City despite warnings from Shiite Muslim leaders there that the restive district of two million people could explode if American troops return.

"We still have a security policy that needs to go on in that area," said army spokesman Colonel Guy Shields.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030815/wl_afp/iraq_us

[leftofthedial]

12. just like Afghanistan

we'll gradually withdraw until we only control our little bases that get shot up on a regular basis, like Fort Apache.

[expatriot]

13. a pocket of re-unoccupied Iraq emerges....

...this is the beginning of the next beginning.

[Warren Stuart]

14. Power abhors a vacuum

If the US military is not patrolling then who is?

If the US forces cannot maintain control over areas that should be friendly to them, then this is a disturbing development.

Power is an intoxicating drug, once tasted, it is fiercely yielded.

[NickB79]

15. Ahhh, the beginnings of another Islamic/Religious state

Isn't that what we said we would NEVER allow to develop there? We start withdrawing from areas because the religious leaders are telling us to go or else, and the religious leaders become the power in the area. Other areas follow this example, and soon they will either consolidate to drive out the US and become West Iran, or they become like Afghanistan and Somalia, rival warlords fighting one another with US troops caught in the middle. Of course, there's nothing we can do to stop this, because if we try to continue patrols and fight them, we will be totally outnumbered. Great plans, you Bush morans!!!! Lets see how much money Halliburton can make when their employees are getting gunned down.