Blast Hits Baghdad Water Supply; U.S. Soldiers Shot

[Kellanved]

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A major water pipeline in northern Baghdad was breached on Sunday, flooding nearby streets and cutting off the supply to parts of the Iraqi capital, after what locals said was a bomb attack.

...

In the latest ambush in Baghdad, two U.S. soldiers were shot and wounded as they left a restaurant on Saturday, the military said. Both were in a stable condition in hospital.


Iraqi police and security guards have also come under attack from anti-U.S. fighters who accuse them of collaborating with occupying troops.

...


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030817/wl_nm/iraq_dc&cid=574&ncid=1478

[0007]

1. 'Tis been relative quiet the last few dalys

unless Rummy got the lid on things going on in Iraq.

[Kellanved]

2. this might be the reason; btw 3 days, three pipelines

US army stops patrols in Baghdad's powderkeg Shiite suburb:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030816/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_baghdad_shiite&cid=1514&ncid=1473

[SoCalDem]

3. They don't have to "beat us" to win..

Small bands of guerrilla insurgents , under cover of darkness, blowing up stuff here and there will do the trick..

Disruption of what little services that there are will destroy any remaining morale..

If our people spend all their time guarding water pipes and trying to repair breaches, all the while , dodging hostile fire, it will not take long for the whole house of cards to fall.:(

[izzie]

4. Think back to say Fr. WW2

Germany took over half the country and put in 'their' people but the underground never gave in.

[MiltonLeBerle]

6. You don't even have to go back that far-

Think Afghanistan and the Soviets.

The guys in the Kremlin have to be getting a chuckle out of Georgie's Iraqi adventure.

[Emboldened Chimp]

11. Oh, yes, the Russians are loving this

They see Afghanistan written all over this. They know the longer we're there, the worse for us. Meanwhile, the Russians sit back and gleefully rub their little hands together.

Wonder if the Russians will start running guns and weapons to the Iraqis, like we did with the Afghanis? China, too. Just send them through Iran and Syria.

[number6]

30. they don't need to....

sell weapons to a third party.....
thats plausible deniability..

[Dan]

38. Laughter...

Speaking of Afghanistan..thats a hell hole too. We own the day they own the night...

Our military can & will win all the battles; but I suspect that we are going to lose the war in both places....or at least in Afghanistan, because I forgot *Idiot says we've already won in Iraq.

[dArKeR]

5. Saboteurs blew a hole in a giant Baghdad water main

Saboteurs blew a hole in a giant Baghdad water main, forcing engineers to cut off water to the capital on Sunday.

Meanwhile, two ferocious blazes raged out of control on Sunday along the pipeline that exports Iraq's oil to the north.

The twin acts of sabotage are complicating efforts to bring stability to war-torn Iraq.

The fires on the 950km pipeline stretching from northern Kirkuk to Turkey, 200km northeast of Baghdad, were within kilometers of each other.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1403460,00.html

http://darker0darker.tripod.com/

[KharmaTrain]

8. Was this the pipeline...

that was re-opened recently?

Oh, well...more work for Halliburton to tax us "Real 'Muricans"

[Mari333]

7. Get the US Troops OUT of there

NOW...this place is going to get worse and worse...
DEMS better start yelling for the UN to get involved...this is escalating into Vietnam redux ..

[bfusco]

9. and it will continue to get worse

Shrub won't do this until things spiral out of control and then it will be probably be too late. Surrending the operation to the UN means they can't continue to pass out fat contracts to their buddies.

[aquart]

10. Smart guerillas will target the corporate guys.

Make even the highest danger pay not worth it to civilian workers.

Neither Bush nor Halliburton give a shit how many soldiers die, but skilled oilfield workers?

At some point they will figure that out.

If it becomes too expensive to do business, the corporations will call for the UN intervention and make the calls necessary to bribe those guys instead of the Bushco boys.

[Guaranteed]

12. Look, you guys....

Let's not be hoping more of our boys get killed. I was totally and completely against this war, but as far as I'm concerned we need to stay there until we finish the job and fix Iraq's "infrastructure." Bush needs to pay BIG TIME for doing this, but he's not paying when our soldiers are getting killed. The damage has already been done, for him. It's quite enough that he lied and so many have died already.
Let's all just pray that we can get this thing finished and get the hell out of there as quickly as we can.
I do understand where you're coming from though. I'm extremely angry about this.
:thumbsup:

[htuttle]

13. Come on, nobody is wishing that

I think there's only one solution, and that's to attempt to deal with the UN -- probably on their terms -- and get US troops out of there.

WE CANNOT FIX THIS ALONE NO MATTER HOW LONG WE STAY!

That would be the type of thinking that kept us in Vietnam a decade longer than we should have been.

We DO need to make recompense, but it's going to have to be primarily financial in nature. And it's going to cost A LOT.

And none of this is going to happen while Bush is president. While he's president, there's going to be nothing but death over there. I just don't see any other possible outcomes. He's NOT going to admit he f*cked up. He CAN'T.

(ps. the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog, as retold in 'The Crying Game' comes to mind).

[Guaranteed]

18. Yeah, we KNEW he was a scorpion....

Anyway, I totally agree with you. We desperately need to throw him out, and get the UN involved. Getting the UN in there just makes too MUCH sense, it seems.

[htuttle]

20. Bush and his cronies don't want to give up the money

They decided not to go to the UN last week, because they were concerned about renegotiation of their corporate contracts, particularly the oil-related ones.

The parable of the chimp with his hand stuck in the cookie jar because he won't let go of the cookie inside is probably most appropriate on this count.

There isn't a 'job to finish' as I hear so often, but only a crime to be held accountable for (violation of the UN charter in Bush's case -- Armed Robbery if you or I did the same thing).

[Guaranteed]

24. To use another allegory

...we can burn the place down then leave, or we can burn it down and help them rebuild it (whether they like it or not).
But YES agreed all the way except for there not being a job to finish part.

[htuttle]

25. Bush isn't capable of rebuilding Iraq in any fashion

It's that 'scorpion nature' again.

Look at Afghanistan for example of his 'nation building' abilities...

The longer we stay, the more damage will be done. There is no beneficial component.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. htuttle you are absolutely correct!...turn Iraq over to UN NOW!

bring our troops HOME NOW!

[juajen]

45. Well, after all,

he did say "He wouldn't do any nation building". Didn't say anything about not doing any nation destroying, however.

[AnnabelLee]

26. "Mine mine mine mine!

I'm a happy miser!"
http://us.st3.yimg.com/store5.yimg.com/I/igadget_1753_45357936

[Occulus]

50. surround a scorpion with fire

and it will sting itself to death.

How do we make * sting himself to death?

[diamond14]

37. It's TWO years in Afganistan...OUR soldiers are still being KILLED

in Afganistan...the only area under our control is part of the capital city, the drug crop is the BIGGEST economic boost to the country, the warlords are still running the country, osama is still around, the taliban is doing better than ever...

and for this TWO YEAR mess, WE the taxpayers are paying $ ONE BILLION DOLLARS a month....I wonder how many school teacher that would pay for ?...or how many of OUR seniors could have life-saving medications ?....or how much decent housing for OUR homeless Veterans could be built for $ ONE BILLION DOLLARS a month...

and the 'cheap-labor conservatives' just LOVE the shrub for this spectacular failure....

[Rose Siding]

14. Who in the world are you talking to?

"Let's not be hoping more of our boys get killed."!!!!!

Tell me *specifically* anyone on this thread has expressed this sentiment?

[Guaranteed]

16. Well...

Aquart's suggestions for the guerillas seemed to be getting there.
I'm not trying to get down on anybody, I'm just saying be careful. In being against the war it's easy to fall into that kind of trap. I feel rather torn, myself, between my sense of justice and, oddly, what I feel to be my better side, which just wants the violence to stop.

[Rex]

49. Aquart stated that the guerillas

were going to figure out that killing skilled civilian laborers would be a better way to beat us than killing our soldiers. AT NO TIME did he suggest that US troops dying was a good thing. Complete supposition on your part. :eyes:

[The Magistrate]

15. Your Sentiments Are Admirable, Mr. Loony

Nonetheless, the criminals of the '00 Coup who contrived this cup must be made to drain it to the bitterest dregs of soldier's blood. The continuing deaths of U.S. soldiers are the visible sign of the reckless incompetence and colossal misjudgements this policy consists in: they are necessary to drive home to the people truth of this. Staying is as foolish as entering was. No mistake is corrected by perseverance in the error, but only compounded by it. These soldiers die for arrogance of rulers, profit of cronies, and in direct consequence of lies to the people. Should these deaths result in the cleansing of our government from these reptiles, they will certainly be in our national interest: indeed, in no other way will they be.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[NNN0LHI]

17. "Let's not be hoping more of our boys get killed."??????

Have you lost your mind? Most the people on this board didn't want them over there to begin with! And the people who say we have to stay until the job is finished, whatever the hell that means, are wrong. If we were wrong to go in, what makes it right to stay now? And tell me, what does finishing the job mean to you? What is your exit strategy?

Don

[Guaranteed]

19. We need to stay because...

...the worst thing we could possibly do is invade and then just leave while their country is broken. It's bad for us, and bad for them. Invading them was bad enough, but leaving would just compound both their and our problems. Now that we're there we've got to make sure, somehow (e.g. through the UN) that this thing gets finished properly.

[NNN0LHI]

21. And what if the Iraqi's don't want the UN to occupy their country?

Or anyone else for that matter? Have you even considered that idea?

Don

[The Magistrate]

22. Hear Hear, My Friend!

As a matter of right and wrong, we should cut and run quick as we can, like a burglar discovered in a parlor.

As a question of real-politik, the longer this mess conrinues, the worse it will be for the reactionaries.

[Guaranteed]

27. I thought you wanted us to stay...

....so more of our boys would get killed and Bush would be held responsible?

[The Magistrate]

32. When Your Enemy Is Digging Himself A Hole, Sir

Handing him a shovel is the soundest policy.

Desire has nothing to do with any of this, and these reptiles will persevere in their chosen course regardless of what any say, here or elsewhere: better it fail as miserably as possible.

[Guaranteed]

23. They won't....

I'm pretty sure they're not going to be too pleased having anybody in there, no matter who it is. However, a good part of the population already "understands" why we're in there right now. And the UN would certainly be a heckuva lot more legitimate than just the US and Brit etc. soldiers. It wouldn't be perfect, but the violence would be less than it is now.
I think it is also important for the *US* to get help from the UN, for many reasons. The world knows that if we really care about finishing the job, we'll get the UN involved. If we don't, we look really bad.
Not to mention that we just need help.

[pfitz59]

28. Shiite rule.....

US leaves and most of Iraq will become a Shiite republic with tribal and clan divisions! Bushco can't stomach teh idea. The BFEE will destroy Iraq before allowing ayatollah rule.

[Guaranteed]

29. That's a big problem...

...and I'm not sure how we're going to get around it (without being another Saddam).
I don't think there IS a way of getting around it. I guess that's what I'm saying.
But, I do know that we can't just leave.

[NNN0LHI]

31. Actually the problem is people who will not admit that we were wrong...

...to invade another sovereign nation under false pretenses, and then continue to insist that we must stay because "we just can't leave now". Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say "we just can't leave now" during the Vietnam fiasco. That is the truth no matter how you cut it.

Don

[markses]

33. It's llittle more than disguised imperialism

The people there could never possibly figure out how to run their shit without Big daddy America showing them the way! It's bullshit. They need Big Daddy America OUT OF THE WAY, so they can get on with it. Out of the way means no occupation, so obstruction of self-determination by fiscal manipulation, no strong-arming of international agencies and NGO's and the UN to make sure we get our way in that self-determination. Out of the way.

The Iraqi people are perfectly capable of forming their own government(s) and institutions, contracting independently with third party nations and institutions, and rejoining the world community that the US/UK colonizing forces have spent so long divorcing them from. The US/UK colonizing forces can no longer offer these banal apologias for their rank and obvious thievery. Out now.

[The Magistrate]

34. There Is No Way Around Shi'ite Religious Rule, Sir

Without the iron-fisted totalitarianism which has ruled Iraq for the last several decades, unless the country were to be partitioned into Kurdish north, Sunni center, and Shi'ite south.

It is just one more facet of the "lose-lose" situation the criminals of the '00 Coup have contrived for themselves with this act of hubris.

[juajen]

47. Oh, indeed we could just leave!

Just have an election in Iraq. If they vote us out, we leave and let them rebuild their country however they see fit. We could continue with some monetary aid to help. But the bushites won't do that. They don't want to leave their sugar tit filled with oil.

[Dan]

39. No one wants our soldiers to die, or

for that case Iraq people either. But this middle eastern mess has no win written all over it.

I am not sure that we can win.

I am not sure how we can exit this mess - without giving total control of the mess that we created to the U.N. along with a blank check. And, the more I think about it, I'm inclined to believe that is exactly what we will do. But that will require a change in administration here in the U.S. (because it will signal a major failure in foreign policy; and like it or not - a loss in the war column). Bush will bleed American (and coalition of the willing) troops dry before he will face the lost of his perceived prestige.

See, Bushy has never had to be accountable, nor responsible - so why would he start now.

We truly need an adult in the White House - or someone to admit (and take the appropriate legal steps) that the POTUS is incompetent and not mentally prepared for the responsibility of driving corporate ship America.

[NNN0LHI]

40. I am not even sure what winning in Iraq would consist of

I really don't.

Don

[aquart]

41. HOPING?????????????????? They're dying! NOW!

Getting all delicate and pretending if we don't say it it won't happen isn't going to help a whole hell of a lot.

They're coming to kill us. Our soldiers. Our civilian corporate workers. We earned their hatred and they hate a long, fervent time.

The guerrillas are getting better at it and they're getting reinforcements. People who, left alone, spend their lives killing each other, are now miraculously united to kill Americans.

More of our people ARE going to get killed. Nothing we do has been able to stop it so far and it's going to get worse.

I WILL speculate on killing strategy because I want to know where and how it's coming. If the word is out, maybe one of ours can duck.

[Kat 333]

43. AMEN to that ...

and I uttered, nearly, those exact words 13 (or whatever) years ago when this morons daddy was over their destroying Iraq for his own greedy interests. I don't think it was purely accidental that what happened on 9/11 - happened when rum dumb number 2 stole the US Presidential election.

[NYC]

46. We can't "finish the job".

We are making things worse by staying there. It won't improve. What would make it improve?

We should leave immediately. If we leave 5 years from now, the country will be 5 years worse off (both countries, U.S. & Iraq).

The problem is an unwillingness to abandon the oil.

[jamesinca]

35. This is B.S

<SNIP>

The U.S.-led administration says it has a conservative oil revenue forecast of $12 billion for 2004. But if the Kirkuk pipeline cannot be kept open and the southern oilfields remain starved of electricity, exports could fall well short.

Even if the target is met, officials say, the international community will have to come up with more than $5 billion in aid at a donors' conference planned for Madrid in October, just to keep the floundering economy afloat next year. (Additional reporting by Luke Baker and Hassan Hafidh in Baghdad and Joseph Logan in Tikrit)

<SNIP>

It is the responsiblility of the U.S., not the international community. Until the U.S. quits playing its games and allows an international effort under international rules, it is the U.S. responsibility. By their own admission they will fall at least $5 billion short. Do you think they are planning for wys to fix this since they know it is comeing? Iraqis die, Bush lies and Bremmer don't even try. No wonder they hate us for. No Geo. it is not for our freedoms.

[Kellanved]

36. "old" Europe is less likely to send aid

Since the latest UN show it's "Afghanistan first" - no aid (especially no troops) for Iraq until Afghanistan is up and running. Possibly civilian /reconstruction aid for Iraq if the US gets the security situation under control.

[QuietStorm]

44. recent explosion of the oil pipeline on the turkish side

now a water pipeline. There does appear to be strategy at play here. This is not random and haphazard. In a strange way it makes me wonder in comparison to suicide bombers these guerillas really seem to mean business. They are attacking infrastructure, commodities.

[pfitz59]

48. The war is far from over.

140,000 GIs can barely guard Bremer and his entourage, how will they guard a Califonia-sized country? Our guys are sitting ducks!