Explosion Strikes Bus in Jerusalem

[undergroundrailroad]

AP:Explosion Strikes Bus in Jerusalem

The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 19, 2003; 2:29 PM


JERUSALEM - An explosion rocked a bus in Jerusalem on Tuesday night, leaving a number of casualties, police and rescue services said.



Police said it was not yet known if a bomb was planted or if it was a suicide bombing.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15103-2003Aug19.html

MORE:

Suicide Bomber Kills Several in Jerusalem


The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 19, 2003; 2:41 PM


JERUSALEM - A suicide bomber blew himself up on a packed Jerusalem bus on Tuesday, killing several people, police said.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility.

The blast went off shortly after 9 p.m. Tuesday, on a main thoroughfare in Jerusalem. The bus was packed with passengers.

Several bodies were seen strewn on the sidewalk after the explosion. Bloodied children were rushed to waiting ambulances. Rescue workers tended to other wounded on the tree-lined street.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A15180-2003Aug19?language=printer

[Parche]

1. terra ism

And we all thought that bush was fighting terra ism
and everything would be ok?

[deutsey]

3. "Bring 'em on"

That's basically what his strategy boils down to, doesn't it?

[QuietStorm]

20. He is surely going to eat those words once this really heats up.

the whole region is going to erupt. wonder when they'll get that preemptive going. Something tells me it will be a big blitzkrieg. No one will be consulted it will just happen. OKAY tinfoil hat off.

He called it a crusade, he gets a holy war. See how strong words can be. Gotta figure it must have been what he wanted. Suits strategy somehow.

[ender]

2. george is going to hafta interrupt his golf game... AGAIN!

[meegbear]

7. see ...

even * is effected by the horrors of terrorism.

[MUAD_DIB]

15. Hi, meegbear.

It was nice to meet you on Sat.


-Muad

[buff2]

8. Good!

The stupid idiot shouldn't be on a month long vacation anyway. He wanted the job so bad he stole it.....now the LEAST he could do is.....

DO the damn job!!! The biggest DO NOTHING pRESIDENT in this country's history. Gawwd,how I despise that worthless pile of cow dung. :grr:

[QuietStorm]

11. better he's on vacation

he has so little to do with strategy here.

[qanda]

4. Oh Lord, has the world gone mad today? nt

nt

[Resistance]

28. The madness didn't start today

Just yesterday the Israeli authorities were busy demolishing Palaestinian homes in Jerusalem as part of their ethnic cleansing campaign (which the United States supports)

http://www.icahd.org/eng/news.asp?menu=5&submenu=1&item=99

A DAY OF DEMOLITIONS

The past few weeks since the road map came into effect and
Israel has been constrained from demolishing Palestinian
homes in the West Bank and Gaza have witnessed a dramatic
surge of demolitions in "east" Jerusalem – ten in this week
alone. This morning (Monday, August 18) the members of
ICAHD's rebuilding work camp witnessed the demolition of
three homes – in Shuafat, Beit Hanina and Isawiyeh – and the
arrest of Jeff Halper, ICAHD's Coordinator, and activist
Linda Livni, who resisted the demolition. All were demolished
by the Jerusalem municipality. They violated not only the
fundamental human rights of the families for housing and
international law that forbids house demolitions in occupied
territories, but also the Road Map initiative.

The first home to be demolished belonged to the Muheiyadeh
family of Shuafat – Saleh, Iman and their ten children.
Shuafat has been subjected to a rash of demolitions over the
past several years as Israeli construction has steadily
impinged on the community, reducing it to a truncated ghetto.
A large ultra-orthodox neighborhood (tellingly
called "Shuafat Ridge" until the residents demanded the "Arab
name" be changed to "Solomon's Heights) has been built on a
large section of Palestinian land; a major highway runs
through the village; and a number of roads have been planned
that criss-cross Shuafat to unite the massive Jewish
settlements to the east and west of the city and the light
railroad that will serve them. Despite the fact that the
Muheiyadehs' request for a building permit is pending, their
modest home was nevertheless demolished.

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. More unbiased reporting

LOL

From the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions. I wonder where THEY stand?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

36. Unbiased information

I simply like unbiased information. Anyone who likes biased information would fall into the arse category.

[Aidoneus]

38. and from what magickal realm..

do you find this "unbiased" information? I've read thousands of webpages and books on all sorts of subjects from all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds, not one of them "unbiased" (though some try to claim such on occasion).. what secret well are you dipping from?

[Muddleoftheroad]

39. Something that strives for balance

At the very least. Take Faux News and go the opposite direction. Something that gives both sides of an issue. Something where they DON'T have an ax to grind.

[Aidoneus]

43. specifically?

.

[Muddleoftheroad]

44. I'll say, how about the BBC for starters

I'll accept major American media in general, but I ALWAYS look at such reports with a jaundiced eye.

I won't accept reports that appear openly biased like some that are thriving right now in the I/P thread coming from some random wildly pro-Palestinian sources.

[Aidoneus]

55. ok

then it just seems strange to me how quiet you are when somebody posts from Gamla, Arutz Sheva, New York Post, CNSNews.com, JPost, etc..

[Muddleoftheroad]

58. Because those organizations typically TRY for balance

And private, non-media organizations with an obvious ax to grind do not.

[LeftCoast]

63. You honestly believe the JPost strives for balance?

Are you fucking insane?!?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

66. JPost is the Faux news of Isreal

[Muddleoftheroad]

71. The JPost article

I'll be happy to comment on it if someone wishes to post it. I tried signing up, but it hasn't registered me.

[tinnypriv]

86. GAMLA TRIES FOR BALANCE??

Okay, I've never used all caps but this freaking deserves it.

Are you at the sauce??? :beer:

[Kbowe]

56. When "truth" is called "biased" we are all in trouble

Nothing can help us.

[Aidoneus]

37. against home demolitions, I would assume

what would be "unbiased" to you?

[Evil_Dewers]

48. Why do some people back Israel 100%?

Look, Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah are scum, but so is Ariel Sharon. He's a terrorist just like Arafat--only he has a lot more money ($4 billion a year from US taxpayers).

Somebody please justify the building of Israel's Berlin-like wall and latest land grab...walling off 50,000 Palestinians from the rest of the West Bank and stealing their farmland isn't exactly furthering peace. You would think the old Israelis who were behind the walls of a concentration camp during WWII would not want to treat others the way they were treated by the fucking Nazis.

The Palestinians are fighting any way they can. They blow themselves up and murder children. The Israelis bulldoze buildings and the American peace demonstrators who stand in front of those buildings and murder cameramen and children from the safety of a US made tank or helicopter gunship.

Of course, now I'll be called an anti-Semite by the Israel apologists here. BTW, the Palestinians are Semites, too, unless you don't think an Assyrian is a Semite.

[librechik]

5. Reuters: Bus Wrecked no link yet

[undergroundrailroad]

6. Yes, Bus, MSNBC Reporting, no link yet.

[papau]

9. Link

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/331199.html

Fatalities reported in explosion on bus in central Jerusalem

By Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondent



An explosion was reported Tuesday night on a bus indowntown Jerusalem. Fatalities were reported inthe blast. The explosion occured at around9:20 P.M. on Egged bus number2. Army Radio said that it is still unclear if the blast was causedby a suicide bomber or anexplosive device. <snip>

[Barrett808]

10. Remember: the world is a safer place since the US invaded Iraq

Bush said so.

[QuietStorm]

17. he even has all those evildoers in gulag

to back up the progress they've made too.

[QuietStorm]

12. things are heating up all over...

[karlschneider]

13. But, but...

Louis Armstrong
What A Wonderful World



I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do
They're really saying I love you.

I hear babies crying, I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll never know
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself what a wonderful world.

;(

[karlschneider]

14. But, but... Sorry, weird dupe posting! wtf???

Louis Armstrong
What A Wonderful World



I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do
They're really saying I love you.

I hear babies crying, I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll never know
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself what a wonderful world.

;(

[QuietStorm]

18. such is our entertainment, Okay why not get into the act...

"Give me a kiss to build a dream on and my imagination will make that dream come true." Another from Sachmo.

[karlschneider]

19. Another of my favorites. I guess I'm just looking for a little sanity in

the midst of bedlam. Sigh.

[QuietStorm]

21. believe me I understand

it is a tremendously helpful coping mechanism. You are my kinda guy.

[NickB79]

16. Oh Christ, what an image

I just saw on the news two men trying to give CPR to a tiny little girl, blood on her face. She didn't look like she was gonna make it.

I'm gonna be sick.......

[htuttle]

22. Have you noticed that we never see camera shots like that..

...coming from anywhere the US military is 'at work'?

[stopbush]

23. CNN serving up death porn live and unedited

Unf*cking believeable.

CNN has no problem showing horribly maimed children in Israel but won't show US military bodies in Iraq. I guess that's because cameramen in Iraq get KILLED for shooting such anti-US footage (I know, I know...that reporter getting murdered yesterday by our glorious troops is "so pre-8/19/03" to the Bill Mahers of the world!) whereas our military isn't occupting Israel - yet. Looks like someone in Israel isn't "onboard" with the bush/PNAC roadmap.

Why is CNN NOT editing this video? If you're not going to edit this video, then DON'T EDIT ANYTHING ELSE.

F*ckin' media whores.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. CNN

Is still pretty much an American news agency and, as such, understands that American families could easily see their loved ones being wounded or killed in Iraq BEFORE they ever hear about it officially.

[Ripley]

32. You don't think Americans have relatives

in Israel?

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. It's government thing

Anyone might have relatives anywhere, but CNN and every media outlet is reliant on decent relations with government. Not show live photos of military casualties is a fairly longstanding practice.

[QuietStorm]

24. Not sure if this is related just came in 4 hours ago

Israel orders owners to hand over 'Jerusalem fence' land


Jerusalem,Tuesday, August 19, 2003: Israel has ordered owners to hand over land on which it proposes to build a fence between Jerusalem and the West Bank to thwart would-be suicide bombers from entering the city.

Most of the expropriation orders are for land inside the West Bank, but a few are for land inside parts of Jerusalem, 'Ha'aretz' daily reported today.
The so-called 'Jerusalem envelope' fence will put some 50,000 Palestinians from the West Bank on the Israeli side of the barrier while leaving tens of thousands of Arab residents of the capital cut off from relatives, schools and jobs, the daily said....

http://www.ptinews.com/nextstory.asp?main=International&ID=5437&rec=none

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. oh it's related ...in fact it is conjoined at the head with the bombing!

thanks for the link

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. Yet another reason for the wall

To separate Israel from the terrorist bases.

[stopthegop]

40. how do you know that? n/t

.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. notice NO more video footage from UN blast in Iraq? until they can..

arrange details to cover any involvement ......must take sheeple's attention away from the fact that that #1 pesky UN Humanitarian envoy Sergio de Mello was terminated...he won't be a problem for Bush* anymore and that'll learn the damn UN to mind their own biusness and stay out of america's 51st state Iraq!!!!

sigh

[QuietStorm]

27. WOW it is interesting how those sequeways

can work. Isn't it.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

34. Let's hope the lights don't go out now in the US

*yikes*

[theboss]

41. Ugly day

Things in Iraq are getting nastier all the time, and I would say that this probably officially ends the "Road Map." It lasted all of, what, eight weeks?

It's pretty easy to guess that Sharon is going to respond to this in some way.

It's depressing, but I'm actually beginning to believe that the security wall may be the best option at this point. The Israelis and Palestinians simply need to kept away from each other. It really pains me to say that, but I think it's the truth. The hatred is just too great.

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. If you were Sharon

Wouldn't you respond?

[Uzybone]

45. Of course he will respond

this is probably a response to the assasination of a Palestinian (albeit a terrorist) leader last week (i think it was last week). Sharon doesnt want peace plain and simple. The sooner people see this the better off things will get there.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. You make it sound

Like he is negotiating with someone -- anyone -- who represents the Palestinians and actually wants peace.

[mmm]

47. sharon would never stand for peace

they call him the butcher but in fact he is far worse

[Evil_Dewers]

50. You make it sound like...

Sharon wants peace. Israel was founded on violence, and violence is how they will keep it--just like the good ol' U S of A keeps 'MerKKKa relevent.

[Muddleoftheroad]

59. Oops

You forgot, it wasn't Israelis who blow up people in this bus today.

[Evil_Dewers]

49. What will Sharon's violent response solve?

Then some Palestinian will just use that violent response as an excuse to blow himself or herself up along with a Jerusalem pizza parlor.

[Muddleoftheroad]

60. What would ignoring this do as well?

He is caught. He has no viable partner for peace. Lacking that, the fact that he hasn't escalated things into full-scale war is surprising.

I guarantee that, under the same circumstances (a long-running terror campaign against women and children) that many nations would have gone to war. Look at Russia if you doubt me.

[Julien Sorel]

64. 'Full scale war' against what?

[Aidoneus]

65. 'Look at Russia if you doubt me'

I'll probably regret this, but could you elaborate..?

[Aidoneus]

80. what I was going to say next,

is if you want to go where I think you're heading with that last line, actually it's the Russians that have carried out their years of "terrorism" against the Chechens, destroying whole villages and every civilian building imaginable (houses, schools, hospitals, markets, orphanages, mental hospitals), killing thousands of innocent people there, between 100-200,000 out of a ethnic population of maybe 900k/1mil originally, raising to routine the practice of mass kidnapping and torture/execution/mutilation of innocent people alongside rape & thievery--all right up to now and tomorrow as well.

Terrible and typically ignorant example if that's what you're referring to. I know, in this new ignorant and goosestepping imperial era it's all been recast in the "rich white countries good/Muslims bad--must die" formula, that poor Russia is just bravely defending itself and is too soft, but approaching the subject that way is just ahistorical rubbish and proportionally absurd.

Back to Sharon.. what has violent operations gotten them in the last few years, or the last 50? Besides more deaths all around, of course. Considering that it was quite likely that it was IDF operations that provoked this and most certainly the last set from Nablus, the argument for Papa Bear's favourite response is further flawed.

[bpilgrim]

76. it will only improve his record for bringing peace and security to israel

i am sure :crazy:



peace

[theboss]

51. Yes

I'm no fan of Sharon. I believe he is the classic example of a leader who only carries a hammer so he sees everything as a nail.

However, a country has to protect its citizens. Israel has been in a state of war for three years now. There is no other way to describe it. Military action is appropriate at times.

Of course, I'm not convinced this is a war that Israel can win. A stalemate may be the best solution, which is why I am beginning to lean towards the security wall.

The person who is screwed is Abbas. He looks like a powerless figurehead.

[Evil_Dewers]

52. The Berlin Wall

eventually fell. So will the new Israeli wall. Sharon thinks he's walling out the Evil Doers. He's actually walling himself and the Israelities in. Isolationism never works forever. The Chinese and Japanese found that out the hard way.

[theboss]

54. I don't think it's quite like that

I think the idea behind the wall is not keep the Palestinians and Israelis completely isolated. Hell, the Israeli economy depends on Palestinian labor. It's to a) keep snipers from firing into Israel and b) limit the opportunites for suicide bombers to enter.

I don't know if it's the solution or not. But, like I said, this is a war.

[Julien Sorel]

67. The purpose of the wall is to divide Palestinians

from more of their land, so Israelis can take it for themselves. If you've seen a map of the wall, it's pretty obvious what its intent is.

[Muddleoftheroad]

61. Isolation

Has to be better than this.

[Josh]

84. Yes, he will respond -

but he didn't respond to the TWO other bombings last weekend, so don't launch into, "All they do is seek revenge!" They let the two other bombings go and arranged to set up more security talks - this strike was aimed at KILLING those talks. Who knows what will happen?

[tinnypriv]

53. Ma'ariv says 18 killed

n/t

[ZenLefty]

57. Let's keep this discussion in the Isreal/Palestine forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=6563

Thanks.

ZenLefty
DU Moderator

[VolcanoJen]

62. Kick!

A kick so that anyone who hasn't heard of this tragedy today can read about it.

:-(

- Jennifer

[Yentatelaventa]

68. I'm guessing it was the Palestinian defense defending their claimed land

I'm sure blowing up a bus full of women and children on purpose will help them defend "their" land.

[LeftCoast]

69. When I hear people say this

I always wonder what they would suggest as an alternative. I don't support killing of any type, but I'm very curious what YOUR solution for the Palestinians would be. I think it's very easy to condemn the Palestinians for acts of terrorism, but it seems that in an occupation that has now extended through 4 generations, the only thing that has advanced the Palestinian cause at all has been terrorist attacks. Again, I do not defend them in any way, but my question remains.

[Yentatelaventa]

70. Why were they thrown out of Jordan?

Why do they not blow up women and children in Jordan?

[LeftCoast]

72. I dunno

but a question doesn't answer a question.

My point: terrorist action against the occupation is the only thing which has accomplished ANYTHING for the Palestinians.

My question: if not terror, then what?

Again, I am not supporting terror, or killing of any kind.

If you can't answer this question (which seems to be the case) why would the Palestinians stop using terror. If given no viable alternative, why would you expect ANY other response?

Still waiting for the answer to that 1st question btw.

[cantwealljustgetalong]

74. how about this alternative...

they could have taken the Clinton Barak offer, rather than acting as if there was never anything on the table that could spare everyone this ongoing horror show...

[LeftCoast]

77. Have you ever seen the map that went along with the so-called

clinton-barak offer?

Sheesh...do some homework.

[cantwealljustgetalong]

82. sheesh...who has not seen "the maps"...

if you did not like the Taba map, it won't get any better now with the wall/fence/barrier reducing the ability to use the terror option...

[tinnypriv]

85. Interesting

Israel and the United States reject Palestinian offers for peace, put down a totally unacceptable deal and because the Palestinains reject it, that means Israel has the right to take land that isn't theirs and continue their occupation?

Nice logic.

[Yentatelaventa]

75. Terror does not work anymore

In case you have not noticed terror is becoming less tolerated than is was in the past. The man's too big, the man's too strong.

[LeftCoast]

78. You still didn't answer the question

I will say it yet again.

Given no alternative to the only (so far) successful tactic WHY would the Palestinians give it up?

[Muddleoftheroad]

79. Successful?

Do the Palestinians have a state?

No, they have Intifada II, Revenge of the Corrupt Leader (Arafat).

[Yentatelaventa]

81. Why?

Because it's only revenge and hate and it will be their downfall.

[Josh]

87. Here's an alternative -

the Palestinians will always get further through negotation than they will through violence.

Take Camp David. I know many of you believe that Barak's offer was meaningless, but it WAS an offer nonetheless. What offer have we had from a Likud government in the last three years? None whatsoever. Barak's offer was a place to START - and he genuinely wanted peace. Arafat failed the Palestinian people by walking out, there by REFUSING TO NEGOTIATE. (Which, as any negotiator will tell you, is a lousy way to achieve your aims.)

The alternative? Clamp down on Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. In the short term, it will be difficult and bloody, but the world will finally BELIEVE that the Palestinians want peace, because as long as they continue to allow these groups to operate (and Abbas even SAID he did not want to try to stop them, implying he might be able to if he wanted to), then these groups will always sabotage any peace efforts, because they believe more in exterminating the Jews than they do in a state for their own people.

And, by the way, so does the rest of the Arab world, who have never lifted a FINGER to help their "Palestinian brethren." This includes Jordan, who occupied what we know as Gaza and the West Bank from 1948-1967 - all Palestinian nationals are Jordanian citizens as a result of this occupation (it has been said formally) but they either a) aren't accepted into Jordan, or b) Don't want to live their anyway. But the fact remains that Jordan held those territories for almost twenty years and the Palestinians got nothing from their Arab neighbours.

Everyone says that Sharon and the Likud is the problem. They say, "What will Sharon's violence accomplish?" But just five days ago there were two separate bombings that he chose not to respond to, instead hoping to forge ahead with security talks. This bombing was aimed at killing those talks. And now twenty people (at least) are confirmed DEAD. People on this board then say "And why are they building this wall?" Well wouldn't YOU want to keep terrorists out when they continue to slaughter innocents. By proportion of population, Israel has lost a LOT more civilians than the United States did on September 11. I think they have the right to want to keep some of these people out if their lives are being threatened on a daily basis.

Yes, some might accuse you of antisemitism. I do not. However I wouldn't be so kind to others on this board. I am a student at one of the most liberal/progressive universities in Australia and I was walking into campus yesterday to find a large stamped message on the concrete: JEWS - THE NEW NAZIS. This was a stencilled stamp in permanent black signage ink. This wasn't just regular grafiti - someone PAID to have that stamp made. That shows a real committment to that message. People DO hate Jews, whether you think so or not. Two hours later I was in one of the bathrooms in the LAW building and saw on the cubicle wall, "We (JEWS) control the US and its so-called allies, including Australia."

THIS at the University of New South Wales. Antisemitism is all around you, and people cloak it by saying that they are only against Israel. It's hard to notice, but no one on this board EVER goes to such disgustingly vehement and one-sided lengths to abuse any other country - ESPECIALLY when that country has just lost a score of its own civilians.

So what's the alternative? An end to violence. Camp David in '78 showed that it can work for Egypt. If Arafat had been able to tell his ass from his elbow it COULD have started the road to something in 2000. Leadership and an end to violence are the answers. They must be embraced.

Thanks for asking your questions.

[laylah]

73. Reprehensible; however

I just wish that the Jews and the Palestians would either figure it out or just kill each other off. Before anyone flames me, my husband is Jewish, therefore, my children are also (I am an "unchosen"..:silly:) I believe that BOTH parties are wrong...the Jews for encroaching, the Palestinians for their indiscriminate murdering.....:mad: Ok, flame away......Jennifer

[Pert_UK]

83. I thought Judaism was matrilineal......

The religion was inherited through the mother's side of the family, and that if only the father was Jewish then there were some issues? Maybe I'm wrong - I would be genuinely interested to find out.

However......I don't think that just because your husband is Jewish you are somehow allowed to make such bizarre, generalised statements.

I appreciate that you're talking specifically about the conflict in Israel, but compare "I just wish that the Americans and the Iraqis would either figure it out or just kill each other off" or "I just wish that the Catholics and the Protestants would either figure it out or just kill each other off".

To make such a statement would be totally unacceptable - I know what you're intention is, but your comment is a gross generalisation which ignores a huge number of people on both sides of the debate who want nothing but an peace.

I share your frustration, but not the way you've expressed it.

[undergroundrailroad]

88. It's been a long and painful day for all of us. Let's do this.

I'm going to lock this thread in LBN. If you want, you may continue the discussion in Israeli/Palestinian Forums

Thank you.


Undergroundrailroad
DU Moderator