Cuban Airmen Indicted in Civilian Deaths

[Osolomia]

The Associated Press
MIAMI Aug. 21 —

A Cuban general and two fighter pilots have been indicted in the shooting down of two civilian planes in 1996 over the Florida straits, federal prosecutors announced Thursday. The four men aboard the planes were killed.

... A third plane, carrying Brothers to the Rescue leader Jose Basulto and two observers, was not hit. On several flights before that day, members of the group had violated Cuba's airspace and dropped leaflets over the island supporting human rights.

… "The fact that the indictment is taking place is a good measure because it's sending a signal to Cuba," Basulto said Thursday. "I expect the indictment of Castro takes place shortly because he's the one that ordered the shootdown and that is well-documented."

Some Cuban-Americans, including several Congress members and state lawmakers, have recently been critical of President Bush's administration for not taking a tougher stance against Castro. A group of 13 Florida state legislators told Bush in a letter that his steadfast support in the Cuban-American community could be endangered in the 2004 presidential election. Losing that support could be critical in carrying Florida, which Bush did by 537 votes in 2000, giving him the White House.

… The spy ring conspired to lure the Brothers to the Rescue "aircraft into flying on the day of the shootdown by ensuring that the FBI would not stop the flights," U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez said in a statement.

More...
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030821_1552.html

If a foreign plane ignored orders from the air traffic controllers how long before US fighter jets shoot it down and ask questions later in post 9-11 America, hmmm?

The 1996 actions of Brothers to the Rescue resulted in the passage of the Helms-Burton Act that has been unanimously condemned by the Rest of the World as being immoral and unethical ever since, but brainwashed Americans still don’t get it year after year after year after year, election after election after election, preferring to remain travel banned and blackmailed by the Miami mafia and in a state of denial about the whole shebang if LIEberman and Graham et al are any indication.

For what the US government and Florida’s “exiles” and the USA’s “free press” don’t want you to know about this incident read this for starters before jumping to any ignorant conclusions that bushwhacked Americans are still ever so prone to do in 2003 when it comes to the Forbidden Land of the “communist enemy” just 90 miles away:

THE NEW YORKER magazine
January 1998
ANNALS OF DIPLOMACY
BACKFIRE
http://www.hermanos.org/Backfire.htm

[htuttle]

1. Navy Missile Downs Iranian Jetliner on 4th of July

Washington Post
Monday, July 4, 1988; Page A01 
A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made A300 Airbus and that all had perished. 

(snip)

The Pentagon at first denied the Iranian claims, declaring that information from the fleet indicated that the Vincennes, equipped with the Aegis electronic battle management system, had shot down an attacking Iranian F14 jet fighter. But after sifting through more detailed reports and electronic intelligence, Reagan directed the Pentagon to confirm there had been a tragic case of mistaken identity in the war-torn gulf. 

(snip)
The men of the Vincennes were all awarded combat-action ribbons. Commander Lustig, the air-warfare coordinator, even won the navy's Commendation Medal for "heroic achievement," his "ability to maintain his poise and confidence under fire," enabled him to "quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure." Given the target he was firing at, the commendation seems rather surreal.

From "EXPATS - Travels Through Arabia, From Tripoli to Tehran" by Christopher Dickey

"Think how an American crowd would have reacted if an Iranian reporter had been walking around in its midst after 290 civilians, more than 60 of them children, had been blown out of the air by an Iranian warship. Would the American people had differentiated between that Iranian and his government?"

(snip)

"Iranian Brig. Gen. Mansour Satary, trained in the US, made it clear he did not think the Americans actually intended to shoot down an unarmed civilian aircraft. He just thought that they didn't care enough to be carefull not to.

SUPREME COURT REFUSES TO REINSTATE LAWSUIT OVER IRANIAN JET

Liability Week JR Publishing, Inc.
Monday, June 14, 1993

The Supreme Court refused June 7 to reinstate a lawsuit against the federal government by families of people killed when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf in 1988. Without comment, the court said it wouldn't hear Koohi v. U.S. (92-1504), in which relatives of those killed argued that the United States wasn't at war with Iran and therefore isn't immune from lawsuits over combat injuries.

All 290 aboard the Iran Air jet were killed when crew members of the American cruiser USS Vincennes mistook the plane for an Iranian fighter and shot it down July 3, 1988.

[Yentatelaventa]

2. Castro is a fool

All he has to do to disarm any and all US complaints against him is to denounce communism and allow free elections and democracy. Why is he afraid to do this? It would allow Cuba to become a member of the modern world and end this foolishness called communism.

[Doug Decker]

3. Maybe he fears capitalism...

more?

[Yentatelaventa]

4. Maybe he is wrong?

Many leaders have remained on the road to ruin due to their gut. Perhaps his woman can talk some sense into him much like the man who never asks for directions.

[htuttle]

5. Why is the US afraid to allow it's citizens to travel to Cuba?

Citizens of all the other countries in the world are allowed to travel to Cuba. Canadians can go there, so can Germans and French and British citizens.

Why does the United States government disallow it's citizens from going to Cuba?
There are no laws prohibiting travel to North Korea, or Iran, or China -- why Cuba?

Is the US afraid for it's citizens to learn the truth of what Cuba is like?

[Yentatelaventa]

6. This isn't about American leadership

But to answer your question it's all about enforcing the notion that communism is not acceptable. Communism is easy to sell to young minds that are not fully matured enought to understand human nature and this helps prevent a false acceptance of communism. Most people under the age of 25 are not mentally mature enough (web search yourself) to make major decisions like what is good for democracy in the real world.

Care to guess why the POTUS has an age limit?

[htuttle]

8. So why can I travel to North Korea and China?

Although China is officially 'not communist' now, there haven't been any laws barring travel there.

When Americans travel to North Korea, it's pretty obvious what the conditions are like (past the paper-mache potemkin tourist villages).

If Cuba is so horrible, why can't I find out for myself? I'm old enough to be 'fully matured'.

[Yentatelaventa]

9. I never said Cuba was horrible

It's a perception thing that is used by more mature leaders to discourage any propagation thereof. That and they are less than 100 miles away and any money spent there helps validate their government style.

[Mika]

15. Government style?

".. any money spent there helps validate their government style. "

Hogwash. Does spending any money in the USA by tourists represent support for the style of the _Bush admin?

Besides, even if it were true.. so what? The Cuban government's social agenda (read: world class UNIVERSAL health care, and world class universal education) is the envy of much of the world.. especially the poorer countries of the world. Hell, many Americans would give their 'left one' to have full coverage health care for their family, and Cuban students can actually find Texas (among other places) on a map.

[Yentatelaventa]

19. I wouldn't give either gonad nor would my wife for communism

We want a chance to work for the luxury items in life and not be punished for working harder than others. If it means we have to try harder to provide for our family then so be it.

What's wrong with that?

<spelling>

[htuttle]

37. My, how very Straussian of you

Perception management by 'more mature leaders' is more important than the truth or justice?

Nice 'democratic' sentiment there.

[carla]

29. Care to show us...

how age and maturity, let alone wisdom, are related as ideally as you suggest? Age-ism, the new bigotry?

[Pocho]

7. ¡HOY ES EL SANTO DE FIDEL!

¡Feliz dia del Santo Fidel!, Y tambien que tenga buena suerte en su lucha con el vicioso tiburón grande del norte y lo mismo con los mentirosos traidores de miami. Hay muchos mas que esos en los estadosunidos que creen en su causa. ¡Siempre hasta la Victoria!

[Yentatelaventa]

10. What?

Was that pro or con communism?

[Bridget Burke]

11. Que?

How can somebody who knows so much about Cuba be ignorant of the Spanish language?

Beware--there may be some here who do not share your total fear of anything non-Capitalistic.

[htuttle]

12. Watch Out!

[Yentatelaventa]

14. Oh Man

I fear nothing. Often I speak of the general or future attitude of the voting public and the outcome. Perhaps it's fear that the far right will prevail due to "our" ignorance and intolerance of majority opinion. Communism doesn't scare me anymore but the result of supporting such a regime can allow the complete opposite to take over.

And yes, I see the far-left folks here and am almost positive they are here to discredit the democratic party.

[Pocho]

18. SORRY, I WAS WRITING FOR THOSE WHO WOULD UNDERSTAND.

Evidently you are not one.

[Yentatelaventa]

20. Neither may you be one that understands

Ningunas moscas entran en una boca cerrada

[carla]

33. That was a favorite saying in Batista's days...

Shame on you for the use of the veiled threat. Venceremos.

[guajira]

13. Cuba is More Socialist Than Communist

In fact Cuba is sort of a mix between capitalism and socialism.

If Americans were allowed to go there, we could see that. Also we would find out how much horse-shit propaganda comes out of Miami, but Miami batistianos don't want us to know that or to know what Cuba is really like.

[PROUDNWLIBERAL]

16. Right wing Miami Idiots

Screw the right wing Cuban community in Florida. They would have Cuba go back to a Batista like government controled by the Mafia and the poor people of Cuba would get no health care or education.

[Mika]

17. Back at ya

" Castro is a fool. All he has to do to disarm any and all US complaints against him is to denounce communism and allow free elections and democracy. Why is he afraid to do this? It would allow Cuba to become a member of the modern world and end this foolishness called communism." <--Posted by Yentatelaventa



I guess that you have to have actually been to Cuba to understand that the above statement is almost pure, foolish propaganda. Preventing Americans from going to Cuba is one of the methodologies of keeping the truth about Cuba from American eyes... all the while, the Cuban "exiles" who claim to have "escaped" Cuba are allowed to return to Cuba for family visits and vacations. Wierd for "escapees" to return, huh?



As for your claims of the lack of democracy in Cuba.. hogwash.

I was in Cuba for the 1997-98 election season, and I saw democracy there.



Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6300&forum=DCForumID70


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.
He is one of the elected 607 representatives in the Cuban National Assembly. It is from that body that the head of state is nominated and then elected. Raul Castro, Carlos Large, and Ricardo Alarcon and others were among the nominated last year. President Castro has been elected to that position since 1976.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html
Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.attcanada.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html#Democracy

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[Yentatelaventa]

22. I'm going to say this once mika

My wife was beaten by castro's goons and her mother killed while trying to escape during the transfer of power when castro took over.

He is a fucking murdering scumbag and evil dictator and no apology for his murdering of my wife's mother will EVER excuse him. The SOB will rot in hell and I will do everything in my power to help in that regard.

Fuck anyone that excuses castro and his band of murderers. Kiss my ass if you support that evil son of a bitch.

[Osolomia]

23. So you're a Batista supporter eh?

And call yourself a progressive democrat? That's an oxymoron if there was one.

[Scurrilous]

24. Gotta feel for those Batista supporters....

....who were left behind in Cuba after the transfer of power (revolution). You would think Batista would have given his henchmen a little more warning before deserting the country and leaving them to the mercy of an angry Cuban populace. Maybe he was too busy loading money bags and American Mafioso on his get-away plane to worry about the fate of those who supported him during his reign.

[Mika]

34. I'm sorry about your mother-in-law

I guess that had the USA not supported such brutal, corrupt, and blood soaked regimes like Batista's for so long, then there would have been fewer acts of unjust retribution during the initial phases of the revolution. Sad acts like the ones you describe are a part of uprisings and the battles for power, and that is just another reason why we must stop supporting dictators and henchmen against the will and wellbeing of their countyrmen/women and seek the paths of diplomacy, democracy, and peace.



"The SOB will rot in hell and I will do everything in my power to help in that regard.

Pray harder. Maybe St. Peter will close heaven's gate & cast the evil Dr Castro down to that eternal lake of fire. :shrug:

[Osolomia]

21. Americans are the fools

for allowing themselves to be trade and travel banned and not free to see Cuba for themselves, year after year after year, election after election after election all because they're too ignorant to know any better or are afraid to stand up to a bunch of hypocrits and bigots to the core.

[Judi Lynn]

30. Here's a letter to the editor

from someone in South Florida. Probably a Cuban-American, he's got some good ideas. Very decent letter:

(snip)
Changes in Cuba, U.S. policy


Flood Cuba with U.S. goods By Louie Ortiz Palm Bay

Regarding Cuban-American members of Congress who want the administration to change its policy toward Cuba, I agree the policy should be changed. But not the way they want.

We should lift the embargo and flood the island of Cuba with American products. We should repeal the Cuban Re-Adjustment Act and let the Voice of America replace Radio Marti.

Cuban radio stations and Cuban-controlled TV in Miami reach the island of Cuba. Cubans keep landing in the Florida Keys undetected by two U.S. Coast Guard stations, border patrol boats, U.S. Customs boats and Drug Enforcement Agency patrols.

Yet it seems as if any other groups trying to reach Florida are immediately intercepted and repatriated. Something is wrong.

There isn't any homeland security in the Florida Straits. One of these days a boatload of terrorists, fully versed in Spanish, will land and disappear in Miami. (snip)

(snip) They believe that if there is a Republican administration they should get preferential treatment. (snip/...)

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/opedstoryA9729A.htm

[Osolomia]

38. If Americans were free to travel they’d know by now

what everyone else in the world has known for years: Cuba’s dollar stores have been chock full of American products from Coca Cola to Heinz ketchup and Kellogs Corn Flakes and Marlboro cigarettes for well over a decade now, albeit at extra cost via subsidiaries in third countries, plus all the products from Canada and Europe and the Rest of the World.

The rationale for flooding Cuba with American products is utterly absurd but if that’s what it takes to finally yank brainwashed Americans out of their Cold War fantasyland by their jockstraps so be it.

[carla]

28. Castro is the longest serving leader in the Western hemisphere...

"fool" is hardly a proper description of a man capable of such political longevity...Look closer to home for the real political fool/and visit Cuba before you mouth off about communism/Fidelism again.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Alabama officially trades with Cuba now.

Apparently the _Bush administration imagined Cuba would have a really hard time, buying food for its citizens without access to credit, like other nations.

A period of disinformation preceded opening limited trade with Cuba, as you may remember, with Miami "exile" extremists spokesgusanos, like Joe Garcia, and the CANF tube, Dennis Hays gibbering that Cuba wouldn't pay its bills, etc., etc., and pointing out Cuba's poverty. They were trying to scare off American business folks, who didn't fall for it.

Looks as if everything's running like clockwork, doesn't it? This is bound to drive Miami right-wing extremists wild. Hope they don't rev up their extremely rude bombing and assassanation operations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(snip) Cuba Signs Food Shipping Accords with Alabama
Thu August 21, 2003 07:10 PM ET

HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuba on Thursday signed agreements with Alabama and its port of Mobile to start importing food later this year, adding to a growing list of U.S. states trading with the communist-run island nation.
Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries Commissioner Ron Sparks, heading a state delegation to Cuba, called it "the first step toward establishing a permanent trade relation" with Cuba.

The president of the Cuban food import agency Alimport, Pedro Alvarez, said Cuba was set to buy $10 million worth of chicken and dairy products.

Maria Conchita Mendez, manager for Latin American Trade and Development at the Alabama State Port Authority, signed an accord that will lead to regular shipping services to Cuba from the port of Mobile, some 600 miles away.

"Mobile cannot fall behind," she said, in reference to ports in Florida, Texas and Georgia that have already signed agreements with Cuba. (snip)

(snip) Mendez said it was incongruous that the United States trades openly with China and with Vietnam, where 58,000 Americans lost their lives during the Vietnam War, but not with Cuba. (snip/...)

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3318644

[Judi Lynn]

31. Alabama state officials visited Cuba recently, & they're no commies!

(snip) Ag chief visits Cuba for trade talks
Last Update: 8/19/2003 5:01:29 PM
Posted By: Ron Reams


(Montgomery-AP) -- Alabama's agriculture commissioner, Ron Sparks, is in Cuba today hoping to expand markets for the state's farm products.

Sparks' visit is the most recent in a series designed to strengthen Alabama ties with the island nation. He said his mission is to establish a working relationship with Cuban agricultural interests and negotiate sales and delivery of Alabama farm commodities to Cuba.

Alabama and Cuba were trading partners in the early 1960s, exchanging Alabama wood and agricultural products for Cuban sugar before the United States broke diplomatic relations and imposed a trade embargo. Lieutenant Governor Lucy Baxley visited Cuba in April at the request of the Mobile-based AlaCaribe Initiative Incorporated, a group that advocates increased trade with Cuba. (snip/...)

http://wpmi.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=525E6B0D-3CF1-401E-950B-08AA9C3C2472

[IndianaGreen]

26. What country would not shoot down a plane that violates its air space?

The Brothers to the Rescue are a terrorist organization based in Miami. Here we see American jurisprudence being subverted to cater to the filthy Miami gusanos, probably in order to retain their votes for next year.

Ask yourselves, what country would not shoot down a plane that violates its air space?

[Judi Lynn]

27. BTTR acted as terrorists.They shouldn't be able to hide from consequences.

(snip) Brothers to the Rescue was founded by Jose Basulto, a man whom the CIA had trained for the Bay of Pigs Invasion. In August 1962, a year and a half after that fiasco, Basulto went on a CIA-authorized raid into Cuba during which he shot at a hotel, fired into a theater, and blasted a Havana residential section. Twenty people died.

More than 30 years later, in June 199S, Basulto filed a false flight plan, claiming a mission to the Bahamas, and instead flew his plane from Florida to Cuba, dropping anti-Castro leaflets over Cuban territory. On July 13, he returned to drop religious medals, dipping his small plane over the rooftops of populated areas.

These flights coincided with a terrorist campaign by other militant anti-Castro exiles to cripple Cuba's tourist economy. Luis Posada Carriles, an exile linked to dozens of bombings and assassination attempts in the past 40 years, told a New York Times reporter that the prestigious Cuban American National Foundation financed a scheme to bomb tourist sites in Havana. Posada Carriles' agents planted more than a dozen bombs, killing one Italian tourist, wounding several people and doing extensive property damage.

However, the FBI showed little enthusiasm in responding to Cuba's request to investigate the Florida-based exiles' role in the tourist bombings. In January 1996, one National Security Council official even wrote a letter on White House stationary to the FAA, requesting that the Brothers' pilots licenses be suspended for having filed false flight plans. But the FAA, like the FBI, did nothing. (snip/...)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/Double_Standard.html

[Judi Lynn]

32. Outlandish new article.

(snip)

Charges in Cuba Incident Called Political
By ADRIAN SAINZ
Associated Press Writer


MIAMI (AP)--Some Cuban-Americans questioned the timing of the murder indictment of a Cuban general and two pilots in the shooting down of two civilian planes in 1996, saying the charges smacked of political maneuvering by the Bush administration.

But U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez denied Thursday's indictment was politically motivated.

The indictment was filed seven years after four men were killed when their planes were shot down over the Florida straits by a Cuban MiG.

``That's not what we do. It's based solely on justice,'' Jimenez said.

He refused to say whether Washington played any role in the decision, saying he authorized presenting the case to a Miami grand jury.

``These charges should have come a long time ago,'' said Jose Preval Lafita, a Cuban journalist who came to Miami in the 1960s. ``It's apparently time for President Bush to start his campaign.'' (snip/...)

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/ap/ap_story.html/National/AP.V9659.AP-Cuban-Shootdown.html

[Say_What]

35. BTTR

This is nothing but the Bushies throwing their latest bone to the MiamiGusanos. LOL and what's funnier is that the gusanos always fall for the government b*llshit--hook, line, and sinker.

and for some reason the image I link to won't appear--Dang!!

[Judi Lynn]

43. Was this the image?

"You soy un gusano!"

[Say_What]

46. LOL that's good but

the one I've got is a "Hermanos al Rescate" cessna with sharks teeth. I tried posting it to geocities, but for some reason it wouldn't link with the image and would not display the page link either. :-(

[Judi Lynn]

47. I've seen that one, also.

A lot of people don't know that Jose Basulto, the creator of this organization was a Bay of Pigs guy, instructed at the School of the Americas, and was trained by the CIA. A real winner. He was also the driving force behind organizing to keep Elian from being returned to his father.

Have you seen the Basulto Data Dump?

(snip) On February 24, 1996, the US Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, raged at a "barbaric killing" by an "uncivilized" country, of four US citizens on a "humanitarian mission." Cuba had shot down two planes belonging to the Brothers to the Rescue. Four pilots died. A third plane, piloted by Basulto narrowly escaped. (At the time of the shoot down, Basulto's plane never entered Cuban airspace; he just urged his Brothers to do so.) The Brothers were shot down in international waters. Basulto said they "had not been warned." At that time, the Helms-Burton legislation was stalled. Clinton would not back the bill. However, Basulto stirred the wave of anti-Castro hysteria in Miami. The US forced a resolution through the UN deploring Cuba's role in the incident. On March 5, 1996, the US Senate voted 74 to 22 in favor of a final compromise version of legislation tightening the US embargo on Cuba, punishing other countries that trade with Cuba and allowing Cuban exiles in the US to sue to recover their property from Cuba. On March 6, 1996, US House of Representatives passed the package, known as the Helms-Burton bill. In reaction to these forces, Clinton announced he would sign the Helms-Burton Act.

Several weeks later, evidence was obtained that the "Brothers" were not on a humanitarian mission of pulling refugees out of the ocean. Instead they intended to drop anti-government leaflets over Havana during Carnival celebrations. Twice, in January 1996, they had carried out similar missions and in the previous 18 months had illegally entered Cuban airspace 14 times. Cuba had warned the US that it would stop the Brothers' flights if nothing was done to curtail them. The US only told the Brothers, it would not "be able to interfere" and suggested they not fly below the 24th parallel.

The US had advance knowledge of the Brothers' activities. A Cuban agent, Juan Pablo Roque, had infiltrated the Brothers and was an FBI informant. The FAA which requires pilots keep to a predetermined flight path or lose their license, looked the other way. (Eventually, the FAA did revoke Basulto's pilot's license.) (snip/...)

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/basultodatadump.htm


Baddabing Basulto

This says that the Cuban agent, Roque had TOLD the FBI about the Brothers plans. I have heard this in other places.

Isn't it shabby for the same FBI to which he had turned, trying to enlist their help in doing something about the Brothers to the Rescue's terrorism against Cuba, the very same FBI which simply went out and arrested him, of COURSE knowing how to reach him, and the same FBI which had him tried in Miami, and now doing life in prison as a SPY??????

This is as crooked and as underhanded as anything I've ever heard.

[Say_What]

48. Another *hero* to the ultra right wing wackos on Calle Ocho

along with Bosch as you mentioned earlier, Posada, and a host of other terrorists that walk the street of Miami free.

[Judi Lynn]

50. Just saw Posada's photos, right before reading your post

and read this pertinent info:

(snip) MIAMI — The militant fringe in Miami's Cuban exile community is under FBI scrutiny for a running series of clandestine attacks in Cuba and supporting them in the 1990s.

But any prosecution of U.S. residents could be a political land mine for the new Bush administration, which counts Cuban-Americans as a Republican stronghold in the state that decided the presidential election.

"You'd at least have to get the attorney general to clear it and, given the political realities, they're not likely to prosecute these people," said Philip Brenner, a specialist on U.S. policy toward Cuba at American University in Washington. "At a minimum, for harboring terrorists, they should be prosecuted." (snip/...)
http://www.naplesnews.com/01/05/florida/a4070a.htm

The accompanying photo with this article shows Luis Posada Carilles, one of the Miami "exile" bombers/murderers, as if it were only recent. 'Fraid not!



THIS is Luis Posada Carriles, after he had his jaw shot up in Guatemala.


(snip) Posada himself hid out in Zanadu, a Salvadoran beach town. But by interrogating Hasenfus, the Nicaraguans soon identified the mysterious "Ramon Medina" -- the contras' logistics chief -- as the fugitive terrorist, Luis Posada. The Cuban exile was once more a hunted man.

Still, Posada's friends continued to find him work. Salvadoran president Napoleon Duarte hired Posada as a special security adviser. Later, Posada moved to Guatemala where he worked for the state-owned phone company and gave informal security advice to Guatemala's president Vinicio Cerezo.

Then, on Feb. 26, 1990, two cars pulled up next to Posada's black Suzuki jeep as he was heading to work. Gunmen opened fire, riddling Posada's car with more than 40 bullets. One penetrated Posada's chest and grazed his heart. Another cut through his jaw and nearly severed his tongue. Posada fired back and pulled into a gas station before collapsing. (snip/...)

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/lost13.html

[Osolomia]

49. How stupid can brainwashed Americans be, Take II

The spy ring conspired to lure the Brothers to the Rescue "aircraft into flying on the day of the shootdown by ensuring that the FBI would not stop the flights," U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez said in a statement.

- From today's article at the top of this thread!!!

[Judi Lynn]

51. Wonders never cease, Osolomia!

A prime example of pretzel logic, isn't it? WHO could be that stupid?


I just looked up the source of that brainstroke statement, U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez, and saw that he's the brother of a new Bush H.U.D. official. He's A Cuban-American from Florida! Surprise!

(snip)
Aide to Gov. Bush tapped for White House job

by Peter Wallsten

TALLAHASSEE - The ties binding the Florida capital and the White
House grew stronger Thursday with the announcement that one of Gov.
Jeb Bush's top lieutenants is joining his brother's administration.

Frank Jimenez, a Cuban-American born in Puerto Rico who moved to
Miami when he was 3, will become chief of staff to U.S. Housing and
Urban Development Secretary Mel Martínez. Jimenez, 37, will leave his
$99,000-a-year post as the governor's deputy chief of staff June 7.

He will help oversee 9,000 employees and a $30 billion budget,
working alongside Martínez, the former Orange County chairman who is
occasionally mentioned as a potential successor to Gov. Bush in four
years. Jimenez's new salary has not yet been determined. ''I'm torn
in leaving a boss I love and a new boss I know I'll also love,'' he
said. ``The fact that I'd be serving President Bush's administration
in Washington was obviously a strong draw.'' (snip)

(snip) Jimenez becomes the second member of his immediate family tapped for
a new job thanks to President Bush's administration. His older
brother, Marcos Jimenez, a former federal prosecutor and now a lawyer for a Miami law firm, was nominated by the president in April to be U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida. Senate confirmation is pending. (snip/...)

http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/Covert_Actions/Another_Cuban_Exile_Joins_pResident_Smirk

I'm sure you know that the top dog at H.U.D., Mel Martinez, is ALSO a Cuban "exile."

[Say_What]

36. Indictment largely symbolic without a U.S.-Cuba treaty on extradition

<clips>

After years of relentless lobbying -- in Miami and Washington, to Democrats and Republicans, behind the scenes and in front of the cameras -- Cuban exiles finally got another victory in the Brothers to the Rescue shoot-down saga.

But when the champagne stops flowing, Thursday's federal murder indictment against three principal players in the shoot-down might leave advocates for prosecution with little more than an 11-page document -- and a hangover.

The United States and Cuba don't have diplomatic relations, let alone an extradition treaty. That means the chances are slim to none of Cuba handing over fighter pilots Lorenzo Pérez Pérez and Francisco Pérez Pérez or former Cuban Air Force Gen. Rubén Martínez Puente, all named in the seven-count indictment as shoot-down co-conspirators.

WELCOMES ACCUSATION

George Fowler, general counsel for the Cuban American National Foundation, said that while commander-in-chief Fidel Castro remains the group's ''main goal,'' prosecuting the others nevertheless represents a big symbolic victory.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6591001.htm

[htuttle]

39. Bush wouldn't want an extradition treaty

If one existed, Cuba would want to extradite Orlando Bosch.

[Judi Lynn]

42. Wouldn't want to lose a favorite mass murderer/bomber

after all the trouble Jeb Bush went to, along with Otto Reich, and Cuban Representative Iliena Ros-Lehtinen, lobbying to get George H. W. Bush to get him an administrative pardon, so he could stay here, after over THIRTY countries refused to accept him.

Miami would be missing him so, after their City Commissioners went to the trouble to name a special day of the year after him. Orlando Bosch Day. Now how evil is THAT?

He was sitting in the audience, in close proximity to George W. Bush during two speeches after he became President.

Wouldn't want to lose the executioner of Cuban children!

[Osolomia]

40. How stupid can brainwashed Americans be?

Stupid enough to spend yet another MILLION of their hard earned taxpayers dollars to broadcast the US government’s TV Marti propaganda station to Cuba via satellite under the brainwashed notion that the Cubans don’t have access to a "free press".

Are Americans too stupid to realize that if there’s 20,000 satellite dishes in Cuba and “officials said Cubans might be able to fashion a device that would allow them to get the signal” then the Cubans do in fact have access to all kinds of information so what the hell do they need TV Marti for?

TV Marti To Use Satellite To Broadcast To Cuba
POSTED: 7:08 a.m. EDT August 22, 2003

MIAMI -- Officials with TV Marti, the federally funded, pro-democracy station that is broadcast into Cuba, plans to start using a satellite to reach the island.

The Miami-based Office of Cuba Broadcasting said the new effort was aimed at thwarting the Cuban government's repeated jamming of TV Marti's signal. Within days, employees will begin using the Histasat satellite, located over the east Atlantic ocean off the coast of Africa and near the equator, to strengthen the signals of both TV Marti and Radio Marti.

"We have great confidence that this platform, this satellite, is the answer we have been waiting for," Pedro Roig, director of the Office of Cuba Broadcasting, said Thursday. "It is the most modern communications technology available." The satellite technology will cost nearly $1 million.

… Analysts said the attempt to strengthen the signal was another example of the Bush administration's work to address criticism from Cuban-Americans that the Bush administration has not been tough enough on the island. Prosecutors announced the indictment Thursday of a Cuban general and two pilots for the 1996 shootdown of two civilian planes over the Florida straits.

… Otto Reich, Bush's chief adviser on Latin America, touted the satellite broadcast as "one more step the Bush administration is taking to break through the information blockade."

http://www.local6.com/news/2424403/detail.html

Morons!

[Judi Lynn]

41. Imbeciles.

So glad you pointed it out.

From your article, Jose Basulto, Miami's sage and terrorist:

(snip) "This is a mockery," said Cuban exile activist Jose Basulto. "This will only reach the hotels and Cuban government officials." (snip/...)

Add resident liar. A very well-traveled poster, B. Burnett has stated in prior posts that he personally helped some friends of his install a dish, PERSONALLY in Cuba.

Your point is completely logical. (Sometimes the obvious seems to escape the feverish minds of frenzy-driven right-wingers.) If they have dish receivers there, they already have been exposed to extra-island information.

They clearly receive tv and radio stations, without dishes, from Florida, only 90 miles away, have from the first.

If anyone doubts it, drive 90 or 100 miles from your town out in the country, and see if you can get radio and tv stations. Chances are, OF COURSE YOU CAN.

They have also been reading American papers and magazines all along. A DU poster, G. has described a conversation with a new friend in Cuba who discussed actual columnists at the Miami Herald, knowing them by name, and by their work.

Anyone who falls for the stupid claptrap from Miami now, only has himself to blame.

Duuuuuuuhh. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

[MaverickX]

44. no offense but...

If an unidentified plane violated our airspace and refused to turn back or identify itself, we'd shoot it down too.

[Judi Lynn]

45. Right from the lips of one of our own Presidents (elected, unlike W)

(snip) ..... "If planes were flying 20 to 50 miles from our shores," Eisenhower continued, "we would be very likely to shoot them down if they came in closer, whether through error or not." (..) (snip/...)

http://www.cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspace/articles/spyplanes.htm

[Mika]

52. US's own "shoot-down" plane policy resumes

I thought this story would illuminate some of the hypocrisy.


Rumsfeld, in Colombia, announces the revival of a controversial shoot-down policy.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-rumsfeld20aug20001428,1,1967324.story?coll=la-news-a_section

The White House announced on Tuesday the resumption of a controversial U.S.-backed program to shoot down suspected drug planes in Colombia.

-

The U.S. has spent more than two years wrangling over legal details of the shoot-down program, which was suspended in Colombia and Peru after a Peruvian air force jet acting on U.S. intelligence shot down a plane carrying U.S. missionaries in 2001, killing Veronica Bowers and her daughter. Between 1995 and 1999, 123 planes were shot or forced down under the program."

[Judi Lynn]

53. So in four years, they shot down 123 planes. Almost common place,

wouldn't you say? And these planes weren't involved in acts of terrorism, as were the Brothers to the Rescue planes.

One of the key sticking points has been a demand from U.S. contractors involved in directing the Colombian planes that they be free from any legal liability for mistakes.

Apparently the pilots trying to protect Cuba should ALSO have had some "demands" as well, insuring their immunity from prosecution as they DEFENDED their homeland.


Jose Basulto, head "Brother" to the Rescue

[Mika]

54. Haven't you heard?

The new 'hip' is hypocrisy.


The US gov wants to shoot down SUSPECTED drug planes while (did you notice) the 9-11 planes commandeered by foreign terrorists are allowed to fly (even a full loop around Washington) to their targets - at the same time as condemning and indicting Cuba's armed forces for defending their sovereign nation from foreign funded & based terrorists (BttR).


The Cuban pilots need not make any demands, as they were doing their sworn duty - defending Cuba from foreign based enemies/terrorists.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Yes, you're right

Their only mistake was being born in a country which wants to be free of U.S. agression.

They were protecting their homeland, which has been under continual assault since the people of Cuba overthrew the U.S. puppet monster, Fulgencio Batista.

[Judi Lynn]

56. Brother to the Rescue plants an article in the Herald!

Maybe his public image needed a pick-me-up!

(snip) Posted on Sat, Aug. 23, 2003

Brothers to Rescue founder is robbed of wallet, $18
BY SOFIA SANTANA
[e-mail]

José Basulto, a Cuban exile leader and founder of Brothers to the Rescue, was robbed during a late night stroll in South Miami.

The robbery happened at Southwest 76th Street and 58th Avenue about 11:30 p.m. Thursday. Basulto said the two robbers pulled up alongside him in a maroon 1970s Chevrolet.

After Basulto initially ignored their demands, the two men got out of the car and waved a silver handgun at him. They demanded his wallet and watch, he said.

Basulto turned over his wallet and the $18 inside it -- but not the watch.

'They wanted the watch, and I told them `no,' '' Basulto said. ``They were pointing the gun up and down my body, and it was scary because I knew they probably didn't know how to use the gun.'' (snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/6598208.htm

Any witnesses?

[Judi Lynn]

57. Obviously the whole story never made it into our media

Here's more on the shootdown of the Brothers planes:

(snip) In actuality, the Cuban government may have done no more than any other government in the world would have done under the same circumstances. The planes were determined to be within Cuban airspace, of serious hostile intent, and Cuban authorities gave the pilots explicit warning: "You are taking a risk." Indeed, both Cuban and US authorities had for some time been giving BTTR -- which patrolled the sea between Florida and Cuba looking for refugees -- similar warnings about intruding into Cuban airspace.{16} Jose Basulto, the head of BTTR, and the pilot of the plane that got away, testified at the trial that he had received warnings that Cuba would shoot down planes violating its airspace.{17} In 1995, he had taken an NBC cameraman on a rooftop-level flight over downtown Havana and rained propaganda and religious medals on the streets below,{18} the medals capable of injuring people they struck. Basulto -- a long-time CIA collaborator who once fired powerful cannonballs into a Cuban hotel filled with people{19} -- described one BTTR flight over Havana as "an act of civil disobedience".{20} His organization's planes had gone into Cuban territory on nine occasions during the previous two years with the pilots being warned repeatedly by Cuba not to return, that they would be shot down if they persisted in carrying out "provocative" flights. A former US federal aviation investigator testified at the trial that in the 1996 incident the planes had ignored warnings and entered an area that was activated as a "danger area".{21}

Also testifying was a retired US Air Force colonel and former regional commander of the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD), George Buchner. Citing National Security Agency transcripts of conversations between a Cuban battle commander on the ground and the Cuban MiG pilots in the air, he stated that the two planes were "well within Cuban airspace" and that a Cuban pilot "showed restraint" by breaking off his pursuit of the third plane as the chase headed toward international airspace.

Buchner's conclusion was at odds with earlier analyses conducted by the United States and the International Civil Aviation Organization (which relied heavily on intelligence data provided by the US). However, he added that the three planes were acting as one and that Cuba was within its sovereign rights to attack them -- even in international airspace -- because the plane that got away had entered Cuban airspace, a fact not disputed by the prosecution or other investigators.

"The trigger," said Buchner, "was when the first aircraft crossed the 12-mile territorial limit. That allowed the government of Cuba to exercise their sovereign right to protect its airspace." He stated, moreover, that the BTTR planes had given up their civilian status because they still carried the markings of the US Air Force and had been used to drop leaflets condemning the Cuban government.{22} (snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/blum0901.html