Republican landowners spout off over drilling

[Nambe]

Glenwood Springs Post Independent

Rifle rancher Joan Savage doesn't consider herself to be an environmentalist. She's also a Republican, and confrontation was the last thing on her mind last week when she got the chance to talk to Interior Secretary Gale Norton about natural gas development in the West. ..

Savage used the opportunity to share concerns with Norton relating to an ongoing lawsuit she brought against Williams Production over how much royalties she should be receiving for wells that are on her land or that she has an interest in.

She also discussed general concerns about the surface impacts of drilling, the loss of property values resulting from it, and what Savage considers to be inadequate environmental reclamation related to gas development. ..

[slappypan]

1. typical Republican

She doesn't give a shit about anything until it affects her personally, and is more than happy to clog up the courts with her lawsuits even though she would deny others the same rights.

[tabasco]

7. Exactly. Selfish and short-sighted idiots.

One of their favorite groups to exploit is future generations. They would leave massive debt and a destroyed environment for our grandchildren, but "not in my backyard." I loathe these people, who are driven solely by greed.

[kwolf68]

8. Amen

Pollution, raped environment, genetic defects, smog, toxic waste is good in someone else’s backyard.

They will eventually get what they asked for and like the responding posters in this thread say to Mrs. Savage, “Deal with it moron…This is what YOU VOTE for.”

Eventually we run out of space in minority neighborhoods to put out toxic dumps and polluting smoke-stacks. Eventually, we gotta go to YOUR home.

[mbperrin]

2. That darned Joan must be a nut! I've been reading

about how invisible and perfect drilling and production are these days! No one will ever know. Greedy harpy! She thinks just cause she owns that land that she's entitled to something for it! Sounds like commanism to me. Shut up and let those big Repub donors drill!


(Memo to me: no more Oxy at 7 am)

[leesa]

3. Tsk. Tsk. Take your medicine, Joanie! You wanted this.

[bemildred]

4. Chickens cluck wildly when Col. Sanders comes around with a hatchet.

What a moran. Who did she think she was voting for?

[hatrack]

5. My advice to Joan Savage - DEAL with it!

Your kind of people now run the government - this is what you wanted, isn't it?

America's making itself less dependent on foreign oil by expanding exploration at home - this is what you wanted, isn't it?

Big government is bad, especially when it interferes with the full exploitation of our God-given natural resources, and the Bush administration is simply recognizing this fact - this is what you wanted, isn't it?

Gale Norton is a staunch believer in private property and states' rights - this is what you wanted, isn't it?

And besides, Ms. Savage, you're welcome to buy some shares in Williams and make your opinions known at the annual shareholders' meeting so you can change the system from within as part of the new "society of ownership" - and I'm quite sure that's what you wanted - isn't it?

[havocmom]

6. We might just get more swing voters if we treat people like Joan with some

empathy. Just because someone is a Republican, we are rude and vindictive? How does that gain us new voters? How about we listen to them, then explain how our candidates would better serve their interests?

Hey, we are running a ticket that admits to being misled by the junta on the matter of war powers. We accept that bushco lied to the Senate about how things would be handled on the international stage and we forgive our boys for falling for the lies. How about we extend the same courtesy and consideration for average republican voters who now see that they have been lied to and exploited? It might just help us win elections.

We need more than the White House if we are actually gonna change the direction this nation is going in. If we insist in fighting with someone just because they are Republican, we will continue along the course of partisan bickering and miss the turn off that leads back to co-operation and making progress in America.

[kwolf68]

9. That is fine

But the "wise use" crowd are not people you can deal with. I'm not saying this lady is, but she sounds exactly like the person who wouldn't CARE if this was being done 200 miles away from her home. We can't expect to appeal to people who have such a selfish view of the world.

If she said ANYTHING that lead ANYONE to believe that she opposed these measures for ANY OTHER reason than selfishness then I'd agree with you. But at the end of the day she didn't demonstrate she is a viable Democratic target.

[pop goes the weasel]

10. Oh come on

The majority of people, and this includes Democrats, believe what is comfortable for them to believe. Only when they have direct in-your-face evidence to the contrary do they start to suspect they've been had. And some of them resolutely refuse to believe they've been had. Give Joan Savage credit--she's at least questioning the system. From here, she may even want to change it.

[havocmom]

11. I live in a highly republican area full of ranchers

and we can make allies of many of these folks, believe me. But we won't do it by being guilty of the same sorts of knee-jerk reactions we accuse the other party of. If we cannot bother to actually listen and learn about the needs and concerns of others, how the hell do we get them to listen to our ideas for making things better for everybody?

I do not apologize for thinking we play right into the neocons' hands when we adopt the tactics of making generalizations based on what we assume we know about rank and file GOP voters.

There are plenty of people who are just not gonna be too bothered with what is beyond their own limited views. They are on both sides of the political spectrum and there is a huge pool of them on the fence.

Don't assume you know someone's mind. You might be overwhelmed by the fact that there is a LOT of anti-bush* sentiment around ranch country. You might be surprised at what I hear from neighbors. They are not happy about outsourcing of American jobs, though most are not affected by it at all. They do not like the way the junta lied about the threat Iraq posed. They especially do not like that US troops are dying for that lie and US policy is making sure the ranks of terrorists will swell in coming years. They do not like paying too much for fuel when many are seeing the wisdom of working on alternative energy sources.

They made a mistake by believing in their candidates. The media is partly to blame but individual voters must accept that they were hoodwinked. That is tough. It was tough for Kerry to admit he was hoodwinked in the vote which allowed bush* to invade Iraq. It happens. Now how do we move on? How do we help voters save face while admitting they erred? How do we say, yes, we are all suffering for it and here is how we can all work to end the suffering? The way we handle those tasks will decide for many whether they face their bad choices and make better ones in the future or whether they feel so threatened by our anger that they stubbornly cling to their bad choices and delusions just to be able to live with themselves and us.

Give us a break and listen to them. Hear them. Then show them how we can work toward solutions which are win-win instead of them vs us.

THAT is how we will save America. Following the lead of Newt and Rush toward jingoism, assumptions, and vindictive hate will only ensure that the likes of Newt and Rush come out winners. America is more important than that

[hatrack]

12. "We had about an hour and we had a lovely visit with her," Savage said.

EDIT

"It was very clear that we're not environmentalists and we're not trying to create trouble over this. We're just trying to get these troubles addressed."

Savage believes Norton took the landowners' comments seriously.

"She was very, very kind and said she was going to go back to Washington and look into all these matters," Savage said.

EDIT

So, she's making it clear that they're not environmentalists. They're not going to create trouble about this, and Sec. Norton will be "looking into all these matters" when she returns to Washington. She's certainly not going to rock the boat, and was apparently quite content with some boilerplate statements. Gosh, sounds like a veritable Sagebrush Rebellion's spreading fast, making these just the people to target to vote for Kerry this time around.

The article is largely devoted to describing her concerns about royalty payments, leases and accurate metering of production. Of course, there were those "general concerns" on the environment, but it's mainly about money.

[havocmom]

13. A lot of ranchers are quiet people.

When some speak out at all, it is important evidence of the current flowing under the surface. We can nurture that undercurrent and make it more likely dissent will surface again, or we can deride that undercurrent and make damn sure it never changes course.

In my little county, I have chosen to nurture the current and I'll be damned if more and more hasn't come to the surface.

We err, to our own detriment, when we equate people who vote for GOP candidates with those candidates and the conniving machinery which works for their election. They are not one and the same.

So do we want to win elections and change the direction or do we want to rub noses in the shit and reassure that people will never give us a chance because we are vindictive and unwelcoming?
:shrug:

The election is ours to win or lose. But we do either one voter at a time.