Globe and Mail: Canada shuts out vaccine seekers

[Hand]

Ontario and Alberta are cracking down on the growing number of Americans who are scrambling to get flu shots in Canada as the anxiety over a shortage of vaccine in the United States spreads north of the border.

With half of the U.S. supply choked off by quality-control problems, clinics such as the border outpost of the Northwestern Health Unit in Fort Frances, Ont., have been getting a steady steam of calls from worried Americans.

"There was even somebody from Florida wanting to purchase a dose," said Cindy McKinnon, the clinic's vaccine specialist.

Grope and Flail

[XanaDUer]

1. But, but

Our Fearless Leader said that Canadian drugs were *dangerous* and from third worlds!

[Zak]

12. Hahahahahaha

Canada a third world country? Hahahahaha, sounds like something the IDIOT Bush would say.This is plain politics, and thats all. Our people are good, honest, peaceful, generous people. But when you have Idiots like Bush trying to put tariffs on anything that we try and export to you,shun us because we didn't sign on for your illegal war, try and blame us for MadCow, I think it's only fair to try and keep our vaccines for ourselves. Even your neighbour to the North has had enough of your sick little reptile bastard president. But like poor Cuba, I'm sure Butcher Bush has us in his sites as well.I used to love going to the States once or twice a year to see the country and talk with the real people, but alas, America is sinking into a cesspool that they may never re-bound from.I am not the only one that feels this way, sad to say, I haven't visited your once great country since 1999, no more desire to after what has happened since.

[acmavm]

19. Don't blame you. 'Once great' is the perfect definition. But please, don't

hold it against all of us. Do Canadians think we're all like the fundies and the bush*ies. Remember, we didn't elect bush*, he was forced on us.

[aquart]

2. Socialized medicine has vaccine. Privatized medicine doesn't.

Gosh. How could that be?

[oscar111]

3. Nationalize every corner of healthcare. All other rich nations already

have done so. Germany did it in 1890's. We are a century behind.

A century!

20 nations outlive us .

2000 WHO of the UN, report: the usa ranked at .. get this... 72nd in health of the population. THE WORLD HEALTH REPORT is the exact title, IIRC.

OK, just dug up the source:
Skip past the 37 statistic, which is not the damning one.. i refer to the health of the population, mentioned at the very bottom here.
=============
Costa Rica beat us. Morrocco too.
The 37 th referrs to the health system of hospitals, doctors and such.
================
USA 37th in quality of health care. the nations which put us to shame, (all spending LESS per person), are - in order, france, italy, san marino, , andorra, malta, singapore, spain, oman, austria, japan norway, portugal, monaco, greece , iceland, luxembourg, netherlands, britain, ireland, switzerland, belgium, columbia, sweden, cyprus, germany, saudi arabla, united arab emirates, israel, morroco , canada, finland, australia, chile, denmark, dominica, costa rica.  

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Just below us, in order, are

slovenia,

cuba,

etc.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Source, World Health Organization, THE WORLD HEALTH REPORT 2000.  

note: in rankings of the health of the people in each nation, the USA was even worse - 72nd.

[mulsh]

4. why is Chiron the US's only vaccine manufacturer

so much for the free market, I guess.

[oldhippie]

5. Good question....

Why aren't other US companies manufacturing the vaccine? It would seem that with the huge demand there would be big incentives to profit. What's the catch?

[smirf]

11. Vaccines -- fluctuating demand, low profit, strict regulations

In The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/

"...In recent decades, many drug companies in the United States abandoned the manufacture of vaccines, saying that they were expensive to make, underpriced and not sufficiently profitable. Flu vaccine can be a particular gamble, because the demand for it varies from year to year and companies must throw away what they do not sell because a new vaccine must be made each year to deal with changing strains of the virus. Some companies dropped out because of lawsuits, and others because they determined that it would not pay to retool aging vaccine plants to meet regulatory standards..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/health/17flu2.html?hp&ex=1097985600&en=b65df55681200283&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[oldhippie]

21. Thanks, that's interesting......

but there is still something amiss here. Even if they are expensive to make, and there is the possibility that some will be thrown away, the companies could still price them accordingly in order to make a profit. It sure seems that the demand is there. Sure, there would be competition to hold the prices down, but surely SOME (more that one?) companies would enter the market.

Other drugs are expensive to nake and sell (my cholesteral med being one), and have lawsuits involving them, but there are still multiple sources.

So what is inhibiting the market pricing mechanism, and causing scarcity?

[drdtroit]

26. Heaven for-fucking-bid that the pharmaceutical

companies do anything approaching altruism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. not enouhg profit

hence why public health does not belong in the free market

[Zak]

13. Get used to it!!!!

That is part of the plan. Big government, and Big business....the rich get richer and the rest suffer.NWO is here.

[Kellanved]

20. it is not the only one - there are two

Aventis, a French/German (now probably just French) company, is the other one. The Aventis batch is OK - but covers only half the demand.

AFAIK the reason is the cumbersome and expensive FDA licensing procedure (which is set to get even worse), which was created with the full intention of limiting the number of vaccine producers.

[Bridget Burke]

29. Chiron is not the only manufacturer for the US

They are the only US company making vaccine for the US--although they outsourced it to an English facility. That facility was to supply about 60% of our vaccine--but only 10 to 20% of the vaccine used by the UK.

Our other source is a French company. There's nothing wrong with their stuff--but there isn't enough. And the price was a bit higher.

Most public health entities had ordered the Chiron vaccine to save money. So they're out of luck.

[TahitiNut]

6. Well, if I catch the flu, maybe I'll go to some Canadian theaters and ...

... restaurants with it? :evilgrin:

In all seriousness .. the epidemiological concerns regarding such diseases make it in the public interest to provide vaccines to others if only to prevent the spread of the disease. There are plenty of Americans who travel to Canada on a regular basis. It's in Canada's interest to ensure these people aren't susceptible and spreading disease.

[tuvor]

9. Well, sure, but a little advance notice would have been nice.

There ARE ten times as many of you guys, after all.

Were Canadian agencies ever given a heads-up by bush's team?

[TahitiNut]

17. I guess the intended sardonic humor was filtered as it crossed the border.

:shrug:

[tuvor]

31. No worries. Your "point" isn't without its merits. n/t

[Brundle_Fly]

10. hehe

"Well, if I catch the flu, maybe I'll go to some Canadian theaters and restaurants with it?"

Go ahead, we love American dollars in our economy, even if it is devaluing pretty rapidly in contrast, but remember we are all getting our flu shots here for free. So the chances of your transference is pretty low to zilch.

Find it funny how Bush can act so opposed to a government controlled heath care system, saying how disastrous they are, like Canada, Australia, France, Norway, Japan etc are all suffering from it.

[K8-EEE]

15. Yeah, I Don't Know Why Canadians Should Subsidize the US

The Canadians invest in health care which is what we should be doing == instead of investing in bombs and war.

[TahitiNut]

24. Believe me, the hypocrisy isn't at all lost on me.

I think I'd love to take out Canadian citizenship and become an expatriate - for the sake of caring for my mother and then for the warmer weather.

[Zak]

14. Well, if I catch the flu, maybe I'll go to some Canadian theaters and ..."

Now there is a typical American response, and why the rest of the world hates you.

[K8-EEE]

16. Seriously--- but we aren't all assholes here in the US!

The Ugly Americans are just LOUDER....LOL!

[TahitiNut]

25. I don't get the impression he gives a shit.

:shrug:

[sandnsea]

27. It were a joke friend

I thought Canadians had a better sense of humor.

Although, as far as I'm concerned, if US flu becomes a problem for Canada, keep us out.

[qwertyMike]

7. I just got my FREE flu shot here

in Nova Scotia, Canada.
They called me

[Benhurst]

8. As well they should. After all, America has the best health

care in the world, or so we are told. Don't scurry over the boarder like frightened rabbits just because you are facing a deadly plague, BushAmericans. Stand tall!

[Zak]

18. "As well they should. After all, America has the best health care"

More sarcasm? Hahahahaha

[Brundle_Fly]

23. hehe

"As well they should. After all, America has the best health care"

America does have the best health care. If you can afford it, if you can't it is somewhere inbetween best and worst.

[amandabeech]

28. If the Republicans had any compassion and brains, they'd be

looking hard for some way to waive FDA approval for this particular emergency situation, so that the U.S. could purchase, for full price, any unneeded flu vaccine from any of the other industrialized countries, which would include Canada, of course so that all U.S. residents in the high-risk group could receive the vaccine.

The Bush administration officials know that medicines from Canada and other developed nations are perfectly safe. In an emergency, it might be worthwhile to accept medicine from the more reputable manufacturers in such countries as Brazil and India that have a good reputation.

Canadians, not all Americans are neocons, religious fanatics or other right wingers. Certainly, those of us who will be voting for Kerry and other Democratic candidates do not fit that description.

I even know some moderate Republicans who cannot bring themselves to vote for Kerry for various reasons, but really do not like what Bush is doing, and wish that they had a more moderate, sensible Republican candidate for whom to vote.

[Steelangel]

30. there is nothing to worry about.. yes, really.. <eom>