Kelly overdosed - evidence

[dArKeR]

Weapons scientist David Kelly, caught up in a political storm about the government's case for war in Iraq, ingested a potentially fatal dose of painkillers in addition to apparently slashing his left wrist, a toxicologist testified on Wednesday.

David Kelly, 59, had taken about 30 tablets of coproxamol, about 10 times the recommended dose, forensic toxicologist Richard Allan told a judicial inquiry.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1411082,00.html

[VolcanoJen]

1. Gosh, I would think it's pretty difficult...

... to effectively slash your wrists while doped-out on coproxamol.

Interesting... and how convenient that he ingested pills that are considered, in the UK, the #1 overdose pill...

http://bmj.com/uknews/news20030513.shtml#5

Researchers call for reduced prescribing of Coproxamol
Source: Guardian Section 2
Date: 13/05/2003
Researchers at Oxford University have called for the painkiller Coproxamol to be prescribed less often because it is one of the most commonly used drugs in attempted overdoses. Oxford University psychiatrists report in the British Medical Journal that people committing suicide by overdose are twice as likely to die as a result of an overdose of Coproxamol than of antidepressants. Fatal overdoses due to Coproxamol are the second most frequent means of suicide with prescribed drug in England and Wales. Restricting availability of Coproxamol could have an important role in suicide prevention.

[meegbear]

3. he could have taken the pills ....

THEN slashed his wrist.

Or is coproxamol's effects instantaneous when ingested?

[hang a left]

9. stinky stinky stinky

[Junkdrawer]

2. "Had taken" = undigested pills in his stomach OR drug in his bloodstream..

Big difference.

[NNN0LHI]

4. The story keeps changing. He bled to death from a cut on his wrist. No

He overdosed. Yea. Thats just the ticket.

Don

[FlashHarry]

5. To quote Blackadder...

'He accidentally brutally cut his head off while shaving.'

[EFF BrandyWine]

28. I loved Blackadder...

n/t

[MGKrebs]

6. I'd probably take some painkillers before

cutting my wrists, too.

[MoonAndSun]

7. Anyone who believes this latest story about David Kelley's "suicide"

most probably believes the "Niger" story and the "45 minutes" story, etc.

[MurrayDelph]

13. Next we'll hear

that he accidentally shot himeself between the eyes with a crossbow while his hands were tied behind him.

[FlaGranny]

8. It's hard to take 30 pills

without water to wash them down. I remember that he spoke to a woman acquaintance who said she didn't see him carrying anything, so he didn't have any water with him.

[Nottingham]

10. How do you get 30 Pain killers! Where did he get Prescriptions

:bounce:

And yes its hard to slit your wrist!

[Nottingham]

11. 30 Painkillers is Way Overkill! The Man would be way Doped up

This is like Marilyn Monroe!

:bounce:

[pw]

12. His wife was taking the drug

for arthritis pain. So that much at least makes sense.

[Abe Linkman]

16. Balliol Brothers Pharmacy

"Prescriptions Without A Prescription. Just see our boy at the back, and tell him Necessity" sent you."

[Nottingham]

14. Was her Bottle from her home missing!

:bounce:

[AP]

18. Yes it was. Her prescription bottle was with him when he was found.

And the knife he used was his scout knife which he had since childhood. They were both found next to his body. This was all in the testimony two days ago.

[RainDog]

24. this convinces me it was suicide

somone would have to really, really twist a scenario to conclude anything else based upon your post.

it is nevertheless horrible that this man, whose daughter was getting married so soon, would feel so desperate that he would kill himself for telling the truth.

It is tragic, in fact.

[CaptainClark23]

15. A-ha!

This would explain the heart monitor pads he was wearing on his chest. He took the pills, then carefully monitored his reaction via a portable device (which was then carried off by a local woodland animal to use as furniture, leaving the pads on Kelly's chest), so that he would know the precise timing for slashing his wrists before the drug's effects rendered him incapable of such an action. He WAS a scientist, after all.

Now I see clearly....

[SharonAnn]

20. Well, hadn't he been in a "safe house" a couple of days before

thies "suicide"?

I wonder what drugs they gave him there and if they were the kind that could induce paranoid thoughts, depression, etc. thus leading to suicide.

[berry]

21. The pads were put there by the emergency med team--

trying to resuscitate him. (This according to an article I read but can't link to now, sorry.) And when he didn't come round, they had to leave the pads in place so that every mark could be explained in the autopsy. Apparently it's SOP.

I too suspected foul play, but even if he did commit suicide, there's ample reason to believe he was hounded into it. Maybe even on purpose. There was a story about him being threatened with loss of his pension. There may have been other threats too.

[Gman]

17. Kelly probably didn't fly small planes much

so they had to improvise.

[Starpass]

23. GMan--that was priceless---hahaha n/t

[Chovexani]

19. To paraphrase Chris Rock

Tomorrow we'll find out that he died from athlete's foot.

[stickdog]

22. Why are we just finding this out? (NT)

[dArKeR]

25. Anyone got a pic of this pill? I can't find one. Is it a small tab or

large capsule?

[Emillereid]

26. I still can't figure out his rationale for killing himself

He has been described as mad and distressed about being outed by the Blairites -- did he have a long history of depression and suicidal ideation? Was he on antidepressants. Usually there is some history of abject hopelessness. What about the inquiry and the revelation that he talked to the BBC would have made him feel so bad that he would see the only way out was suicide -- I'm trained as a psychologist and I can't get this suicide story to compute. Anyone know what the 'official' or ' accepted' story is regarding his motivation for suicide??

[Zhade]

27. IIRC

He practiced the Baha'i faith, which forbids suicide.

http://bahai-library.org/essays/ethics.survey/

[RapidCreek]

29. I'd be real interested to know

how many pints of blood he lost as a result of his cut wrists. This would give us a good idea of how much time elapsed between his ingestion of the pills and his death. If the heart is stopped the body won't bleed....or will bleed a very small amount. It would also be interesting to know what level of coproximal was found in his blood stream....as this would give an indication of the level of consciousness he retained when he slit his wrists...or if he could have been conscious at all.

It would be quite easy to break into a persons home, steal a bottle of what ever deadly substance was handy and force them, at gunpoint, to ingest that substance. Further, after consciousness of the victim was lost, a four year old could cut their wrists without allot of trouble.

Most people over the age of fifty have some sort of prescription pain killer in their home...or at the very least one or two deadly chemicals under the sink or in the kitchen closet....and I'd say if you went through most mens chest of drawers or desk or automobile you would quite probably find a pocket knife.

The currently released information about Kelly's death does nothing to convince me that it was the result of suicide.

RC