Bin Laden family's US exit 'approved' by Bush administration

[nitetalker]

Edinburgh Evening News Online

THE United States allowed members of Osama bin Laden’s family to jet out of the US in the immediate aftermath of September 11, even as American airspace was closed.

Former White House counter-terrorism tsar Richard Clarke said the Bush administration sanctioned the repatriation of about 140 high-ranking Saudi Arabians, including relatives of the al-Qaida chief.

"Somebody brought to us for approval the decision to let an aeroplane filled with Saudis, including members of the Bin Laden family, leave the country," he said.

Mr Clarke said he checked with FBI officials, who gave the go ahead. "So I said: ‘Fine, let it happen.’"

He first asked the bureau to check that no-one "inappropriate" was leaving.

"I have no idea if they did a good job," he added.

more

[bif]

1. This is LBN?

I read about this two years ago.

[Maple]

2. It's just been

admitted, and is no longer an urban legend type story.

[Ediacara]

7. the revelation that it ACTUALLY happened is

The bin laden exit has been moved into the realm of "urban legend" and has been partially debunked by the likes of Snopes, as having happened AFTER airspace was reopened and was not ordered by Bush. For an official to say that it DID happen when airspace was closed and it WAS ordered by Bush, then ya, that IS news.

[realFedUp]

3. While this is old news...

the mainstream media in the US has yet to print it.

[Wetzelbill]

6. Oh the mainstream

U.S. news has not printed an important issue? That must be the first time ever. :)

[Fridays Child]

26. Great. Another sarcastic DUer. Just what we need.

Welcome, fellow Tucsonan. You're among (lots of sarcastic) friends here.

:hi:

[VolcanoJen]

50. Well, the New York Times is pretty damned mainstream....

... and they're all over it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/politics/04SAUD.html

Thanks to Nambe for the link... here's that thread (now locked as a duplicate) for further reading on this issue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=96302

- Jennifer

[Nottingham]

4. Did Bush help Osama Bin Laudin! Right It sure Looks like it!

Saudis are not our friends. FBI where were you guys!

[Nottingham]

8. Its Latest Breaking News in Edinburgh! And that counts

:bounce:

[MidwestTransplant]

5. I thought Snopes debunked this rumor

at least to the extent that it happend while airspace was closed.

[Ediacara]

9. for Richard Clarke

to say it happened while it was still closed puts some doubt into Snopes' explanation.

[Walt Starr]

10. They did, but apparently the debunking is now debunked!

Snopes calls it false here:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

But this is a new story about it citing sources. How much more LBN can you get?

[patcox2]

22. I wrote to snopes about that so called "debunking" about a year ago.

I told them they were wrong, citing numerous mainstream press sources. The response was very snotty and condescending and they insisted they were right based on a very strained argument and insisiting that even if I had press reports thenn the press reports were wrong and their press sources were right.

I have written off snopes as a source for political information ever since, they were highly biased when it came to the bin laden flight.

By the way, the Bin Laden family members from Boston were flown on a US government airplane to a secret location in Texas, during the 3 day grounding, Snopes vehemently denied that, too, even though it was in the Washington Post, snopes said the story's source wasn't good enough.

[paulthompson]

34. In your face, Snopes!

You too, Patcox2? I did the exact same thing about six months ago. I sent Snopes a link to the Tampa Tribune article "Phantom Flight from Florida" amongst other things that clearly debunked their "urban legend." There snotty response was that they were talking about flights leaving the US not flights inside the US which was complete bullshit if you read their page. Then they just stopped answering emails.

As for the poster who asks why does this matter, it clearly does, because a real urban legend / propaganda myth is that the bin Laden family has nothing to do with Osama. While most of his 50+ brothers and sisters have cut themselves off from him, many haven't. For instance, several went to a wedding of Osama's son in Afghanistan earlier in 2001, a couple sisters were seen to be transferring money to him before 9/11, and so on. The White House cancelled an FBI investigation into two bin Laden brothers living in Virginia that involved terrorism and murder, and two of the hijackers ended up living only three blocks from these same brothers. The night before 9/11, a couple hijackers in Boston slept with a prostitute that was the personal favorites of another bin Laden brother, and so on.

But all these relatives living in the US were given a cursory 30 minute exit interview as they left the US, and that is all. One brother even told the press he didn't get that, but just got a brief call from the FBI. Clearly they were/are being protected because they're the second richest family in Saudi Arabia, not to mention the personal business ties between these people and Bush himself. For instance, on the morning of 9/11 itself, yet another bin Laden relative was in a Carlyle Group meeting with lots of Bush's business buddies.

[stickdog]

43. Count me among Snopes' debunkers on this.

I send the Snopes' people a full list of evidence debunking their debunking.

The reply was just a step above something you'd expect from a freeper.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. snopes was wrong

it is possible you know. I heard about this before airspace was open. How could it have happened after airspace was open?

[Nottingham]

11. Look at Sept 03/03 theres the 33 again!

Nitetalker thanks for the article! :bounce:

[nyrnyr1994]

52. 33! 33!

I'm not sure what the "33" means, but I had the urge to pop open a bottle of Rolling Rock (another mysterious "33" on the bottle). If someone could explain the 33 I'd be greatly appreciated.

[Sushi_lover]

12. Safe passage for the Bush family

I'm voting for whatever candidate promises no safe passage for America's leading terrorist family, the Bushes.

[el_gato]

13. when will Snopes come clean?

I wonder if Snopes will address this article.

[Walt Starr]

14. I notified them

I told them their debunking had been debunked.

[diamond14]

23. is snoops just a BFEE, dressed up a bit to really fool us...??? nt

.

[FlashHarry]

28. Not at all.

It has debunked several anti-Clinton/Gore e-mails that are going around. It seems to be fairly, ahem, balanced.

[diamond14]

42. snoop story and this recent revelation in the news seem to be

world's apart...plus if you read the snoop stuff, it seems extremely BIASED, reflects innuendo and character assassination, further, it gives no real information as a basis for it's decision....


-snips from snoop...NOTICE that even this BIAS against Michael Moore, and snoops accusation that Moore has "spun" this...this is a really toned down version, as they have already made significant changes to there first stories (note date of changes on bottom)...snoops original story was horrible...it simply covered bush* donors, the Osama bin Laden family...only changed it when called on it, failing to admit the erroneous info first shoved on the public immediately after the bin Ladens flew away...IMO, no DUers should pay further attention to snoops, simply part of the cover-up for shrub and his minions couched under some kind of nobility...this is a snoop cover-up and it led the country off track from the real criminals here....

----------------------------------------------

Michael Moore spun all of this into a tale like this one excerpted from a 2 January 2002 interview with Al D'Amato and Alan Colmes of the FOX Network:


"Why don't we look at the connections between the Bush family and Saudi Arabia, why this country will not really go after where the money probably came from? Why did this country allow the bin Laden jet?

Let me ask you this, Al. Why did this country allow the bin Laden family, two days after -- two days after September 11 — to fly around America and pick up all the bin Laden relatives, about 24 of them, and take them to Europe? Not a single one of them was interrogated by the FBI. Do you think, if your brother was accused of killing somebody, and they couldn't find him, that they might come and talk to you, maybe ask you a few questions?"


Last updated: 3 September 2003

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

[rogerashton]

15. Is this a bad thing?

Unless the bin Laden family were associated with Osama's terrorist enterprise -- and the common wisdom is that they were not -- or some of the other Suadis allowed out were co-conspirators, allowing them to leave may have avoided a nasty international lynching incident. To that extent, I think it might have been the right decision. Had it been my decision to make, I hope I would have had a cool enough head to make the decision that way, even at some risk that a co-conspirator might escape. Better that than that citizens of another country might have been attacked for being relatives of a do-badder. We don't hold relatives responsible for the bad actions of others in our system. That the administration felt a need to cover it up, which has now been blown by former associates who were in office at the time, is further evidence of Bushco's incompetence, but God knows that there is nothing new about that.

[htuttle]

16. Hmm...but where did that 'common wisdom' come from?

Who said that the rest of the bin Ladens were unconnected to Osama's exploits? The Bush administration, that's who.

In fact, in the time since 9/11, there have been several indications that Osama isn't quite the 'black sheep of the family' that he's made out to be. Two other brothers are connected to a charity that's had it's assets frozen in the US, for example. The FBI has been unable to question them, since they are now in Saudi Arabia.

[demdave]

17. Agreed, the relatives were not involved and needed spotective support.

But then we have people around here that want to hold another Neurenburgh (sp?)trial for Arnold and convict him for his father's alledged crimes.

[Beetwasher]

21. How do you know that?

That's absurd...Can you be any more hyperbolic re: Arnold? Yeesh...

The gov't doesn't even want to admit that they flew the family out of the country before an investigation even got started, but you already know they weren't involved? You must be omniscient, or maybe you take this admins word for it...The BL family could have been kept quite safe under the auspices of federal protection so there would be no fear of a lynch mob...

Bush admin: "Our oil and business partners were no way involved with 9/11 based on the following interview"

Investigators: "Were you involved?"

Bin Laden's family: "Nope"

Investigators: "Good enough for me, here's a plane, you can leave now even though no one else in the country is allowed near an airplane. Bon Voyage, don't forget to write!"

[paulthompson]

38. More on bin Laden family ties to Osama

see my post above, #34. Here's details on a few connections between Osama and his family (that we know of):

September 11, 1996: An FBI investigation into two relatives of bin Laden, begun in February 1996, is closed. The FBI wanted to learn more about Abdullah bin Laden, "because of his relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY) - a suspected terrorist organization." (Guardian, 11/7/01) Abdullah was the US director of WAMY and lived with his brother Omar in Falls Church, Virginia, a town just outside Washington. The coding on the document, marked secret, indicates the case involved espionage, murder, and national security. WAMY has its offices at 5613 Leesburg Pike. Remarkably, it is later determined that four of the 9/11 hijackers lived at 5913 Leesburg Pike at the same time the two bin Laden brothers were there. WAMY has not been put on a list of terrorist organizations in the US, but it has been banned in Pakistan. (BBC Newsnight, 11/6/01, Guardian, 11/7/01) The Bosnian government later says a charity with Abdullah bin Laden on its board had channeled money to Chechen guerrillas, something that "is only possible because the Clinton CIA gave the wink and nod to WAMY and other groups who were aiding Bosnian guerrillas when they were fighting Serbia, a US-approved enemy." The investigation into WAMY is only restarted two days after 9/11, and after the bin Laden brothers have left the US. (Best Democracy Money Can Buy, by Greg Palast, 2/03)

(as an aside, it was recently announced that WAMY is being investigated for ties to al-Qaeda)

February 2001 (B): A former CIA anti-terror expert later claims that an allied intelligence agency sees "two of Osama's sisters apparently taking cash to an airport in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), where they are suspected of handing it to a member of bin Laden's al-Qaeda organization." This is cited as one of many incidents showing an "interconnectedness" between Osama bin Laden and the rest of his family. (New Yorker, 11/5/01)

February 26, 2001: Bin Laden attends the wedding of his son Mohammad in Kandahar, Afghanistan. Although bin Laden is supposedly long estranged from his family, bin Laden's stepmother, two brothers and sister are also said to have attended, according to the only journalist who was invited. (Reuters, 3/1/01, Sunday Herald, 10/7/01)

July 4-14, 2001: Bin Laden, America's most wanted criminal with a $5 million bounty on his head, supposedly receives lifesaving treatment for renal failure from American surgeon specialist Dr. Callaway at the American hospital in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. He is possibly accompanied by al-Qaeda #2 Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri plus several bodyguards. Callaway later refuses to answer any questions on this matter. (Le Figaro, 10/31/01, Agence France-Presse, 11/1/01, London Times, 11/01/01) During his stay, bin Laden is visited by "several members of his family and Saudi personalities," including Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, as well as two CIA officers. (Guardian, 11/1/01)

[RamboLiberal]

18. Excuse me - when many innocent people of ME descent

were being rounded up and put into jails by Asscroft for weeks and months, and being denied counsel, we let the bin Ladens and other Saudis just fly off without questioning?

The whore media and the Democrats in this country should've been screaming about this. If Clinton or Gore had done this the Repugs would've been drawing up impeachment papers.

And what about those blanked out 28 pages in the 9-11 report. And Bush & Cheney threatening Dems not to even investigate 9-11.

The silence in this country is deafening.

Now back to Kobe and Scott Petersen.

[ozymandius]

24. Point well taken. I am curious.

This is the sort of thing that should resonate not just through the White House but through the Justice Department too. If one were serious about isolating the living perpetrators of 9/11, shouldn't one start questioning next-of-kin?

[tlcandie]

45. What rmpalmer said!!

:hi:

What's fair for one is fair for the others! This society should NOT be exclusive :P

Speaks again of the hypocricy of it all...if you have money then they won't come arrest/humilate/jail you for no reason!

Only the OFUs...one fodder units as * calls us!

[damnraddem]

25. These are rich folks, with protected compounds.

They were not candidates for lynching. There was no security reason to let them fly out during the grounding. On the other hand, there were political reasons -- Bin Ladens et al. just weren't politically convenient to have on hand at the time.

[maxsolomon]

27. no one knew his relatives were here

except the bushes & their minions.

i doubt a lynching party could have got organized.

[stickdog]

44. GOOD IDEA! I mean, we needed to concentrate on imprisoning

thousands of brown people for months or even years without bringing any evidence against them or allowing them to see lawyers, filling up Gitmo with other random Muslims, and murdering thousands of innocent Afghanis and Iraqis instead.

Never mind that fact the Bin Laden and 14 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. Questioning the relatives of the culprits would have just been a big distraction!

[VolcanoJen]

51. If this were Clinton/Gore, how would the VRWC have reacted?

One can only imagine the hatred spewed about something like this, had Clinton/Gore been at the helm that fateful day.

Time has come, yet again, to call these people on their blatant hypocrisy.

It's almost getting tired, this hypocrisy, isn't it?

[WillyT]

19. Doesn't That Make TWO Rescue Flights For The Bin Ladens ???

One from the U.S. right after 9\11, and one from Afghanistan to Pakistan as we were 'closing in' on Osama ???

:grr::shrug::grr:

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Add that

to the flight from Baghdad Airport right before Baghdad fell.

I think we know exactly where Saddam and Osama are. We flew them there.

[Sterling]

39. You mean the "Airlift of Evil"

http://propagandamatrix.com/the_airlift_of_evil.html

[matcom]

20. this is JUST getting 'reported'?

so i guess in 2008 we'll suddenly learn that BUSH KNEW? :puke:

[David Zephyr]

29. This Story Has Legs. It Disturbs Even the Most Rabid Right Wingers.

The Bush family and Bush Administration is very nervous about this and has done very well thus far in keeping this story buried. It goes to the very heart of the decades-long incestuous financial relationship between Old Man Bush and his son.

[kentuck]

31. Prince Bandar is a good friend of the Bush family...

Who do you think he asked? Poppy?

[proud patriot]

32. Anyone who Supports bush after gaining this knowledge

:grr:Is A Traitor To America and The Constitution :grr:

[crissy71]

35. Went to Snopes

here's the link

http://snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

and if you scroll down, they have the same quote from Clarke, except it's from Vanity Fair - so it looks like the Scottish paper lifted the quote, which can be taken out of context - the other quotes in the piece can be taken out of context as well, i.e. they don't directly allege that the flight left DURING the lock-down

Hate to throw cold water - I'd love to believe this as much as anyone - if you must flame be gentle

[Nottingham]

36. Instead of taking Snopes as the King of Truth Maybe we need

to check the log books of how many plane flights left the country when there was a No Fly Zone time


That would be pretty easy and have the Log of who the passengers were?

Wonder what Airline they flew?

I would like to know that answer?

[jus_the_facts]

37. Since when has Snopes become the *bottom line*....

....it really is bothersome that so many take their word as *gospel*....seems rather obsurd to believe this one site as the bearers of all that is true or not :evilfrown:

[Democat]

53. Snopes became more right wing after 9/11

Like Dennis Miller, Snopes seemed to take a Bush loving turn shortly after 9/11.

[jus_the_facts]

54. ...before my time....virtually speaking......

....did not know that...I based my post being ignorant of their digression since 9/11...it was reading some of their *proof* for debunking some of the events that day...which made me skeptical of their explinations...:shrug:

[stickdog]

48. And who the hell is Snopes' precious source?

And since the flight required special government approval at the highest levels -- as confirmed by two sources in the article -- what the hell is the nitpicking about?

It's like saying, "We didn't make the EPA lie about the air quality around the WTC three times. Just twice!"

[Starpass]

40. THAT has blown my mind since, oh, Sept. 12th

How the fuck did they so quickly say "god, surprise attack--it's bin Laden--find his kin and put them on a plane". Now stay with me on this----we have Aschroft putting every Arab-looking poor son of a bitch in jail or being tailed or being bugged, etc. BUT the goddamn family of the guy "who done did it" are whisked out of the country because, of course, they could provide no info on Uncle Osama, right??---and no one thought to ask, golllll darn. This fucking, fucking smells. If they truly were afraid just for their safety they could have put them in a zillion secure places here----would you have walked down the street, passed one of them and said "gee, don't I know you from somewhere"?? I will always (not because of partisanship--this is much bigger than that) believe the Bush crime family were up their pits in this. It was the key that unlocked the future they masterbate over.

[Starpass]

41. PS--what's this debunk stuff you are talking about??

I fucking watched this live and on tv--shot through a fence of an airfield like the day after and the media outright reported that these were bin Ladens kin (even showing snaps of college campuses some of them were on, etc.) and that they were being flown out by charted or private jets by order of the administration because of their safety. This was no secret---it was national news!!!!!!!! I could even describe to you today one Dody Fiad look-alike carrying his briefcase, etc.

[tlcandie]

47. Maybe that flight to Houston .. ended up in Austin at THE RANCH!

What better way to hide them than at *'s ranch?! Austin isn't that far...only a hop, skip and jump!

[scottxyz]

46. Ashcroft used the phone book to round up random Arabs

"In the hours and days immediately following attacks, Attorney General John Ashcroft . . . directed that FBI and INS agents question anyone they could find with a Muslim-sounding name . . . in some areas . . . they simply looked for names in the phone book. . . . ." - From Steve Brill's book "After", quoted by Nat Hentoff of the Village Voice:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0327/hentoff.php

So after Bin Laden blew up the World Trade Center, the Feds let his FAMILY MEMBERS get on a special flight out of the country, and then went and rounded up random people with "Muslim-sounding names" by using the PHONE BOOK.

Real smart. Even if Bin Laden's family members had nothing to do with the crime itself, standard law enforcement practice is to approach all witnesses who may have some information. And if they are considered "material witnesses," they may be detained for questioning.

This is just a further indication that the Feds had NO INTEREST in preventing this crime, or finding out who really did it.

[VolcanoJen]

49. Kick!

:dem:

[Q]

55. This stinks...

...and it proves that (most) of the American media are traitors to the American people.

- Jesus...how many smoking guns do we need before someone calls for an investigation into this most corrupt administration?