Russia Strikes 'Historic' Saudi Deal

[mhr]

Hi All,

It looks like Bush's good friend Putin may have the last laugh. It also looks like Bush won the battle but lost the war on middle east oil.

The following from the Moscow Times notes the signing of a historic cooperation agreement between Saudi Arabia and Russia. The two nations have agreed to greater mutual aid over the development of oil production and distribution.

Given that all Bush got was a quagmire over Iraqi oil, it is not hard to see that this new Saudi/Russian alliance could spell trouble in the future.
------
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/09/03/001.html

Global hydrocarbon giants Saudi Arabia and Russia on Tuesday agreed to work together to stabilize world crude markets and cooperate in each other's oil and gas industries.

"This day will go down in history as it opens a new era in Saudi-Russian relations," Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud told President Vladimir Putin and other top Russian officials during his three-day visit to Moscow, the first by a Saudi leader in more than 70 years.

The world's top two oil exporters "intend to strengthen bilateral cooperation aimed at the stabilization of world energy markets," according to the text of Tuesday's five-year intergovernmental agreement posted on the government's web site.

Snip......

[Nottingham]

1. Looks Like the Saudis are looking for Powerful friends

that don't include the Bush's :bounce:

[kskiska]

2. I guess those ranch visits

didn't do the trick with either of them.

[mhr]

4. It Had To Be The Bar BQ

I sure Putin must have thought "if this is the best he can serve something must be awfully wrong with America these days. Time to find allies with more money."

[saigon68]

7. ITS THE KALASHNIKOVS

I wonder how many of these beauties will be shipped to Saudi on the off chance, they will be distributed to friendly "Islamic" forces???

[NNN0LHI]

21. No.

Its the nuculear umbrella that Russia can provide that has driven the Saudis into their arms for protection. The Saudis are getting worried that they may be next in line for a regime change by Bush. With this Russia/Saudi alliance that becomes impossible.

Don

[Journeyman]

3. Well, I guess there was more to Putin's soul. . .

than the Boy Blunder could discern.

[Dover]

5. Hmmm...Russia went against OPEC last year, and remained independent

of OPEC's constraints and pricing. The U.S. was also courting Russian oil by ceremoniously accepting the first ship of oil from Russia into our ports (though Russia was not nearly ready to become a heavy duty exporter due to lack of infrastructure) and inviting them Russian oil reps to visit Houston (even gave them a tour of the oil reserves there). But the U.S. has routed Russia's efforts in Eastern Europe to become a major player through various means. So I wonder if by "cooperation" this article implies some sort of OPEC-type partnership or how this will play out.


"The minister spelled out that the initiative included joint exploration of gas deposits, making use of gas for desalinating sea water, the construction of gas pipelines, gas power stations and petrochemical industrial facilities. The total cost of the projects is estimated at $20m to $25m, Yusufov specified."

Notice that potable WATER is also on the agenda.

This article is the first I've seen that paints the Houston meeting as being a "failure".

Russia declares Saudi Arabia as major partner in Middle East

15-10-02 The Russian energy minister declared that Saudi Arabia is Russia’s major partner in the Middle East. It became known after the failure of the Russian-American summit in Houston that Russia need not wait for considerable investments from its foreign “partner.” However, Russia needs such investments like a fish needs water. It stands to reason that the Russian government now looks in the opposite direction, where it is more likely to obtain investments.
Saudi oil sheikhs have had their eyes on Russia for a long time already. In other words, Russia will be friends with the USA for free: The friendship against international terrorism. On the other hand, Russia will be friends with the "centre of international terrorism," Saudi Arabia, but for a price.

The first session of the Russian-Saudi committee for trading, economic, and scientific cooperation is taking place in Moscow. The session is chaired by Igor Yusufov, the Russian Minister for Energy, and by the Saudi Minister for Finances and National Economy, Ibrahim Abd al-Aziz al-Asaf. Igor Yusufov has recently assured Al-Asaf that Russia is not going to compete with Saudi Arabia for the American oil market. Mr Yusufov said the opposite thing in Houston, though.
Russia and Saudi Arabia are working on an agreement for the mutual protection of investments. Russia has a strong desire to deal with Saudi oil against the background of the debacle in the Iraqi oil business. Igor Yusufov even said that Saudi Arabia was Russia’s most important partner in the Middle East. Needless to mention that the Arabs do not care about the Russian oil. They are interested in something different....."
MORE -
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm24428.htm


And, at least according to Russia -

RUSSIA'S LATEST oil statistics confirm it has become the world's largest oil producer, pushing Saudi Arabia into second place by extracting some 7.28 million barrels per day (mbd) compared to the desert kingdom's 7.19 mbd. Currently producing at capacity, Russian oil companies want to invest to increase this to bring it close to Saudi Arabia's 10 mbd level when working at full capacity.
http://www.janes.com/regional_news/europe/news_briefs/fr020328_12.shtml

[emad]

6. Mad Vlad Putin and crude markets.........

....in snake oil? perhaps they need a new propellant for their high tech subs that keep sinking in the Barents Sea each time Uncle Volodya goes on vacation. Watch this Poot - he's been up Bandar's ass since Gulf I. His sole raison d'etre is to makeover Yeltsin's image and repackage the Andropov years. Bush 1 and John Major both gave him a reference to spruce up his cv. His record as KGB chief makes Dubya seem like an Einstein of political philosophy.

[Capt_Nemo]

10. Sorry, emad, but you seem to be somewhat lacking

in knowledge of geopolitics and military afairs.
Are you sure you can tell the Barents Sea from the Aral Sea?

on edit:
let's get some things straight:

1. Putin "raison d'être" seems to be to reverse the legacy of Yeltsin
and his caving in to the US. Furthermore he's looking for a strategic
partner to form an alternative pole for US influence. He seems to
prefer the EU but for practical reasons he might have to settle with
China.

2. The "submarine" that sunk last week was a decomissioned hull
(14 years ago!) that hadn't been scrapped yet due to lack of money.
To portray this as a repeat of the Kursk tragedy (a fully operational
modern sub, fully crewed and armed) is plainly wrong.

[emad]

13. Thanks, Nemo! Don't think this forum is the right place to

elucidate on my documented knowledge of geopolitics and military affairs.
I repeat my assessment of Putin: he's no more than a snake oil salesman who's been up Bandar's ass for the last 12 years. Anyone who believes your 1) above also believes in Father Christmas and the Star Ship Enterprise. 2) Losing one submarine while on holiday is unfortunate, losing another while on a subsequent holiday is doubly unfortunate. I make no comment on either sub's seaworthiness,( or any reference to classified material detailing just how many subs Yeltsin lost in the early 1990s, and why, that is not yet in the public domain).
Getting steamed up about my posting says more about your agenda than it does about mine.

[Capt_Nemo]

14. well, underestimate Vlad at your own peril...

that hubristic attitude is playing well right about now in Iraq.
Hope you are enjoying it! :evilgrin:
With Russia it guarantees a lot more fun!!! :evilgrin::evilgrin:

[emad]

16. Check out Octafish's "Bush Crime Family SOP - use a Patsy"

in General Discussion. Putin's credentials are well documented in the material I refer to in my post regarding what is actually being done in the UK before the courts. Putin, Yeltsin, Gorbachev, et al are all included in the data referred to, and make as interesting reading as Shrubco. Their covert operatives are also listed, dating back to the late 1950s, their payments systems, offshore ban accounts and money laundering scams.

[Capt_Nemo]

17. Putin answers only to himself

and his peculiar vision of "Russia's national interests".
Like the PNACers he's playing real world "Command & Conquer" and,
since he is addicted to power, he knows well that he'll get much
more of it as his own boss, rather than as a vassal.
All his actions since he got into power point that way.

[emad]

18. Not if you compare his DNA to the material that's referred to

in the post. He's just a family member who was busted but allowed to make a pitch for the top. Guess how many of his Presidential Edicts have been actually enforced since he came into office? Less than 10%. He looks so confident, he's had to gag the press and media, even tried to ban a Harry Potter film because a little imp in it looks like his twin brother. And his no.1 UK stooge, Roman Abramovich, actually thinks he's now the poud owner of Chelsea Football Club. (Probably never heard of the concept of being corralled into his own septic tank.....) Thank goodness possession is 9/10th of the law.

[Capt_Nemo]

20. well... whatever...

let's just agree to disagree.

[Dover]

22. Saudi Princes very interested in Russian weapons/defense industry

...The basic goal of the committee is to determine the priority directions of cooperation. Igor Yusofov stated that Russia is interested in investment capital from Saudi Arabia. Usufov is certain that Russia has something to offer Saudi Arabia. This is Russian technologies in gas and oil extraction, the aluminium industry, and the defence industry. It goes without sayingthat the Saudi princes are extremely interested in the latter.
The Saudi government has the intention to pay Russia $ 4 bn for the development of an ABM system of the fifth generation. Arabs are interested in other Russian weapons as well: Anything that can be used against the Americans when they land their troops on the Arabian Peninsula.

It was said during the session that the volume of the mutual trade between the two countries made up $ 67 mm in the year 2001. This index gained $ 10 mm against the previous year. Yet, the commodity circulation reached $ 50 mm over the first six months of the current year.
Our friendship is growing before our own eyes. You can imagine how the commodity circulation will grow when the Russian weapons start flowing to Saudi Arabia. What if the USA starts bombing Russia like it did to Yugoslavia? What if?

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm24428.htm

[schultzee]

8. Bu$h has made a mess for the next, hopefully 2004 president to clean up

and its a daunting task.

[screembloodymurder]

12. Worst president in history

Looks like the drunk attacked the wrong country. Maybe that's why we're getting the UN involved. We need our troops to attack the Saudis.

[Dover]

9. NYT article

September 2, 2003
The New York Times

...Bolstered by rising prices, Russia is seeking to regain its spot as the world's largest oil producer by rebuilding an industry ravaged by communist rule. Saudi Arabia, now the top oil producer, wants stronger ties to ensure rising supplies do not cause prices to decline.

Mr. al-Naimi also met with Mr. Yusufov yesterday, the energy ministry said. The Saudi delegation will stay in Moscow through Thursday.

Saudi Arabia is also a member of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, which pumps a third of the world's oil; Russia is not part of the group.

OPEC will meet on Sept. 24 to review output quotas. In the past, Saudi Arabia has urged Russia to limit its oil exports to increase prices.

Russia increased oil production to 8.6 million barrels a day last month, up 11 percent from the same period of 2002, the energy ministry said. In July, Russia pumped 8.5 million barrels a day, compared with Saudi Arabia's 8.73 million barrels, according to Bloomberg estimates...>> MORE

http://www.rusnet.nl/news/2003/09/03/businesseconomics01.shtml

[Dover]

11. Russia Might Raise oil Export Tariffs (article Sept. 3)

Russia might raise oil export tariffs

September 3, 2003
RBC

On Tuesday, the Government Commission for Protective Measures in Foreign Trade and Customs and Tariff Policy is scheduled to consider the possibility of raising oil export tariffs from $25.1 to $33.8 per ton starting on October 1, 2003, a source in the Finance Ministry told RBC.

According to the source, the increase is due to a rise in oil prices. Indeed, the average price of Urals oil on the international market was $27.84 per barrel in July-August 2003, against $24.86 per barrel in May-June.

Export tariffs on oil products might be raised from $22.6 to $30.4 per ton (90 percent of the oil tariff). A decree on raising oil tariffs could be signed and published by September 20, 2003, the official added....>

http://www.rusnet.nl/news/2003/09/03/businesseconomics03.shtml

Also this article:

...Their oil ministers also signed their first formal market agreement, pledging to co-ordinate supply and closely monitor world prices. Both states are heavily dependent on oil with Russia's economic recovery since its 1998 economic crisis largely due to soaring output and the high price of crude oil.

Also agreed in Moscow was the creation of the first Russo-Saudi consortium in which Russia's leading gas pipeline builder and leading Saudi construction companies will join efforts to develop Saudi gas fields.

..snip..

The BBC's Steven Eke reports from Moscow that Russian diplomats may be expecting a clarification of Riyadh's stance on Chechnya.

Russia has long suspected Saudi financiers of backing separatist rebels in its mainly Muslim Chechen region.
Russia, our correspondent reports, believes it can benefit from the cooling of Saudi Arabia's relationship with Washington in the aftermath of the 11 September terror attacks.

Billions of dollars of Saudi money have been pulled out of the United States and Russia wants to offer itself as an attractive new destination...>>


http://www.rusnet.nl/news/2003/09/03/politics01.shtml

[NNN0LHI]

15. Another interesting thread on this subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=94033

[kentuck]

19. It's about geo-politics...

If Russia can "influence" Saudi petroleum supply, alongside China's new demands, it could put tremendous pleasure on the US to find the replacement supplies. That is why Iraq is more important than ever. Not only do we have to occupy and take over the oil wells in Iraq, now we have to defend them...