Calls for Bush and His Senior Staff To Be Held Accountable

[WhiteTara]

Mods: Sorry the title was too long for the subject line and I had to edit.
Fmr. NY Congressmember Holtzman Calls For President Bush and His Senior Staff To Be Held Accountable for Abu Ghraib Torture

This is probably the most important piece of information that we could be receiving in a long long time. Wish I knew how to make the little flame come out the the headline. THis is from today's Democracy Now! show and this is the transcript of the interview

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/30/1333214

snip
(Liz Holtzman)
And it seems to me that with the terrible scandal, Abu Ghraib, that we need -- we can’t, as they tried in Watergate to do, cut off the investigation at the small fry, at the lowest level. You have to look, and the international law precedence and American law requires it, you look up the chain of command. What I discovered by accident was that -- this is not a concern that I have alone -- President Bush's White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, himself, who is now the Attorney General of the United States, wrote a memo in January 2002 to President Bush saying one of the reasons we need to opt out of the Geneva Conventions wasn't just because they didn't like the Geneva Conventions because they don't like treaties, but he said, we have to worry about prosecutions under the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996. That, it turns out, is a federal statute that applies to any U.S. national, military or civilian, high or low, who violates the Geneva Conventions in certain ways. In other words, who engages in murder, torture, or inhuman treatment. And it's not just those who engage in it, it's those who order it or those who, knowing about it, fail to take steps to stop it. That means higher-ups

snip

ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN: What happened was in the 1990s, during the, I guess it was the Clinton administration at that time, Congress decided that it wanted to adopt laws to take it into full compliance with its obligations under an international torture statute and an international torture treaty and the Geneva Conventions. And so, it passed two laws. One is a statute making it a U.S. crime to engage in torture. It was passed two years before the 1996 law, and then you have the War Crimes Act of 1996.

And basically, what it does, it makes grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions a federal crime. Got it? Just like kidnapping or interstate burglary or child pornography, it is a federal crime. And the other thing, that's interesting is that it carries the death penalty. If death results from torture or inhuman treatment, then there is a death penalty, and that means there's no statute of limitations. That means that if any high level official violates the War Crimes Act, and somebody died, they can be prosecuted. They are subject to prosecution for the rest of their lives.

I hope this information gets a broad hearing. Review democracynow.org for today's show and read the upcoming issue of the Nation. PLease spread the word far and wide. THESE TRAITORS AND TORTURERS ARE SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES AND THE PENALTY IS DEATH!!!
:bounce:

:bounce: :wow:

[fooj]

1. Just a little reminder...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. — Thomas Jefferson, American Declaration of Independence


WE KNOW WHAT TO DO!

peace.

[TrogL]

2. Where is this memo?

President Bush's White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, himself, who is now the Attorney General of the United States, wrote a memo in January 2002 to President Bush saying one of the reasons we need to opt out of the Geneva Conventions wasn't just because they didn't like the Geneva Conventions because they don't like treaties, but he said, we have to worry about prosecutions under the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996

This is an even bigger smoking gun than DSM.

[WhiteTara]

4. Don't you remember the memo

that asscrap refused to give to the senate? That memo. THe Albert Gonzales memo.

[mom cat]

15. It's sure in the top 20 reasons for impeachment!

[Zodiak]

3. Who will prosecute, convict, research evidence?

Yeah, I agree that this administration has violated so many American laws that they could easily be prosecuted and sent to Levinworth. There are only two barriers: Republican-controlled everything that can write any law, choose not to enforce any law, or over-rule any law and the power of any President to seal all records and classify any documents. It has been used before.

And I, unfortunately, do not believe in the use of the death penalty. I agree that if anyone deserves it, it is scum like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz, Powell (yeah, you heard me), Gonzales, Ashcroft, Rice, Perle, Delay, etc. etc., but I still think life in prison would be the most civilized thing to do. I do, howver, believe in "unusual" punishment like trotting them out to be hit with tomatoes every 9/11, but that is another matter altogether.

[WhiteTara]

6. I believe that traitors should die

in front of firing squad on the white house lawn.

as for who is working on this. Here is the bio for Holtzman

Elizabeth Holtzman, She served for eight years as a U.S. Congresswoman and won national attention for her role on the House Judiciary committee during Watergate. She was subsequently elected District Attorney of Kings County, the only woman ever elected DA in NYC, serving for eight years. Liz was also the only woman ever elected Comptroller of New York City. Liz was appointed, by President Clinton, to the Nazi and Japanese War Criminal Records Interagency Working Group, which is overseeing the declassification of the U.S. government's secret Nazi war crimes files.

We will win. "A hated government can last long" Seneca

[Zodiak]

8. Thanks

"Liz was appointed, by President Clinton, to the Nazi and Japanese War Criminal Records Interagency Working Group, which is overseeing the declassification of the U.S. government's secret Nazi war crimes files."

Thanks for the info. I took this snippet out of your post to highlight exactly how long it is that the US keeps its dirty little secrets from its people while claiming to be an open, transparent democracy. How long will we keep Bush's secrets? Will they even be alive when we have all the evidence we need to prosecute? Will WE be alive?

[WhiteTara]

10. we are not going to let his dirty secrets

fester! I think that the difference was that communications were much slower and that with the internet this will not stop. We may not have the WP, but we do have each other and this can not be stopped!

[Dover]

5. Thanks for the info. Very serious. But a question.....

Who prosecutes, in what court, and who carries out the punishment for their crimes?

From what I've seen, if the U.S. decides they are immune from international laws (even those they've agreed to) then WHO is going to MAKE them?

[WhiteTara]

7. This is a US law

put in place by the repukes themselves in their rush to "get Clenis" in 1996. Not all on the other side of the aisle are just like *co, and just as in Watergate, they will step on the side of truth. The entire crew will go down.

In a small aside, how does one make the little flames come out the news bar?

[sojourner]

22. I think it occurs automatically as enough people

contribute to the discussion - within a certain time period (and this is a total guess, based on watching what happened in my one and only thread, that of course started with NO flames and then gradually built up in responses and then suddenly "caught fire" with people commenting left and right. And the flames appeared. Not exactly sure what the exact parameters are, however.)

[havocmom]

11. Might make for interesting view of upcoming international events

like G8 and stuff. Maybe the world community will put the snatch on them?

[redacted]

16. See the section titled "Options for Congressional Action" at page 5

of the article:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050718&c=5&s=holtzman

Keep in mind also that the U.S. opted-out of it's previous ratification of the Geneva Conventions with respect to Afghanistan. Our nation did NOT opt-out of Geneva with respect to Iraq.

Ms. Holtzman notes at page 2:

". . .the War Crimes Act is unquestionably applicable to detainee abuse in Iraq. Under Gonzales's logic, the War Crimes Act applies whenever Geneva applies. And as President Bush repeatedly stated, the Geneva Conventions apply to Iraq (although he has since claimed that foreign fighters captured in Iraq are not covered by Geneva). Thus, US personnel found guilty of serious mistreatment of detainees in Iraq face severe criminal penalties under the Act."

[ixion]

9. This entire maladmin is guilty of this and so much more

and they should defintely face justice in the Hague.

[jimshoes]

12. We have the most

calculating group of reprobates the world has ever seen in the bush* administration. If the facts don't fit, fix them. If the laws stand in our way, change them. All the sordid facts about this unholy bunch are coming out now and it won't be soon enough.

[Jack Rabbit]

13. Thread on Ms. Holtzman's piece in The Nation

Pleas click here.

[yurbud]

14. I'm going to post it where righties can see it.

on Coulter board.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Nothing Without Hope]

17. This is good to see at last. Recommended.

...and :kick:

[halobeam]

18. How slow can a downward spiral go?

Painstakingly slow. It's like the first day you quit smoking, the day seems like a year. The next seems like 364 days and 23hour and 59 minutes, so on and so forth. And sometimes, you fall and have to start all over again. The second first day, seems like a year. The following day seems like 364 days and 23 hours and 59 minutes, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and then oops... slip up again. The third first day, seems like a year. The day after that seems like 364 days and 23 hours and 59 minutes, and so it goes, the pattern of a nightmare, at the same time of hope of the future, then WHAM... begin again. But you see, I'm just typing now, so I don't REALLY have to keep doing this, and I like that choice because I will just "stop" the madness. If only we had such control over the bigger things.


Their day will come. I look forward and am hopeful I'll be here to see it. I'm happy for anyone who will witness the end of their administrative madness. Talk about evil. My god.

[redacted]

19. KICK. Important article.

[Karenina]

20. Kick!

:kick:

[GetTheRightVote]

21. This is the type of punishment only a free nation can give & it is time

to free ourselves of these traitors in the * admin and impeach them.

:kick:

[sojourner]

23. Good post. Thanks!

Kick!