Jesus and public prayer: My response to a local conservative

[usregimechange]

Chris Vaughan (Globe, Aug. 9th) disagreed with my conclusion that Jesus spoke against public prayer and advocated private prayer. The two examples of Jesus praying in public that he cited (Luke 9:16 and John 11:41-42) are not referred to as prayer by their biblical authors. Are they blessings, miracles, or thanks to God rather than prayer? I am not sure.

When the biblical authors did say Jesus was “praying” he not only prayed in non-public places but went out of his way to do so. He “went out to the mountain to pray” (Luke 6:12). Jesus would “withdraw to deserted places and pray” (Luke 5:16). "And after he had dismissed the crowds, he went up the mountain by himself to pray" (Matthew 19:13). He told his disciples “when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your father who is in secret” (Matthew 6:6). What purpose is there to go to mountains, deserts, and behind closed doors to pray? It isn’t for exercise and photosensitivity.

[madeline_con]

1. In Luke 6:12, he went to the mountain...

John 11 sounds like thanks.

"What purpose is there to go to mountains, deserts, and behind closed doors to pray? It isn’t for exercise and photosensitivity."

I think it's to commune with God, and an audience is superfluous.

Elsewhere, the Bible says not to go around praying and making a big deal in public, that it's only for show, and not sincere if one does that. :)

[usregimechange]

2. Me thinks so too.

[geckosfeet]

3. Some people wear their dogma on their sleeve. nt

[democrat_patriot]

4. Excellent.

Does the Bible ever mention the church having Cardinals and Bishops and such? I was wondering because that's why I don't go to church, I don't like the "Romanizing" of it.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

5. I have reached the point where it's time to fight back

Even Jesus had his breaking point at the temple. We are told to be slow to anger and to pray privately by Jesus Christ himself. These so called Christians don't follow HIS TEACHINGS.

I hate bumper stickers, never put one on my car. I lied, I put the Triple A years ago, one time. I have recently been trying to come up with bumper stickers that don't publicly endorse Christianity (so I am not a hypocrite like the RW's), but get the message across. I plan to load my car up, ouch, that is gonna hurt!

[Ian David]

6. By their Bumper Stickers Shall Ye Know Them

For some ideas, try looking here:

http://www.evolvefish.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/landoverbaptist

http://www.misspoppy.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/trackemdown

http://www.cafepress.com/theafterlife/464220

http://www.boffensive.com/offensive_tshirts/religion.htm

[Dervill Crow]

9. I have "Who Would Jesus Bomb?" on my car and my DU bumpersticker.

I wish I had thought to put the WWJB on the right-hand side of the bumper, because I'm sure some assholes probably think DU is the answer to the question. Oh well; live and learn.

[AlabamaYankee]

10. I have two on my car

Blessed are the Peacemakers

WWOZ New Orleans Jazz Community Radio

[Igel]

7. Bishops and deacons, but they were rather different

in their duties then. No large organization, mostly local control, with wandering evangelists that supervised areas they evangelized. Deacons did grunt work to free up the time of the men who preached. Prophets and speakers in tongues get put in there, but only if they could translate what they said for everybody's edification. But this is after Jesus' death a ways, mostly from Paul. And deacons were a late addition in the game, when the ministers started getting run ragged.

Cardinals are a much later add-on.

[Igel]

8. Yes and no.

At the last supper, Jesus obviously prayed. Giving thanks is a form of prayer, no less than making the request for which thanks is given. And if the Temple was the "house of prayer", or should have been a house of prayer, it's unlikely that Jesus was saying it was actually to be a honeycomb of little rooms for each person's privacy.

We could say those things aren't really 'public'--in a room in the inn, in the temple, in front of a congregation (of sorts), each defining a sort of community. I don't know if there was a tradition of silent prayer at the time, or how loud Jesus was on each occasion.

But most of the examples of condemnation include "for show", "to be heard", "about himself": a Pharisee or Sadduccee that prayed to be seen, who prayed for show, who said "I'm glad I'm better than others." Even the so-called lord's prayer was, in one place, given in that context. As with many other things, 'what' is less important than 'why': you get the 'why' right, the 'what' usually follows.

And how would proclaiming greater righteousness because one prays only in private, not like those ... those ... fundies! ... fit into this kind of reasoning?

Public prayer, per se, wasn't banned, or we have to exempt public giving of thanks from prayer and requests on behalf of a collective. Private prayer--just like private charity, fasting, and worship--was strongly encouraged. But you know when the Jesus-approved tithes were turned in, it was unlikely to be surreptitious, and that it wasn't fairly evident on Yom Kippur that his disciples were fasting.

[usregimechange]

11. I looked at the last supper, can't find it. In John?

[Igel]

13. My Bible knowledge is rusty.

Actually had to search for a bit, and started to wonder if the ol' memory was shot. Well, it is, but ... oh, never mind.

www.biblegateway.com is handy.

Anyway, try John 17. Last supper extends for a ways before, but John 17 is the bit I had in mind. (I can still remember the minister at passover--essentially communion--reading this every year in a really, really sanctimonious, almost oily, way.)

[usregimechange]

12. Check out this article:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/prayer.htm