Howard Zinn article in UK guardian re; Occupation of US

[jarnocan]

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1547587,00.html>

It is not only Iraq that is occupied.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/s...1547587,00.html
"...something is terribly wrong. More and more every day the lies are being exposed "

[jarnocan]

1. I woke up feeling uneasy

even before I began looking/listening about new 911 tapes. I just read that Pear Harbor book. I feel in many ways that there is a lot of positve nergy building and so of course I have a feeling of impending doom.
I am very worried.
There seems to be an increasing amount of internet chat and some of the edgier web sites and blogs concerning the Iran war plans, proportedly already drawn up and ready to implement immediately, in the case of another large scale terrorist attack in the US.
Many feel another attack may be welcomed by the neocons, to zap the anti-war movement, and growing disatisfaction with the BushInc.. There is also specialtion that this could involved nuclear weapons. Some also are concerned about a nuclear terrorism drill soon to take place.
There are some people that the recent disicplinary action against the 4 star general on frivolous chages apparently, may have been trumped up because of his opposition to neocon ideals and plans.
We are living in dangerous times. The BushInc. are using the fear of impending dangers to their advantage. However in my sincere opinion- they ARE the greatest danger to our democracy, our freedom, our environment and our world.
We have a right and need for the truth to come out concerning the war, the election FRAUD and 911! I do fear desperate and despicable men, may take drastic action, but beleive we must not let our fear paralyze US.
Please do what you can, and tell everyone you can what they need to know.

[Judi Lynn]

5. I believe it would be uncharacteristing of these people

NOT to do something godawful before the 2006 elections, to turn sympathy in their direction.

They are utterly without conscience. They are imposters.

[0007]

2. Howard Zinn is a real American.

His books should be required reading for all High School students.

[sunwyn]

3. I have the same feeling as you...

though, uneasy seems a mild term. Surely our government is feeling the heat. So many people are fed up. Any why is no one talking about the PNAC? The plans that they are implementing have been planned for many years.

[jarnocan]

4. PNAC and CNP...

reconstructionist and neocons , when we use these terms on OLS the folks on the right do NOT even acknowledge them. They act as if they are just some liberal lingo we use to promote our lies.
When we discuss the actual agendas from their own writings they do not believe us at all. they won't even read the links I am pretty sure. I usually do look at theirs at least briefly- you know freeper. newsmax NYPOST, loonytoon times and all the other spew on cue crew :puke: They really make me ill, you can just tell by looking at the ads on some of their links. (although our liberal sites have sometimes pretty cool and funny ones:)

[NJCher]

6. this is such an excellent piece

I wish it were in the pages of every newspaper in the world. I wish everyone could know that we are in the grip of criminals.


Cher

[Rhiannon12866]

7. I agree. It's one of the best I have ever read on the subject.

Howard Zinn is a brilliant man and an excellent writer. However, it's really telling us something when his incredible article appears in the foreign press...:-(

[alarcojon]

10. Yeah, he's like Chomsky that way

I hope both of them continue to tell the truth for years to come. But Zinn is 82 and Chomsky 76. We will lose these great minds before we know it.

[Rhiannon12866]

11. Wow! Is he really that old?! Sorry, but I have seen him interviewed and I

would never have guessed. I guess it's a good sign that he's aged gracefully!:-)

And I agree about them telling the truth. But I just wish that this article had appeared in the NY Times or The Washington Post. I often think to look at the foreign press, and received this particular article in Information Clearing House, but much of the American public would never think of getting their news from other sources than their local newspaper or cable news.:-(

But thanks for reminding me... I sent this exceptional one to a couple of friends, and got great feedback! However, I can think of a few others who shouldn't miss this!:D

[vickitulsa]

12. Yes, it should be picked up by other news sources

and spread far and wide. I wouldn't give up hope that this might happen -- and if not with this particular article, certainly some others with similar views to offer ARE being passed along to the public.

I noticed this: "A version of this article appears in the August issue of Le Monde diplomatique's English language edition Mondediplo.com," so I clicked my way there to read it, and I STRONGLY recommend others do the same!

http://mondediplo.com/2005/08/04iraq

This is evidently the *first* version of Zinn's article, and what The Guardian pared out of it for their version is significant IMO. While you will read some parts verbatim from the Guardian article, you'll quickly notice important additional backup and background info.

I have to wonder WHY The Guardian edited out these parts. It could be simply for space considerations, but it might also be because they wanted to water down Zinn's piece just a little bit. This version of his article is even more powerful than the one in The Guardian!

Here is the last paragraph as it appears in Mondediplo:

"The power of government, whatever weapons it possesses, whatever money it has at its disposal, is fragile. When it loses its legitimacy in the eyes of its people, its days are numbered. We need to engage in whatever actions appeal to us. There is no act too small, no act too bold. The history of social change is the history of millions of actions, small and large, coming together at points in history and creating a power that governments cannot suppress."

I was going to forward The Guardian article to others I know who will also share it as widely as they can; but now I'm going to cite the Mondediplo version.

And regarding the damage toll on our troops from this war and occupation in Iraq, the extent of which Zinn aludes to but does not detail, PLEASE read this article posted to my Vietnam veterans and supporters group Sanctuary (this one is for ladies only, so it includes a lot of nurses who served incountry).

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?Page=Article&ID=4424

This is a powerful and well-documented piece, and it provides a LOT of detailed info about this "fast-breaking" and developing angle of the Iraq War story and its impact upon our troops everyone seems to claim to support....

[Rhiannon12866]

14. Thank you so much for the eye-opening information, vickitulsa !

And welcome to DU!!! It's great to have such an informed DUer with us!:toast:

When I pass this article on to others, I would certainly like to have the complete piece! I had no idea, which just goes to show how much, even those of us who are looking for the truth, are missing! Perhaps I should also point this out to Information Clearing House, where I first read The Guardian version... Yikes!:-(

And also thank you for the additional article. I haven't read it yet, but, if it's as powerful as you say, do you think it might deserve its own thread?:shrug:

[vickitulsa]

16. Oh yes, I certainly do think the other article deserves its own

thread. I just haven't learned how to start one yet, so I hope you or someone else will go ahead with that if you like. Right now my vet friends are sharing information on how to avoid having their income and their lives negatively impacted in a big way by the attempts of this administration to cut off payments to veterans who have been injured while serving our country.

My Vietnam vet pals have had to fight this battle for many years, and it's a terrible shame on our government and specifically the VA that they put these vets through the wringer just to qualify to get minimal life-sustaining compensation when they were badly wounded and emotionally damaged in that war. Then once they are approved for PTSD or other service-related injury and illness compensation, they sometimes have to fight to keep it, also ... just like the VA is trying to do now to the younger vets.

My daughter's bio-dad was in 13 helicopter crashes during his tour of duty in Nam, and he was hit by an AK-47 round as well as exposed to Agent Orange as were so many of our troops in that war. He has spinal injuries and other medical problems that continue to worsen and disable him further now that he has hit 60 years of age. He has literally died three times while in the care of VA doctors, but each time they were able to zap him back to life. The third time that happened, it was the doctors performing a surgical procedure on him that caused him to flatline!

Joe's experiences with the VA system are typical of most of my Namvet friends as well as the many Gulf War vets I know, and it's fortunate that Joe is articulate and was able to write one helluva description of the "stressors" he experienced in Vietnam to convince the VA board that he had legitimate causes for his service-connected PTSD! That letter is a powerful document that has been shared around the Internet quite a bit, in fact.

And can you imagine just how difficult it is for combat vets to have to write out in great detail the descriptions of the traumatic events that have caused them to have nightmares, flashbacks, hypervigilance, rage, and other symptoms? The assessment process for PTSD within the VA is a nightmare in itself. For those who cannot adequately write out their experiences, they are required to be confined for three weeks to a VA hospital unit where they are repeatedly pressured to participate in group therapy sessions and seldom receive one-on-one therapy with a shrink. They are pushed to remember all the terror and the sights and sounds they witnessed in combat, including seeing their friends die. One vet friend of mine was dropped into a combat zone with his company when he'd been incountry for only two weeks, and his unit was hit by friendly fire -- napalm -- and Rick ended up running up a little hill to avoid being caught in the fire that ensued. He looked back and saw dozens of his friends running toward him ... on fire. He couldn't even remember this incident for over 20 years, but while confined at a VA hospital in Seattle, he was forced to recall and detail the experience.

So this is the sort of thing our government is putting our veterans through in order for them to qualify to receive adequate sustenance funds as well as reasonable medical care after they return from war!

I predicted when Bush sent our troops first to Afghanistan and then to Iraq that we were going to have many thousands of troops returning home with horrible amputation injuries and PTSD problems, and that they would NOT receive the medical and psychological care they needed and deserved. Those IED's guarantee that most who serve in Iraq will develop PTSD simply because of the nature of the devices, how they explode without warning, and the level of damage they do to our troops who are not adequately protected. Prime ingredients for trauma that produces PTSD symptoms down the road.

I'm so concerned about all the troops who are serving right now! And I know many of them. They are all "ours," our own sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. How they are treated after they have sacrificed so much will reveal just how much our government and our society really supports and values them.

And thanks for responding, Rhiannon. I was hoping someone would still be reading this thread!

Vicki

[Rhiannon12866]

18. Wow. I'll post this article if you want me to, Vicki, but it's not hard...

And you have more than enough posts to do it. All you do is to choose the right forum, hit "post" at the top of your screen, and fill in the blanks. For Editorials, you'd want to choose the "article" option. Then paste the title in the subject line, the first few (I think the limit is three or four, but this depends on length and what makes sense) paragraphs, so the reader will get an understanding of what it's about, and last, the link. Always hit "preview" to see what your post will look like, that it looks like it's meant to, and check to make sure that the link works. Then hit "post." I'll walk you through it if you ever want me to.:-)

As for this article, I'm surprised that I hadn't seen it, since I also subscribe to Veterans for Common Sense, have for a long time. I subscribe to way too much, but they're a favorite of mine. What they have to say always makes a great deal of sense, plus they have credibility because they are actually comprised of veterans.:-)

I don't know a lot of vets, as you do, but I sure respect their courage and their sacrifice. One of my oldest friends is a West Point graduate and career army. His father is also West Point and served in Vietnam. And I often forward articles that I find here to him. We've gone round and round on the Iraq war since before it even started, he, at first, agreeing with me, then taking the stand that, as long as we're there, "we have to finish it," but, given the unexpected resistance and duration that our military have experienced there, he's coming around to my way of thinking, yet again.:shrug:

And one disagreement that we've had is what you mention, health care and compensation. I forwarded him an article that documented cases of our injured reservists and guard having to wait months for treatment, unlike our active duty troops. He took issue with this, saying that this had been resolved. The other issue that bothered me greatly was the proposed reduction in compensation, eliminating hazard pay and separation compensation. From my perspective, what we're asking of these brave souls is so dangerous and so completely above and beyond what they signed on for, especially the Reserve and National Guard, that they deserve only the best and no compensation is enough for what is being asked of them.:-(

I am so sorry to hear about the horrific experiences of your Vietnam vet friends. I knew it was bad, but not this bad. I did know that vet benefits were being cut, and there is no excuse for this. If you ask anyone to put their life on the line, they deserve to be taken care of by the government who sent them into harm's way, justified or not. It's all the same.:-(

And I completely agree with your last paragraph. I think I'm going to send this thread to my friend. He knows many who are still on active duty, as well, and is no longer satisfied with the way they are being treated. And they wonder why recruitment is way down. My friend agreed that they may have to reinstitute the draft, especially if the Iraq war continues to rage on, and he suggested that this may be sooner, rather than later. We can no longer depend on those for whom the military is their only employment option to fight this war.:-(

And, of course, we're still reading this thread. Thanks for all you've contributed to it! The complete version of the great Howard Zinn article appeared in yesterday's installment of Information Clearing House, thanks to you. And we've all gained an insight into what's really going on in our military, besides. Thanks!:-)

Rhiannon:hi:

[vickitulsa]

17. Oh, and please let me add

that there was another thread called Coming Home here at DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=147062

where an excellent article about an Iraq War veteran was posted a couple of days ago. It is so worth reading, and surprisingly to me had only two replies, one of them mine. It got two votes for greatest though!

I hope you will check out this thread and that article, too, Rhiannon -- and anyone who cares about this issue, the war in Iraq, and our troops.

THANKS!
:thumbsup: :hug: :patriot:

[Rhiannon12866]

19. Thanks so much for the heads-up on this!

It was a very powerful testimony. I gave it a kick, but was sorry to be too late to give it a third nomination. But I'll be sure to pass it on...:patriot:

Thanks for all you've contributed in your time on DU and welcome, yet again! What did we ever do without you?! LOL! We sure can use more DUers like you!:D

Rhiannon:pals:

[alarcojon]

13. Zinn spoke at my school a couple of years back

and you could tell he was aging.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. The last time I saw him was a few months back on "The Daily Show."

He came off as somewhat eccentric, but brilliant minds often do, and I don't think his age has affected his intellect. However, I respect your first-person observation. How fortunate you were to actually have the opportunity to hear him speak in person!:D

[teryang]

8. "It is a war on the people of the US"

<The "war on terrorism" is not only a war on innocent people in other countries; it is a war on the people of the US: on our liberties, on our standard of living. The country's wealth is being stolen from the people and handed over to the super-rich. The lives of the young are being stolen.>

We are being crushed in the crony capitalist free for all.

[struggle4progress]

9. Really good writing. Too bad it's all true. eom