Rove Behavior - Could it be Bush's Watergate? Houston Chron, Repub OpEd

[TacticalPeek]

Aug. 20, 2005, 7:23PM

ROVE BEHAVIOR

Could it be Bush's Watergate?
Adviser shows his Nixonian roots

By THOMAS PAUKEN

snip

If special prosecutor Fitzgerald is going down this road, certain prominent figures could be indicted for obstruction of justice and/or for lying about classified national-security matters to Congress and the American people. Perhaps that is why leading neoconservative spokesman Bill Kristol said that Fitzgerald "is the problem for the White House; we have no idea what he knows ... "

The worst possible scenario for the administration would be if it turns out that the Niger documents in question (which all now agree were forged) were fabricated by individuals who may have had a motive for getting us into the war. Shadowy figures previously linked to the Iran-Contra scandal have been mentioned as possible originators of the forged documents.

If there is any truth to these charges, the lid will blow off Washington — and the Bush administration will be history.

snip

The usual sycophants are beating the drums in defense of Karl Rove, trying to make the case that conservatives have a stake in keeping Rove in power. But the party line may not save Rove's job this time. In his eagerness to hunt down a perceived enemy, Karl Rove stumbled into a national-security briar patch that may bring the entire neocon cabal down with him.

Pauken is a former Reagan official who served as a military-intelligence officer in Vietnam. He also was chairman of the Republican Party of Texas from 1994 to 1997. This article first appeared in the September 2005 issue of Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3318170


My, my - are we getting close to party time? :evilgrin:

[opihimoimoi]

1. As with Nixon, it is the COVERUP that will do them in....the deciet/etc

[fishwax]

41. that always seems to be the clincher

once the coverups start they never seem to know when to stop digging ...

[blm]

2. Everything evil about BushInc is rooted in IranContra and BCCI and any

journalist who really cares about this nation and its citizens would connect all these dots publicly for the American people, and connect them all the way to 9-11 and our current military policy for the entire Iraq region.

[garthranzz]

43. Speaking of BCCI - Do you know who blew the cover off it?

John Kerry

:woohoo:

[blm]

47. heheh....yeah...seems Ito me, I've heard that a few times here at DU.

Right, gang?

[WiseButAngrySara]

48. Do you happen to have any DU links to the Iran/Contra BCCI debacle?

Maybe I can do a DU search, but not sure because of low post numbers..

[blm]

53. Search on Octafish - he's our resident thread collector on BCCI

and IranContra.

[WiseButAngrySara]

54. Thanks! I remember his name; know I've read some of his posts...n/t

[JDPriestly]

3. Keep your perspective.

Rove is just one reason to want to oust Bush. There are a dozen other ones. Don't put all your eggs in the Rove basket. The big issue is grand-scale corruption that reaches the top of the government. The Rove story is just one manifestation of it. Halliburton is another one. Torture is another. DSMs are yet another. The Patriot Act is also one. And then there are the Medicare prescription drug story, the hiring of the poorly qualified children of Supreme Court members to high posts in the Bush administration, election irregularities in Florida and Ohio, the Delay/Abramoff mess, the fact that the people who decided we should go into Iraq have not sent their children and grandchildren to fight the war and on and on and on. Let's paint the big picture and call it corruption.

[aquart]

4. Yes. Don't let them paint Rove as one rotten apple.

They'll try that when things get too hot. The whole barrel was rotten from the getgo. They got into office with the INTENTION of looting this nation and stripping us bare. Every piece of legislation they have enacted has worked to this end.

[Imagevision]

22. r-i-g-h-t - then we'll see Cheney resign for medical reasons!

[Peace Patriot]

32. "...election irregularities in Florida and Ohio...". How about the

election "irregularity" that major Bush donors and campaign chairs, and billionaire rightwing fanatics, tabulated all the votes in the 2004 election using SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code?

Are our Dem Party leaders INSANE? That's what I thought for a while. But now I realize that it was just plain old venal corruption. WHY do we have traitors in the White House? WHY do we have a war that 58% of the American people opposed, way back BEFORE the invasion, in Feb. '03? WHY do we have the designer of the Bush torture policy, Alberto Gonzales, as chief law enforcement officer of the U.S. of A., when 63% of the American people oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (May '04)? HOW did we end up with a fascist junta running our country right off a cliff?

Not to downplay the responsibility of the slaughterers of tens of thousands of Iraqis, it is the Bush Cartel doing these deeds, but they did have some help, as to remaining in power, from corrupt Dem election officials and political representatives who are in bed with the electronic voting machine companies, and are benefiting from the billion dollar boondoggle that our election system has become. They sold out our right to vote...for a future job offer, or for the heady power of brokering what are now big business deals (elections), or for the lavish lobbying junkets, such as just occurred at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood--a week of fun, sun and high-end shopping for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia!

Check it out!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

It's enough to make you vomit.

--------

Note: I've been a loyal Democratic Party voter and supporter for 40 years, so I've earned some Brownie points as to speaking my mind about the TOTAL RATS at the top of our party who let Bushites get control of the vote tabulation. Terry Macauliffe, Donna Brazile, Christopher Dodd, Connie ("bulldoze Kevin Shelley's office") McCormack (head of Los Angeles elections--total rat), Cathy "Diebold" Cox (Georgia), to name some. We need a BIG BROOM. The Republicans are not the only ones who need their house cleaned.

[mom cat]

39. Thanks for keeping the election fraud front and center... as well as the

rats in our own party whogave the nod and the wink!

[fishwax]

42. corruption is woven throughout the administration

you're absolutely right. It's the big picture, the overarching theme ...

[Cha]

5. "My, my - are we getting close to party time?"

This is one of the most well written indictments of the roverbushwa that I have seen.

I'm Flabbergasted that it comes from a republican and such an entrenched one.

[Infomaniac]

6. Good Gravy! I certainly hope it's Shrub's Watergate.

He is certainly well overdue for getting hit head-on by the Karma bus.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Oh, I liked the way that came together:

"and the Bush administration will be history."

"snip"

[jbfam4]

8. Thanks for posting

This is a great article...nominated

[babylonsister]

9. Nom. with hopefulness in my heart! And from

the Chronicle no less!B-)

[Cassandra]

10. Hmmmmmm.......

" chairman of the Republican Party of Texas from 1994 to 1997"
a little personal animus, perhaps?

[Uncle Joe]

11. This just shows you how out of touch with reality Kristol is,

Fitzgerald is not a problem for the White House, on the contrary he is a solution for the White House and a problem for the neocon thugs that came to power via a coup and committed treason against the United States of America!

[indepat]

12. Wow! When a Repug insider talks about the entire neocon cabal being

brought down, this is heady stuff.

[FormerRepublican]

13. The most important part of this story is this:

"The worst possible scenario for the administration would be if it turns out that the Niger documents in question (which all now agree were forged) were fabricated by individuals who may have had a motive for getting us into the war. Shadowy figures previously linked to the Iran-Contra scandal have been mentioned as possible originators of the forged documents."

If this turns out to be true, then those involved with this conspiracy will be looking at the death penalty. If the Plame leak is a convenient vehicle to use to bring that about, then I expect it will be used liberally. I suspect that any attemped pardons by Bush in that instance would either be overturned or ignored. Someone who commits treason can't be allowed to pardon another traitor.

I am TOTALLY blown away by the fact that this article was written by a staunch Republican. IMO, it's an indicator that indictments are forthcoming and all the spin in the world isn't going to save the Bush Administration. Watergate will look like an unimportant event in political history in comparison.

[Cassandra]

15. I'm wondering if he's indicating...

that he knows those shadowy figures. He probably has some thoughts on who they are.

[TacticalPeek]

16. I think the 'Iran-contra' bit is a strong hint toward Michael Ledeen.

From Wikipedia:

In 2005, Vincent Cannistraro, former head of counterterrorism operations at the CIA and the intelligence director at the National Security Council under Ronald Reagan, implicated Michael Ledeen as the possible source of the forged memo that claimed that Iraq had sought to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger.<2>

In an interview on July 26, 2005, Cannistraro's business partner and columnist for the American Conservative magazine, former CIA counter terrorism officer Philip Giraldi, confirmed to Scott Horton that the forgeries were produced by "a couple of former CIA officers who are familiar with that part of the world who are associated with a certain well-known neoconservative who has close connections with Italy." When Horton said that must be Ledeen, he confirmed it, and added that the ex-CIA officers, "also had some equity interests, shall we say, with the operation. A lot of these people are in consulting positions, and they get various, shall we say, emoluments in overseas accounts, and that kind of thing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen

[Cassandra]

18. Wasn't one of his children...

one of the Heritage Foundation wannabees who oversaw the distribution of funds in Iraq, of which 8.8 billion dollars are now missing?
Emoluments, indeed.

[ray of light]

25. iran-contra--isn't Robert's notes from Iran contra now missing?

[deacon2]

14. Houston Chronicle re-printing this is very important

Even some of the true believers in Bushland are beginning to see that they've been suckered along with the rest of us. Their reasons may be different - after all, this is NO traditional conservative administration by any stretch - but in the end it will have the same effect. Through manipulation, lies and obvious treason the Bushistas have gutted the national treasury and squandered the lives of young Americans in an incompetent, amoral and completely pre-meditated attempt at imperialism in the Middle East. It doesn't fit on a bumper sticker too well, but it tears at the soul of our country nonetheless.

[Imagevision]

23. Interesting concept to getting out of Iraq?!! it wasn't us it was the

other guys, plus didn't you all say Bush was bad from the get-go!

[TacticalPeek]

17. Y'all put a couple more noms on this to get it out there.

Dept of Shameless Promo

[ginnyinWI]

19. I sincerely hope all of you are right--that this thing will stick

I continue to hope for it--even though we've been disappointed over and over, because the other side has so much power.

[tblue37]

40. LOL!

TacticalPeek wrote: "Y'all put a couple more noms on this to get it out there."

At first I read your post as saying we needed to put a couple more moms on it to get it out there. In other words, it seemed that you were saying we have to count on the moms (like Cindy) to get essential information out there.

[WiseButAngrySara]

49. How hysterical! I did exactly the same thing...mom vs nom...

Will kick and Mominate!

[dchill]

20. Yup. Exactly.

At least now some on the Right can see it. I do believe that indictments are coming down...

[BigBearJohn]

21. +Recommended+

[Imagevision]

24. Cindy Shehan couldn't be happening in a better time-frame!

[skip fox]

26. Rove is just the tip of the iceburg, but if he goes the country might turn

and become more critically objective about following the Republican party. Here's why I think Rove and a few other of his ilk will g be indicted.

Rove may receive at least 2 indictments, in fact, and others will receive at least one apiece. The numbers of leakers (original sources) and officials needed for confirmation of the story MILITATES planning. We know that there were 6 reported contacts or original sources (John Dean says 6; we know of three: Rove, Libby, and Miller's source who will not specifically release her from her confidentiality agreement) and multiple (3-4) confirming sources, it becomes apparent what occurred. One administrative official discovered the Plame-Wilson-Niger relationship, took it to the White House Iraq Group, turned it over to Rove, who on the spot assigned tasks to different primary leakers/sources assuring no source called another source's contact (so as not to appear too eager), that no source's "pitch" was exactly the same but that their information was all given in an "off hand" manner (e.g., "Don't go too far out on this Wilson thing, I don't want you burnt").

To have 6 calls from 3 leakers is an indication of a coordinated endeavor. If there were the 6 leakers as Dean claims would make the case even more damning. But also consider the planning necessary to have enough confirming sources. Unsure of who the reporters may call to confirm, someone would have to make sure at least 2 other officials were ready and willing to confirm if called.

Therefore a master-mind would have been necessary to coordinate all these calls and confirmations (as many as 11 as was storied last week).

They would have gone to Rove immediately and he, probably in an emergency of the White House Iraq Group, assigned the roles, the stories and the stances, etc.

So he not only leaked by was the mastermind of a conspiracy to leak.

We can only hope he lead a cover-up and committed perjury as well.

[WiseButAngrySara]

51. Is there a list somewhere of all known indictments?..n/t

[depakid]

27. Yet another dumbass "commentator" who doesn't know the law

"The obstacle to getting a conviction against Rove for leaking her identity to reporters is that he would have had to have known that she was an undercover operative and also known that it was against the law to reveal her identity.

It is doubtful that Rove had such knowledge. This is not (as it was with Agee) a situation where you have a disgruntled activist exposing our spies in order to disrupt CIA covert operations and put the life of an agent at risk.

This was simply Karl Rove doing what he does best — employing a scorched-earth policy against anyone whom he views as an enemy of the Bush administration."

This is a load of utterly ignorant horseshit- from an equally ignorant (or just downright dishonest) Texas Republican swallowing and spouting the "party line."

It has no basis in legal reality..

None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nothing.

See, e.g.

How to prosecute the Plame case by Elizabeth de la Vega, a retire federal prosecutor.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0812-22.htm

[ray of light]

28. yes, thanks

I was about to post that too.

They are focusing on the "intent" aspect, but clearly the judge in this case found the argument that they intened to "harm Plame" not the intent of the law.

[Peace Patriot]

35. depakid, why do you think "it is doubtful that Rove had such...

...knowldege"? The Plame memo was circulated on AF-1. It seems likely that Rove was directed to use that information. As I recall, several reporters said they got it from Rove. The fact that they tried to launder Plame's identity won't likely work with a prosecutor like Fitzgerald. And can you imagine the White House Chief of Staff claiming ignorance of the need to keep covert agents' identities secret? Ignorance is generally no protection against the law--and with such a highly placed WH administrator, I don't see how that could wash with any prosecutor, judge or jury. Do you think Rove was lied to or played? What is your theory? Why do you say this has no "legal reality"? And, how do we know for sure who did what, until the Fitzgerald/Grand Jury report comes out?

Are you thinking Rove was set up--to be the patsy? As cover for...Libby? Cheney? Is that what you mean by "the party line?" Please explain.

[Peace Patriot]

36. Note: I was thinking more about the line...

"In his eagerness to hunt down a perceived enemy, Karl Rove stumbled into a national-security briar patch...".

That is a crock. Rovian revenge is quite clearly a cover story--something people will find believable (given his reputation), that points away from the higher perps. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Rove is not guilty of treason (aiding the enemy in a time of war), or of knowingly disclosing a covert agent's identity (the fed statute protecting agents).

[depakid]

44. Oh, Rove had knowledge

and it's preyty clear to me (even though it obviously isn't to most of the so called pundits on oth the right and the left) that Rove's behavior satifies the element of criminal intent and that he can and should be prosecuted.

[ray of light]

29. This author is further lying

He said, 'To his credit, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft recused himself from the case, and his deputy selected U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald from Chicago to be the special prosecutor."

Ummm...call me stupid...BUT didn't Ashcroft give them PRIOR notice (sufficient time to HIDE the evidence.) (looking for link)

[tinrobot]

30. Bush has never completed a job

He couldn't finish his TANG responsibility.

He drove several oil exploration companiesn into the ground.

Practically destroyed the Rangers by trading Sammy Sosa.

Left his governorship early.

I see no reason why he will finish this job, either. My bets are that he will be forced out or resign before the term is over.

[Son of California]

31. This is the sound of the Republican party splitting in two

on one side the real Republicans:
technically our adversaries -and devil's advocates against our ideology -but who doesn't need a good, honest devil's advocate from time to time?
capable of intelligent compromise, they disagree with us a lot, but honestly search for the best solution to our countries problems..

and the NEOCON/PNAC/BUSHIES:
the nut cases, the radical Christians and Zionists, the warmongers, the corporate whores. The people who could give a fuck about this country as long as they are raking in that all mighty dollar and/or enforcing their weird personal doctrine on everyone else.

Should we be reaching out to the Real Republicans? Should we be saying, "Hey, tough break that your party got taken over by a bunch of out-of-touch weirdos, why don't you come hang with us for an election or two until you have time to clean house over in your own party? We promise not to get all radical on you, if you promise the same. We can both make a few consessions to each other (but there will always be certain core issues on which we cannot budge), let's just do whats right for the country and get the crazies out of power."

would this be a winning angle in 06? and even maybe in 08?

[rosesaylavee]

45. Exactly - we need to reach out to the real Republicans

and expand the breach. Also, if you have ever been on the wrong side of an argument, you may have an appreciation as to how a little face-saving would help to unite our country against these nuts.

A healthy two-party system is good - what we have now is three parties with the Republicans split between neocons and the old-school. Loyal but old-time Republicans are squirming in their seats about what is going on in their name. Was raised in a very right-wing Republican family and remained one until 15 years ago - can imagine what I would be feeling right now if I was still in that camp.

[lebkuchen]

33. Kristol: We have no idea what he (Fitzgerald) knows

which indicates to me that there is a lot to know!

[Peace Patriot]

34. "If there is any truth to these charges, the lid will blow off Washington"

Here's another lid that might have blown off in Washington, back in 2003...

First consider this time-line:

July 14, 2003: Plame outed (by Novak).

July 18, 2003: David Kelly, Brits chief WMD expert (who started whistleblowing to the BBC on the Brits' "sexed up" Iraq intel docs in May 2003, after the invasion) found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers searched.

July 22, 2003: Second Plame outing (also by Novak)--of the entire CIA front company (Brewster Jennings), disabling all of its WMD monitoring projects and putting all covert agents at great risk.

-----

I think the key date was July 7, 2003, a week before the Plame outing, when Tony Blair was informed that David Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things." (Hutton report.) COULD say. Not HAD said. And I suspect that what Kelly knew and "could say" was that the Bush Cartel had tried to PLANT nukes or other WMDs in Iraq, for the enormous political gain to Bush/Blair. If this had been exposed in summer 2003, it likely would have brought down both governments.

I suspect that the plot involving Kelly (what he had found out) and the long term plot to "get" the CIA (via the Niger forgeries) intersected on that date, July 7, with a phone call from Blair to Bush, prompting the Bush regime to conduct a foolish, precipitous, overly-rushed outing of Plame and BJ, in which they contacted at least SIX reporters and involved numerous top Bushites, putting them all at maximum risk of treason charges, with imperfectly conceived and coordinated cover stories. In other words, they were panicked at what Plame and BJ could find out, already knew, or had participated in (the FOILING of their scheme to PLANT WMDs in Iraq). That's what their actions in the week of July 7-14 feel like--not political revenge (there is evidence that they expected the Wilson article), nor a well thought out scheme to disable the CIA's weapons and other monitoring capability (probably long planned by Cheney), but rather panic at something UNEXPECTED.

Whatever the truth of this matter, the coincidence of dates of the Plame outing and Kelly's highly suspicious death is too much to ignore. It may be the key to the whole affair. (There are also intriguing Judith Miller components to both events.)

[Burried News]

37. I wonder if we have a Peak Judy factor operating here?

Judy Judy Judy WhatsaMata Hari it looks like we are rapidly approaching game time and your Holdout may not holdup. If they go without you, what have you got to sell?

What's that you say? Bolton promised you a lifetime appointment to
Niger? Are you sure you are going to be happy there?
Well at least the weather there is cooler than Baghdad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day_f.shtml?world=1429
Hi 91 Low 75

Hmmm maybe things are looking up for you. And you could always work part time at the local Kinkos - that could help any future documentation requests that come in. And it would put you right at the heart of the yellowcake so next time we could definitely do better with the Intel.

You know Judy, I AM going to miss you.
By the way how's the Chow tonight - Chile again. Well enjoy the finger food doll.

[Tigress DEM]

38. Problem is they moved out Fitzgerald's boss and that leaves...

the Assistant Attourney General in charge because Gonzales had to recuze himself. That man is in Bush's pocket somehow. Read that awhile ago here on DU. Don't remember all the details.

I think the only way we can party is if we keep pushing the publicity so that this plant can't fix this problem without creating more.

[rosesaylavee]

46. Be cautious about getting excited

about all this. Patrick Fitzgerald is appointed and serves at the president's pleasure. Unlike Ken Starr - he does not have special prosecutor status and could be replaced. I think the neocons were floating rumors last month about his staff and it seemed to me they were trying to find a chink in his armor. AND, remember his tenure is due to be renewed in October. AND his boss was just replaced this week by a Bushie appointee.

Not wanting to be a wet blanket - but he may not be around to pull the trigger on this.

[WiseButAngrySara]

50. This is excellent! OpEd by a Republican in the Houston Chronicle!!

Would LOVE to see the expression of Barbara's face as she reads this. Kicked and recommended!

[tom_paine]

52. Only Free Nations have the ability to police their Leaders

THAT is the only question yet remaining. Is America still free? Does it have even one tiny shred of what the Greatest Generation fought for and what, a mere 60 years later, The Worst Generation throws away with the garbage?

[Roland99]

55. So, this guy (former head of TX GOP) is obviously not a true Republican

He hates our freedom.