Who is winning the war in Iraq? (U.S. forces say body counts prove success

[Roland99]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9395462/

BAGHDAD - Using enemy body counts as a benchmark, the U.S. military claimed gains against Abu Musab Zarqawi's foreign-led fighters last week even as they mounted their deadliest attacks on Iraq's capital.

But by many standards, including increasingly high death tolls in insurgent strikes, Zarqawi's group, al Qaeda in Iraq, could claim to be the side that's gaining after 2 1/2 years of war. August was the third-deadliest month of the war for U.S. troops.

Zarqawi's guerrillas this spring and summer showed themselves to be capable of mounting waves of suicide bombings and car bombings that could kill scores at a time and paralyze the Iraqi capital. Insurgents have also launched dozens of attacks every day in other parts of Iraq and laid open claim this summer to cities and towns in the critical far west, despite hit-and-run offensives by U.S. forces.

Last week, Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, declared "great successes" against insurgents. But Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, where Lynch briefed reporters, was under stepped-up security screening and U.S. guard for fear of suicide bombings. Insurgents for three days running last week managed to lob mortar rounds into the Green Zone, the heart of the U.S. and Iraqi administration.

Great success? Umm...WTF?!?!


And I thought the US didn't "do body counts"? Are they flip-flopping on *that*, too? Appears to be they are but only in a way that would be politicall beneficial (in some fvcked-up ideological way)


Saturday, May 3, 2003
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/03/MN98747.DTL

"We don't do body counts," Gen. Tommy Franks, who directed the Iraq invasion, has said.

[Massachusetts]

1. "U.S. forces say body counts prove success"

"For its one, two, three, what are we fightin for
I don't know and I don't give a damn...."

[Lilith Velkor]

7. especially when civilians are counted as insurgents

"...next thing, we nuke Iran!
Ans it's five, six, seven, open up the Pearly Gates..."

:nuke:

[hobbit709]

2. I remember body counts

from Viet Nam. We killed 125% of them.

[tocqueville]

3. yep same in Vietnam

5 millions Viets, 50 000 GIs... Who won ?

[BSDRebel]

4. Isn't that what they said in Vietnam?

Newsflash. We killed 3,000,000 Vietnamese. They killed 55,000 Americans.

THEY WON.

Body counts mean don't mean jack squat if the enemy can prevent you from realizing your political goals of controlling the politics of the country.

Any questions?

[raccoon]

8. Good point. Welcome to DU. nt

[BSDRebel]

10. thanks

:)

[Village Idiot]

5. Still winning Iraqi hearts and minds, I see...

[Stockholm]

6. Well from that perspective they are right

The US have killed more Iraqis than the Insurgents.

But hey the civil war is just starting, give it some time. :puke:

[Briar]

9. That must be why they are so reckless around civilians

more bodies to count!

[Martin Eden]

11. The Futility of Success

The longer the list grows of "success" stories like Fallujah and Tal Afar, the more obvious becomes the futility of adding to that list.

We have the power to cordon off a neighborhood, evacuate the women & children, and then destroy that neighborhood and those who remain.

We DON'T have the power to win hearts and minds by such tactics, or to stem the tide of insurgent fighters these tactics recruit.

The neocons have such close ties to Israel, they must have seen the horror and madness of getting dragged into an endless viscious cycle of violence.

And yet, they eagerly dragged our country into it anyway -- and proclaim it a success.