There is No Iraq (Cenk Uygur)

[phantom power]

Whether people want to leave or stay, the assumption is that they have what is best for Iraq in mind.

But there is no Iraq.

Now, the question isn’t whether our troops stay or withdraw. Neither action would help towards a long term solution because we are headed the wrong way. If we stayed a thousand years, we couldn’t keep Iraq together. If we left now, there would be instant, horrific bloodshed. Neither accomplishes anything.

What we should be doing is working towards a realistic goal – a relatively peaceful transition towards three different countries in the area. We might not be able to keep these people together but we could probably help them to separate.

Let’s start fighting a fight we can win. Let’s create countries that people care about and are willing to protect not only through violence, but also through peace. The Sunnis might not care about keeping Basra or Mosul safe because they are Shiite and Kurdish towns, but they will care about bringing peace to Ramadi and Tikrit once they have ownership of them. Let’s give them a reason to care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/there-is-no-iraq_b_8118.html

[Teaser]

1. Why 3 countries won't work either...

The Sunni "country" don't have no oil. Just acres and acres of sand.

I have said it many times, and I'll say it again. We have created the worst case scenario in Iraq.

[BlueJac]

4. you are so right..........and a bunch of wrongs will not help!

[BlueJac]

2. Three countries not popular in the region or with Bush

Turkey hates that idea....Sunni land would have no resourses...the wars will go on to the end of time....like in the past. Not that bad an idea though.

[phantom power]

5. Still a long-shot...

But it's an interesting idea. Maybe the odds are 100-to-1 against, but the odds against a unified Iraq are more like (10^1000)-to-1.

I agree that the most likely outcome, no matter what we do, is continuing sectarian wars. Maybe one sect will destroy the others, and leave something like Iran in it's wake. That would require genocide, but the winner might be left with a stable country by default.

[Ediacara]

9. The Sunni area isn't completely resource free

But would definately have a lot less oil than the other two "countries." The big road block for this to happen however is Turkey. Turkey would not be down with an independent Kurdistan, and come to think of it neither would Iran. The Iranian and Turkish Kurds would insist that large chunks of those two countries be included in Kurdistan.

[VWolf]

3. I'm beginning to agree with this philosophy

Three different countries wouldn't be ideal (compared to a unified Iraq, which is a pipe dream), but at least their respective sovereignty may provide a small degree of stability.

[tech3149]

8. Welcome to DU VWolf

I'm no Middle Eastern historian, but Iraq was a fabricated state. The only way it survived in that fashion was with a strong authoritarian leader. The only two choices I see are a return to that authoritarian state (only a benevolent secular dictatorship), or a negotiated separation that would be acceptable to all factions. I've listened to the Young Turks quite a bit and I think Cenks ME heritage provides a good understanding of the way things would play out.

[damntexdem]

6. No, let's withdraw and ...

let them create the countries that they can. We could warn the Turks not to invade Kurdistan. We could aid the Shia so they might be less allied to Iran. We could even aid the Sunnis, so they don't all die of starvation, without oil revenues. A little foreign aid would be better than billions of dollars each month spent to buy more deaths of U.S. troops.

[DinahMoeHum]

7. If we leave, we're fucked. If we stay, we're fucked.

Sorry, but there's no nice way to say it.

:evilfrown:

[BlueJac]

10. Well if Iraqi's were discussing this on a web site about us........

I don't know how I'd feel........I would probably be fighting with freepers

[bemildred]

11. A position worth considering. This is not a dumb guy.

We are seeing the dissolution of imperial arrangements made
100 years ago and more.

But this comes way behind getting the foreign troops out of
the country. Get the occupying troops out, then you can consider
who needs protection from their neighbors, and start to get
things settled down again.

[cassiepriam]

12. We have completely destroyed a county.

And killed, tortured, raped innocent men, women and children.
Created a civil war that will finish the country off. It is hard to imagine that such evil exists, but that it is my own country haunts me.

[Spoonerian]

13. Well said.

And you've got to wonder at the impudence and the arrogance of 'mericans who say they're worried about what might happen in Iraq if they pack up and go back home and confine their killing, raping, and torturing to the boundaries of the U.S.

[cassiepriam]

14. Yes, ironic isn't it. nt

[Maat]

15. Cenk's a lawyer.

He actually served as a prosecutor for awhile.

I discussed it in an email with him once.

He IS a smart guy.