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Abortion, Terri Schiavo, and Compassion

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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 03:15 PM
Original message
Abortion, Terri Schiavo, and Compassion
(Note: I am starting toward the end of the essay and leaving out a lot of preliminary stuff; to read the whole thing, click here.)

The arguments of the anti-choice people have nothing to do with compassion and nothing, really, to do with life. The more rabid "right to life" people would cheerfully sacrifice the lives of women to prevent abortions. And has been pointed out many times, often these same people are pro-death penalty (there are exceptions) and the nuttier among them advocate the murder of abortion providers.

If you peel back the top surface layer of the abortion argument, you'd see that we're not arguing about saving babies. We're arguing about controlling women.

(examples and some other stuff snipped)

But we can go further. We can peel back the layer of fear and loathing of women to reveal something even more primitive, and this takes us back to Terri Schiavo.

... What is "life" versus "a life"? Cells cultured in a petrie dish might be "life," but not "a life." Terri Schiavo has life, but without a brain cortex, does she have "a life"? Or is the body identified as Terri Schiavo now just a jumbled assemblage of neurons and protoplasm, and no more an individual than the petrie dish "life"?

The brain science guys say that consciousness (or self-awareness, or sentience, or whatever you want to call it) does not reside in any particular place in the brain. Rather, as best I understand it, consciousness is a by-product of brain activity. Brain waves and firing neurons form a sort of matrix of "I."

This is a difficult thing to grasp. We all want to believe that "I" am a tangible thing, hence a persistent belief in souls. It's a scary thought to think that "I" might be just some electrochemical by-product. And perhaps people who are genuinely terrified of such things are the same people who want to believe Terri Schiavo can still have "a life," or that a blastocyst must be preserved at all costs. But let's face facts.

Until we can let go of our fears of annihilation and sex and Other, we are not free to be compassionate. We're just marching around with self-protective agendas and ideologies. But once we get real, we can see that body without a brain is not "a life" and should be allowed a peaceful death. And we can see that forcing a very young woman to give birth to a doomed baby is cruel and bestial.

Of course, the Buddha explained the same thing 25 centuries ago. So I'm not holding my breath.

But if what I'm saying makes any sense to you at all, please consider ways in which we can take claims of compassion away from the ideologues and frame the public discourse so that it reflects scientific fact, and not fear.



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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. This part here is flat out false
If you aren't familiar with anencephaly -- in normal embryonic development, at about the 4th week of pregnancy a neural tube folds and closes to form the brain and spinal cord of the embryo. If this tube remains open, the brain does not develop. The infant will be born without a cerebrum or cerebellum -- in other words, born without most of its brain. The infant has no hope of survival or even consciousness, and will die within a few hours of birth.


While I agree that in most cases anencephalic infants do die they don't always and some do learn to do rudimentary things. Yes it is exceedingly rare for that to happen but it does on occasion happen. I have met one my self and my dad has worked with some.

I also take strong exception to the idea that if one mistrusts the motives of the husband in this case they are somehow just pro life zealots. I don't believe this woman ever said what he claims she did. I just dont' It makes no earthly sense that she tells him this but not her parents. They were married for a very short time.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. really? anencephaly is extremely rare, yet you and your father
are both acquainted with some? your dad works with some? given the statements below, please explain how this is possible?




What is Anencephaly?
Anencephaly is a defect in the closure of the neural tube during fetal development. The neural tube is a narrow channel that folds and closes between the 3rd and 4th weeks of pregnancy to form the brain and spinal cord of the embryo. Anencephaly occurs when the "cephalic" or head end of the neural tube fails to close, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain (the front part of the brain) and a cerebrum (the thinking and coordinating part of the brain). The remaining brain tissue is often exposed--not covered by bone or skin. A baby born with anencephaly is usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brain stem, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur.


http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/anencephaly_doc.htm
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. just because you don't believe a woman might tell her husband something
she wouldn't tell her parents does not mean such a thing has not happened.

nice try, though
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Really?
I'm curious how you and Dad met dead babies?

"Two major neural birth defects are spina bifida and anencephaly. Infants born with spina bifida, which affects one in every 1,000 babies born in the United States, have a defect in the spine that can result in various forms of disability. Babies with anencephaly do not develop a brain and die shortly after birth. "

http://www.myhealthybaby.com/nutrition.htm
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. don't forget the "and worked with some" part
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I suspect he means "Hydroencephaly"...
I believe they can lead somewhat normal lives (?)
I ain't no MD, so I'll defer to those that know.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, that's what I was thinking.
I couldn't remember the name of it, except that it involved water. Yes, I'll bet he's met people who were born with hydroencephaly. That's entirely possible.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. rather negates his whole point when he doesn't even know
what the heck he is talking about.. hard to take anything seriously at that point
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It partly exemplifies my point, though

Some people have almost a desperate need to deny there can be situations in which abortion is the most compassionate alternative. Anti-choice people will point to individuals who are handicapped and say, see? Their lives aren't so bad.

But if an infant is "normal" enough to survive, even if handicapped, that individual is lucky compared to some babies. You can talk to people until you are purple, and they will not understand that the really terrible birth anomalies are left behind in the hospital, and only the hospital staff and (maybe) the parents see them.

My mother was an obstetrics nurse for years and year, and then taught nursing for a while, so I had an unusual exposure to medical literature. Some kids learned about life from National Geographic. I looked at pictures in obstetrics and nursing magazines and textbooks. So maybe it's easier for me to grasp how really devastating some defects are, and that the compromised babies who grow up with a handicap are the easy cases, not the hard ones. The public doesn't see the hard ones.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think you're confusing anencephaly with something else.
"While I agree that in most cases anencephalic infants do die they don't always and some do learn to do rudimentary things. Yes it is exceedingly rare for that to happen but it does on occasion happen. I have met one my self and my dad has worked with some."

The medical literature says there is no hope for these infants; they live only a few hours. Here's a page of links to information on anencephaly from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/anencephaly_doc.htm#

There is currently a sort of movement that encourages women to carry anencephalic infants to term so that their organs can be harvested.

There are other neural tube disorders, plus other kinds of brain disorders, some of which may have similar names.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-03 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. see post 7 n/t
.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-03 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was going to wait...
'Till this dropped to page 2, but I'm outta here for the weekend...
So, here it goes!
KICK
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-03 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Responsibly compassionate
My sister used to have a boyfriend who beat the crap out of her. His whole family was pretty messed up. When she got pregnant, she had an abortion. Let's see, was that more compassionate and responsible than creating a situation where a man who she knew for a fact was abusive would have a legal right to spend time with a child???? I definitely think so!
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