"Why Republicans Lie"

[DemForLife]

This article hits the nail on the head.  I am from a small
rural city in Ohio.  The Democrat running for Mayor has served
in that very office previously, and did a great job.  He left
in the middle of his last term to fill a vacancy in the Ohio
House.  He appointed his successor, the woman who was
president of council at the time.  Well, she was re-elected to
a second term and is finishing that term.  She lost in the
primary to the man who appointed her.  Because of Republican
redistricting in our area, he lost his seat in the House.  We
practically begged him to run for mayor again.  The woman has
had a questionable reign for our city and we were sure to be
beaten by the Republican opponent had she been the nominee
this time.  Anyway, the Republican opponent is up to dirty
tricks as usual.  She collected money locally for our National
Guard Unit that was being deployed to Iraq a few months ago. 
They took a photo of her presenting the check to the Veteran's
organiztion here in my town.  To make a long story short, she
is exploiting this photo op for her own personal political
gain.  She printed up brochures and sent them to numerous
households in our city making it appear as if the veteran's
organization supports her candidcy.  This couldn't be farther
from the truth.  Our local paper has refused to print the
democratic party's version of the truth concerning this
blantant political trick.  So now we are getting donations to
place an ad in the paper refuting this horrible message that
the Republicans are trying to send to voters.  Her opponent is
a decorated Viet Nam vet.  The only way Republicans can win is
through trickery, distortion, charachter assasignation, etc. 
They certainly can't win on their own issues and merits.  This
is exactly why they lie.  They would wind up extinct as a
political party otherwise.  Okay, I'm done with my rant!

[opihimoimoi]

1. They Lie Cheat Steal to win. Sad but evident., Not all, but far too many

:shrug:

[XNASA]

2. Welcome to DU, DFL.

Great rant!

But you should have posted this in GD.

To post in EOA, you must provide a link to the published article.

[Atman]

3. Al said...

I think it was Gore, anyway...

"If you stop telling lies about the democrats, we'll stop telling the truth about the republicans."

[meow2u3]

10. Al Gore wasn't the one who said that

"If you stop telling lies about the democrats, we'll stop telling the truth about the republicans."

It was Adlai Stevenson. It was true in the 1950's, and it still holds true.

[freesqueeze]

12. Sam Rayburn, Late US Speaker of the House from Texas

"If you stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about you."

[Jackpine Radical]

15. That goes back at least as far as Adlai Stevenson.

.

[Vitruvius]

29. Lots of Dems, including Gore, have used the line since Adlai --

and Adlai had no problem with this when he was alive... (Anything that stuck a witty little pin into a self-righteous Rethug windbag was fine by Adlai, and he was delighted when others re-used his best lines to stick the Rethugs again. And again. And again..)

The problem right now, tho', is that too many Dems are too damned polite to tell the awful truth about the Rethugs, while the Rethugs have no problem whatsoever telling the most repulsive lies about Dems.

It's long past time to out the Rethugs for the crooks, thieves & liars they are. Civility is wasted on Rethugs and other criminals.

Why do Rethugs lie? Because that is what career criminals do.

[Lindacooks]

4. Agreed

LOVE the article. I think that something even worse than their constant lies is that they KNOW they are on the wrong side and their policies hurt people, but they couch their policies in terms that make it seem like they're on the right side.

For instance, in Minnesota the repukes passed 'A Woman's Right to Know' that basically put another barrier in between women and their right to safe abortions - a waiting period, after being bombarded with right wing moral majority crap. And they call it that disgusting title, when the purpose of the law is the exact opposite.

That's what really makes me nuts.

[theivoryqueen]

5. New favorite joke

I am new at joke writing but I think it's funny.

How can you tell when a Republican is lying??

He's talking.

[jokerman93]

8. hehe

yeah you can tell Bush is lying because his lips are moving! Someone said that in another thread.

Good one!

[forgethell]

6. It's not like

Democrats don't do exactly the same thing. They're POLITCIANS for God's sake. They all do this kind of PR. There may be many legitimate reasons to vote against this person, besides the fact that she's a Republican, of course, but the way you describe it, this isn't it.

[Lindacooks]

9. No, they don't

Repukes have the worst stance on every single issue. They KNOW people would object if they understood that fact. Therefore, repukes put misleading and untruthful titles on their policies. Here's a VERY small sample.

"Woman's Right to Know"

What it really means:

Making women wait to get an abortion, meanwhile forcing information on them about fetal viability and adoption.

"Clear Skies"

What it really means:

Letting power plants and industry pollute more by relaxing clean air standards.

"Healthy Forest Initiative"

What it really means:

Allowing clearcutting of forests to pay back the logging industries.

Why don't you try to find some examples like this from Democrats and post it? I'm very interested to see if you could.

[forgethell]

11. What! and get myself banned?

I think not. But, as a example of Democrats lying, what about all the waffling going on about the votes that several presidential candidates are doing over their votes for the Iraqi war resolution?

President Bush, moran that he may be, out-slicked them by having the vote before the election. So they voted for it. Now they come up with reasons about that they msiunderstood what they were voting for, etc. Nonsense. They sensed a political wind and trimmed their sails appropriately. Now, I'm not trying to say that their current position is wrond; I agree with it. But men of priciple would have voted their conscience and taken their chances. these guys are politicians. I don't hold that against them, because I'm cynical enough to believe that wwewon't get better. But let's not lie to ourselves about what's going on.

[Lindacooks]

14. Didn't think you could

n/t

[forgethell]

16. Nonsense, examples to follow

I gave you a perfectly good example of Democratic lying. What is your problem?? These guys are politicians. I am not disagreeing with their ideas, necessarily, butwith the fact that they WILL lie to get elected. what do you expect??

BUT, what you have given are examples of bumper sticker slogans. By their very nature, they are incomplete, unnuanced and unspohisticated. Ours are too. Also, you are making an assumption as to their actual meaning. but this is not in evidence. You are imputing evil motives to them, and saying: this is what they mean.

But, if they don't think they mean that, then how are they lying? They think WE have the worst stance on every single issue. So what we have here is a difference of opinion between us and them. Now, we may be right, I think we are, but they don't think so.

Republicans and conservatives play these games, too. You asked for examples. On the very clear and distinct understanding that I am NOT endorsing, affirming, or agreeing with the following explanations to the policy titles that I list, (are you listening Mods?)let me give you the Repuke translations. I have seen all these on various boards on which I lurk, and in various opinion pieces.

Pro-choice - as long as the only choice is abortion with no other options presented.

Tax the rich - and anybody over $40,000 per year

Affirmative action - racism, pure and simple, but hypocritical

judicially out of the mainstream - doesn't believe in judicial legislation

Bush stole the election - Bush kept Gore from stealing the election

reparations - another extortion scheme by the race-baiters

There were no WMDs - so it's wrong to liberate 25 million people from the worst monster since Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc.

You see how it works? It is just as legitimate a tactic for them to use as for us to use.

And what bothers me about such discourse is, this is not thinking, this is emotion. If we want to beat Bush* in 2004, we have to use our brains. He has a lot of advantages: more money, no rivals to tear him down in the primaries with statements that will come back to haunt his party, the bully pulpit of the Presidency, and regardless of his own intellectual competence, he has a crack team of political operatives.

OK. But to get back to the original question, I am not disagreeing that Republicans lie, they do. I'm just saying that so do Democratic politicians. And they do it to get elected. They wouldn't be successful politicians without it. Why are you surprised??

[Memekiller]

17. Don't forget...

...being a Republican and posing as a Democrat -- that's a lie too!

[forgethell]

18. Again, nonsense

I just dislike sloppy thinking.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[forgethell]

20. Read the thread again

the original post mentioned a republican posing with troops as a "lie". It is not. then another poster gave me an example of Republican "lies" where she imputed evil motives to the Republicans, and said that these were lies. OK, I just showed that this works both ways. I specifically did not agree with the sentiments expressed, nevertheless, I have seen them elsewhere. So this makes me a Freeper troll, does it? Beleive me here, Republicans actually do believe the things that I said. I was just demonstrating the fact.

This level of thinking is the reason that we are not getting our message across to the general public, the 'center', if you will. If we debase the meaning of 'lie, then what words will we use we we have hard proof that would convince people if we hadn't cried wolf so often? RAther than putting together lists of 100s of things that 'Bush lied' about, concentrate on the ones that really matter, and that are not subject to interpretation. Keep it simple and direct.

But, OK, I was wrong. The republicans don't really believe the sentiments they put on their bumper stickers. 50% of the population is totally evil or so stupid they don't actually know what they believe. I can't believe that, although I am willing to admit that they may be ignorant enough to be fooled.

But again, I am not against progressive policies, or the Democratic Party. I just don't like politicians. Career politicians are, by definition, careerists, and will put their careers above principle. There may be some exceptions, for instance I think Dean has been pretty consistent, but Kerry is a waffler. So is Claark

[Memekiller]

22. Whoops...

Yeah, you're right, I didn't read the entire thread. But those aren't examples of Democratic lies. You still haven't named those. The problem I see it is that Democrats are always like this, always the first to jump on any Democrat who dares to point out a Republican lie saying "They do it to". Do Republicans yelp about Ann Coulter? No. They don't care if their troops lie. All they care about is forwarding the agenda. And they'll lie to do it. And you can feel objective because you say "they're all the same." That's the attitude that sent people voting for Nader. "They all do it. They're all the same. See how objective and open minded I am?" Can anyone honestly claim after three years of Bush that there isn't a difference? Please!!!

There is no such desire for open mindedness on the right. Objectivity, open-mindedness -- these simply aren't virtues they care about. All they care about is advancing the cause, however they can -- if that means lying, if that means posing on boards as Dems (as more and more are), then they do.

This list of yours is the perfect example. Affirmative action is racist -- that's an opinion on policy. It's not a lie. "We have found the Weapons of Mass Destruction" is. Saying the White House had nothing to do with putting up the "Mission Accomplished" banner is. Saying there are 60 stem cell lines when there are ten is. Saying "I'm the first person to call for a Palestinian State" is. Saying there are few troops in Afghanistan now -- when there are more -- is. None of things are opinion. They're fact, plain and simple. Show me an example on the left where they are purposely distorting the true purpose of something as the Republicans are doing about suck ups to logging companies posing as "healthy forests", or rolling back industry upgrades so more crap can be pumped into the sky and calling it "clean skies"? Show me an example on the left equivelant to saying "I'm for cutting back CO2", then sinking Kyoto, denying global warming exists, and suppressing any scientific data that condicts you?

[forgethell]

23. Ok

now we're getting away from the original post and also, the point that I am trying to make. Of course republicans lie, and many of their motives are wrong. But from a strictly logical point that has nothing whatever to do with whether or not they have the correct solutions to the countrie's problems. Obviously, neither one of us thinks that they do. There is a good web page on logic, I'm sorry I don't have the link, but Google "The Atheist Web" and go down from there.

Cocnerning my list: we make believee that we are telling the truth on these things, but Republicans think we are using code words. We thinkk the same about them. Neither one has to be "lying", although some people may be.

My only point is that politicians will act like politicians. Ours lie, their's lie, 3rd party politicians will lie. I don't like lawyers, either, or used car salesmen. So we shouldn't criticize the Republicans for something so benign as posing with the troops. All pols will do that. there's plenty of legitimate criticism that can be aimed at bush, etc without us having to make stuff up.

[Memekiller]

24. I certainly agree...

...the "Mission Accomplished" banner is inconsequential. What we should concentrate on is what matters: issues. But I think what needs to be acknowledged, and what Democrats are too "open minded" and "objective" to ever be able to admit is that there is a real, organized effort to deceive on the part of the right. And those on the left would far sooner jump on a Democrat who points out that, for instance George W. Bush deliberately decieved us about how many stem cell lines there are... that's not a "point of view" issue, "depends on how you cut it". Nope. He said there were 60 stem cell lines. There aren't. Just because I won't say affirmative action is racist doesn't make me a hypocrite for pointing that out. He lied. Pure and simple. We can't have a debate over policy -- whether or not life begins at conception, what is ethical or not -- because Bush says "I'm pro-life, I won't kill stem cells," at the same time he says he's claiming to open them up to research.

An equivelant on the left would be to take a hot button issue like gun control, and for a Democrat to push through a bill that effectively makes it difficult if not impossible to buy a gun, and call it the "Gun Owners Rights" bill, and to have commercials run championing how we are making it easier for every gun loving American to buy a gun, at the very time your restricting it. That's dishonest, and it avoids talking about the real issue: should you be able to buy a gun when you want, where you want? Where do Democrats engage in this blatant, dishonest deception on the level of the GOP?

I don't say affirmative action is racist because I honestly don't believe it is. Do you think Bush says he's for limiting CO2 emissions because he believes it? Nope. He's lying. And Republicans vote for him because they know he's lying and will do everything within his power NOT to limit CO2 at the same time he tells the American people he is. They want him to lie so he can pass policy we don't want. It's time to call a spade a spade.

[Atman]

7. Why do dogs lick their nads?

Because they can.

Dems keep allowing the republicans to lie, that is why. They've demonstrated it to be a profitable strategy.

[freesqueeze]

13. Bill Maher, after the Florida debacle in 2000 and the Cali Recall...

Said that it's obvious that the Republicans will do ANYTHING to win political office, EXCEPT GETTING MORE VOTES.

[grannylib]

21. That is HILARIOUS

[tabasco]

25. Why they lie?

The republicans exist to support corporations, but they need support from working class people. They obtain this support by using lies based in racism, nationalism, guns, and religion. It always amazes me how many common people fall for the propaganda. The repubs want nothing more than to make these people cheap labor peasants. How contemptuous people like Bush must be towards working class shlubs that vote republican. Working people who vote republican are like a herd of cattle trying to outlaw pork and increase steak consumption.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noxemagrrl]

26. You sound angry

Are you mad because she knew how to get into office? I am not trying to be mean, but if she was able to get into office, apparently she did a good job getting voted for. I mean, on either side, whether we are republicans or democrats, sometimes we get our way, sometimes not. We need republicans and democrats for different reasons, they are quite different especially the extereme choices, such as Bush. A lot of Republicans and Democrats are beginning to understand they can't be so extreme so they redesign their opinions so that the people see them better. Saying you are against abortion or against the war in Iraq is very vauge. I am sure that a lot of people who are against abortion are for mother rights in case of rape, incest, or mother's life is in danger. I am also sure that people who are against the War in Iraq feel that it is good that we help people, maybe we need to pay more attention to our own problems here before we go out and help others, they are just against the violence because it doesn't seem to go together: assistance/pain. These subjects can be varied, different, same, changed, totally obsolete.

The point is that if someone gets voted into office, then that person knew how to get the vote. They may not be your choice, and they may not even be the right choice, but they got in, just be positive about life and try to make a difference yourself.

[noxemagrrl]

27. by the way

I just heard something recently: America has the most killings by guns WAY BY FAR in the entire World!!! Also that there are more people dying in Oakland, CA than in Iraq everyday!!

[Lindacooks]

30. You just heard that now?

Where have you been? Those stats have been common knowledge for years among the educated.

[burythehatchet]

31. WOW - that is an amazing factoid

Thanks for sharing - I hope you stick around past ...oh let's say 8:00PM tonight and regale us with many more such interesting tid bits.

[Lefty48197]

32. Because their mouths are moving for $100, Alex

eom

[PATRICK]

33. An old trick but

LBJ tryed this same chestnut by having a photographer snap photos of himself shaking hands informally with labor leaders. Dad threatened them not to use the picture as an "endorsement". Labor was going for kennedy and did.

I think the real issue is that the GOP firmly places itself in the eye of cognitive dissonance every time. In order to deal with the emotional effect and prejudice you have to somehow undo the lie or get to the truth- an extremely touchy and difficult thing to do. They co-opt every just flaw and criticsm of themselves for inappropriate if not absurd counterattacks against the other side- even IF the other side did not or never intended to use the right fitting shoe to tar them. The public wants reason and reassurance and goes along with the Big Lie because the alternative of opposing this bold fakery is too jarring.

Two instances. Googling things like "fifth columnists"(fascist insiders betraying their country)in America you get instead overwhelming numbers of rants about commies and pinkos in the 50's. Even cognitive dissonance itself is a theory employed by the Far Out There Right to attack us for plotting to brainwash America for some liberal "Third Reich"!

It's not just a tactic. It is baldly instinctive that they turn their weakness into a weapon for, not against, themselves without blinking an eye and no concern for the facts. They have little substance or imagination for anything else so this becomes a win/win defense/offense the public only gets to see one side of. Done with gusto and covering rage and incredible exagerration. It might be getting sicker and sicker but it has been remarkably consistent.

[OKHRANA]

34. because they want to win elections

and because they can't help it