CHICAGO TRIBUNE editorial: "A spray of fire"

[derby378]

Starkesia Reed and Siretha White were cut down by stray bullets in sprays of gunfire. Their murders, in recent incidents just days and blocks apart in the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago, were stunning.

Police say an AK-47 assault rifle converted to automatic use was used in the killing of 14-year-old Starkesia. It is not yet clear what weapon is to blame in the death of 10-year-old Siretha; investigators believe it may have been a pistol equipped with a large ammunition magazine.

These killings underscore the need to restrict assault weapons--and why such efforts are immensely frustrating. If Illinois were to impose a ban on the sale of such weapons, it wouldn't be hard to get around it. The gang member charged with killing Starkesia Reed bought an AK-47 in Indiana, which doesn't require a firearm owner's card. It's the same kind of weapon used in her murder, though that Indiana purchase has not yet been linked to the crime.

Nevertheless, Gov. Rod Blagojevich, Mayor Richard Daley and others have renewed a campaign for a state ban on assault weapons. They're on the right track.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0603270183mar27,0,7808909.story?coll=chi-newsopinion-hed

[Minnesota Libra]

1. As a gun lover and someone who screams bloody murder whenever...........

.....anyone suggests, even as a joke :grr:, banning guns I have one question. "What the crap do these people have AK 47's in the city for?":banghead: An AK 47 IS NOT a good hunting rifle unless the person is hunting human prey, so what are these idiots thinking anyway?:wtf:

[derby378]

2. What's being proposed is a STATEWIDE ban, though

If Chicago wants to outlaw semi-autos within their city limits, let the voters decide. Same thing with San Francisco outlawing handguns within the city itself - I may not like it, but then again, I don't live in SF. However, if you try to pass a ban that covers the whole state, you're in for a world of hurt. What plays in Chi-Town may not play in Peoria or Springfield.

[Minnesota Libra]

3. As a gun love I still say AK 47's have no place in the city/state but.....

.....I agree it should go to the voters for a permanent decision on the issue.:bounce:

[benEzra]

6. You understand that real AK's are already restricted by Federal law, yes?

As a gun love I still say AK 47's have no place in the city/state but.....I agree it should go to the voters for a permanent decision on the issue.

You understand that real AK-47's are already restricted by Federal law, yes? (By the National Firearms Act of 1934.)

The gun used in this crime was an illegal machinegun. Possession of one is something like a 10-year Federal felony, unless you are one of the very few non-LEO civilians authorized to possess one (and to get permission to own one, you have to pass what amounts to a Secret-level government security clearance).

An expert machinist can construct a machinegun from scratch, or convert a non-automatic civilian rifle into a machinegun with a well-equipped machine shop and several hours' work (as reportedly happened in this case). However, doing so is a major Federal felony; full-auto conversion parts are restricted just as tightly as if they were actual machineguns; and any civilian gun deemed by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to be easy to convert to full-auto is automatically classified as a restricted machinegun, even if not actually converted.

The proposed "assault weapons ban" in Illinois isn't about military automatic weapons like AK-47's. Rather, it would ban all civilian firearms holding more than 10 rounds, all civilian self-loading rifles and shotguns with handgrips that stick out (even hunting guns), and all civilian shotguns that use a detachable magazine. Despite the fact that all rifles and shotguns combined account for less than 0.9% of murders in Illinois, the gun prohibition lobby is using the Scary Gun bait-and-switch to try to ban all the long guns they can. That's ridiculous.

As a gun lover and someone who screams bloody murder whenever anyone suggests, even as a joke :grr:, banning guns I have one question. "What the crap do these people have AK 47's in the city for?" :banghead: An AK 47 IS NOT a good hunting rifle unless the person is hunting human prey, so what are these idiots thinking anyway?

First of all, hunting is almost completely irrelevant as a justification for owning a gun, since only 1 in 5 gun owners nationally is a hunter. 80% of gun owners do not hunt, including my wife and I, and most gun owners I know.

Second, what exactly do you mean when you say "AK-47"? The military selective-fire machinegun that is very tightly controlled by Federal law, or are you talking about civilian NON-automatic rifles that look, but do not function, like AK-47's?

If you're talking about the latter, you're wrong; a civvie AK lookalike is fine for hunting small-to-moderate-sized deer in wooded areas, such as you'd find here in eastern North Carolina. It's ballistically similar to a .30-30 Winchester, just with a little bit lower velocity for a given bullet weight. It's not powerful enough for humane long-range shots on deer, but it's adequate for shots inside 125 yards or so.

I happen to own a civvie AK lookalike (Romanian SAR-1). It's functionally identical in every way to a Ruger Mini Thirty deer rifle--same caliber, same rate of fire, same available capacities. However, it looks and feels very much like a real AKM. I think that's neat.

Here's my rifle in hunting configuration, with a 4x scope and a 5-round hunting magazine:


Romanian SAR-1 in hunting configuration

I don't hunt and have little interest in it, but if I ever do take up hunting, it will probably be with this rifle. And any politician who wants my vote had better not try to take it.

[Skittles]

8. where exactly do those f***ing things have a place????

:puke:

[benEzra]

9. In this country, they pretty much don't

which is why they (and all other automatic weapons) are restricted by Federal law to pretty much military and police use only. A non-LEO civilian can get clearance to own one, by passing what amounts to a Secret-level government security clearance (six to eight month background check, including interviews with your neighbors, your local chief law enforcement officer gets to sign off on your application). If you do get Federal approval, then a civilian-transferable AK-47 costs about $15,000. For obvious reasons, lawfully owned AK-47's are extremely rare in this country. I should point out that my rifle above is not a military AK-47; it is a civilian-only rifle that looks very much like an AK-47, but functions like an ordinary self-loading hunting rifle and is completely incapable of automatic fire.

As I mentioned previously, the ban Illinois is considering doesn't ban any automatic weapons; it bans non-automatic CIVILIAN guns that hold more than 10 rounds, as well as civilian rifles and shotguns with handgrips that stick out.

[DonP]

5. Drug turf war

The Englewood district has had a problem with gangs fighting over turf to sell drugs on the street for some time, like the past 30 years.

Illinois already had a FOID (Firearm Owners ID Card) card requirement to buy any gun or ammunition.

(Anyone think the gang members had valid FOID cards and underwent the required background check?)

The gun used are already banned in Chicago and was purchased in Indiana. (The criminals that killed the little girls don't care)

Full Auto has been illegal since the 1930's.

What does anyone want to bet that even if the governor gets his ban, that the gangs that killed these two girls will still have illegal guns and they will be just as easy to buy on the street as they are today.

The governor wil get his photo op, there will be no change in the violence in the Englewood community and over 1.5 million Illinois gun owners will hear once again that; "The Democrats will take your guns" in the fall elections and not just in Illinois either.

For the record: House Bill 2414 bans ALL semi-automatic guns, all magazines over 10 rounds, including my 1965 Marlin Model 60 .22 cal. squirrel gun that holds 15 rounds, all guns over .50 caliber, including shotguns over .410 gauge and has no grandfather clause or compensation for confiscated firearms.

I shoot an AR in CMP High Power competition and every one of us that shoots competitively will become instant felons thanks to this lousy piece of legislation aimed at trying to put a band aid on a major social problem rather than commit the resources in the form of police, job programs and other social support to the Englewood community they really need.

It's a "turn em all in" law. You have 90 days to turn them into the state police. No receipt, no compensation.

Next on Daley's hit parade, "nobody needs a handgun".

[benEzra]

4. Only four murders in the ENTIRE state using rifles of ANY type...

and they want to outlaw all civilian rifles with handgrips that stick out. That's ridiculous. Rifles of any type are VERY rarely used in crimes.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/offense_tabulations/table_20-22.html

Can the hysteria and look at the data. All rifles and shotguns COMBINED accounted for only 4 murders out of 448 in the state in 2005. More than twice as many people in Illinois were murdered with fists and feet as with all kinds of rifles combined. Nine times as many people were murdered with edged weapons as with rifles.

State.....Total.....Total.....Handguns...Rifles...Shotguns....Firearms......Edged......Other......Hands, Fists,
.........Murders...Firearms................................(Type Unknown)..Weapons....Weapons........Feet

Illinois.....448.....337.........313.......4..........0..........20..........37...........64..........10


You'd think the reporter would TELL you that little fact...

So, tell me again why civilian ownership of rifles with handgrips that stick out is SO dangerous that they need to be confiscated?

[derby378]

7. Bingo!!

Sounds like the Governor is taking the easy way out and going after those "nasty, icky, deadly, military-style assault weapons (eww!)" instead of tackling a problem that's just staring him in the face.