Running Against the Base: Hillary and Obama

[Jade Fox]

What could make the GOP happier than to run against Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama? This is just nuts. And I'm sorry Obama fans, but he (who was virtually handed his senate seat due to lack of serious opposition) is not shaping up to be an much of an asset to the Democrats. The last thing we need is another DINO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/running-against-the-base-_b_18374.html

Barack Obama is widely considered the front-runner for the VP slot should Hillary Clinton capture the nomination in '08. His recent endorsement of right-winger Joe Lieberman in the presence of liberal challenger Ned Lamont was a calculated slap - not only toward the liberal blogosphere, which has warmly endorse Lamont, but toward the great numbers of mainline Democrats who have been alienated by Lieberman's zealous support for the stumbling war effort.

Obama may have been paying Lieberman off for some favors, but he was also sending a message to the Party's insiders that says "I'm one of you." He's been doing that since he voted to confirm Condi Rice. In addition, he was sending a message to the commentariat that he's not "crashing the gate." He was signaling instead that he's an insider politician who - never fear, Mr. Russert et al - will play the game the ways it's always been played.

This "Run Against the Democrats" strategy is also reflected by Hillary Clinton's recent moves to run to the right of the Republicans on the issue of war with Iran, following on years of equivocation about her vote to support the invasion of Iraq. Party loyalists also recall here statements (during a February 2005 visit to Iraq with John McCain) that the insurgency was "failing" and that things were "going well" there.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. WHORES! TRAITORS! WHORES! TRAITORS! WHORES! TRAITORS!

Ahhh ...

I feel so much lefter now ...

--p!

[endarkenment]

6. The use of inflammatory rhetoric here is entirely your own.

The OP's post was a reasoned and moderately stated analysis of a functional problem within the Democratic Party that many of us are aware of and frustrated by. In a nightmare scenario, the Democratic Party captures control of congress in 06 and presidency in 08 and NOTHING MUCH CHANGES. We get a more nuanced version of the neocon follies, but the neocon follies continue. Perhaps that is acceptible to you, but then again you are satisfied with red baiting.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. RED baiting?

Speaking of inflammatory rhetoric ...

Incidentally, I'm not satisfied with "red baiting". I'm simply against leftist suicide. Reading some of the broadband revolutionaries around here, you'd think Hillary Clinton and John Kerry were the main impediments to the survival of the Republic ... Bush who?

You're correct that "nothing much changes". "Nothing much changes" because too many people are willing to vent their spleen over Hillary and the "spineless" Democrats rather than to do a damned thing themselves. The further left the person is, the greater the number and intensity of the complaints, and the LESS the action.

How ya gonna "take back the streets", "speak truth to power", and "stick it to The Man" while sitting at the 'puter gassing about Hillary, spinelessness, and screaming "TRAITOR! WHORE!" -- ? At least Hillary is doing something constructive. You don't agree? Call her up, write her a letter, make your case. When the Base is silent, the legislators have nothing to go on. I've done this many times. A few of them are quite responsive (Joe Hoeffel, for instance). Many just aren't, or are too busy. But if they get enough notes and phone calls, they'll get the picture.

And besides, they're OUR representatives. We have the right to kick their asses, direct.

This is my point. Which I endeavo(u)r to make impersonally instead of calling people out. When people see my "TRAITOR! WHORE!" headlines, they know I'm saying "Not this shit again. Pick up the phone and call them instead of just calling them names on DU!" I'm not running for anything. Find out who is, and keep his/her feet to the fire.

--p!

[endarkenment]

15. Why don't you just invent a whole army of strawmen to attack?

Yes your post was inflammatory, did not address the content of the OP at all and included the red-baiting "I feel so much lefter now ... ".

"speak truth to power" is accomplished by speaking the truth. The rest of your nonsense is just that.

Hillary and the rest of the neocon democrat wing of the war party are facilitators. With respect to our imperial folly she is doing nothing constructive. She is not my senator so I will defer directly doing anything about her until she tries to win the primary in my little ne state. She won't win, not if I can help it.

[DrGonzoLives]

18. Answer his question

What are you doing to change things, if the Democratic party is broken beyond repair?

[endarkenment]

19. Where did I say it was broken beyond repair?

Your assumption is another strawman argument. By the way I answered the question: I will work my ass off for the best antiwar candidate in the NH primary. I also oppose all the posters here stating or implying that we 'lefties' should just shut up about the DLC, about neocon Democrats, about the War Party's deep influence over the Democratic Party.

[yurbud]

14. so you're in favor of invading Iran, the bankruptcy bill....

[Demeter]

2. NO Argument From Me!

I am disappointed that Hillary and Barak Obama are taking the sleazy way, when what America needs is the yeoman farmer, can-do, give me liberty or give me death approach.

Frankly, we've had enough death; it's time for some of that American liberty and justice.

[bemildred]

3. Well, after all, we are the enemy.

When we rule, they don't.

[underpants]

4. A Clinton/Obama ticket ??

Oh Lord why even try?

[pnwmom]

5. Actual vote records show both are among the most progressive in the

Senate. Obama is in 7th place among all Senators, Clinton in 9th place.

http://www.progressivepunch.com/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=69&y=6

You can quibble all you want with particular votes that didn't go your way, but overall neither candidate is anything close to a DINO.

[Jade Fox]

7. Thanks for the link...

I stand corrected on Clinton and Obama being DINOs. However, I'm still confused as to why their most public stands seem to be conservative. I found Obama's very public support for Joe Lieberman (and put-down of "left-wing" bloggers) to be particularly disturbing. Then there is that no-support-for-Feingold problem.

I'm tempting to think they Clinton and Obama are using some sort of strategy to try look more conservative than they are. I am convinced the the Democrats as a whole are so busy over-thinking their moves that they've lost the ability to recognize what is the right thing to do, and simply take the appropriate action.

[pnwmom]

9. I think you're right. People like Hillary think they have to appear more

conservative than they really are, to attract the independents. But even the independents are looking for a REAL choice.

[FiveGoodMen]

12. Their votes are very important, but

their public statements matter as well. When they repeat RW talking points, the press all say, "See? Even the Dems agree." When they contradict or downplay the statements of a Feingold or Conyers, they take the wind out of the Democratic Party's sails.

And then there's that Iraq War Vote that Hillary can't seem to regret. She had a constitutional role to prevent a madman in the Whitehouse from starting a war for his own personal reasons and she's proud that she shirked it.

[pnwmom]

13. Yes, that bothers me too.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. This has become a serious problem

It isn't just how do we take the country back from the neoconservatives? but how do we take the Party back from the DLC?

[pnwmom]

10. Has anyone else noticed the irony that while the freepers paint Hillary as

a raging liberal, so many of us condemn her as a DINO -- without taking her record into consideration? Actually, given her 9th place record on progressive issues (out of 100 Senators), the freepers are closer to the truth.

[endarkenment]

16. All she has to do is come over from the dark side and

apologize for her IWR vote and admit that the war is was and always has been a bogus deception foisted on the american people and a criminal enterprise that violates international law.

[tritsofme]

17. Democratic Circular Firing Squad...

ASSEMBLE!