The Myth of a Christian Nation......new book by an evangelical minister

[bobbieinok]

(spelling edit)

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/4/6/135938/1432

The Myth of a Christian Nation
By Carlos Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01 :59:38 PM EST

Gregory Boyd's new book, The Myth of a Christian Nation, will be released on May 1st. The interesting thing about this is not that there is a new book out exposing the myth of our Christian nationhood, but that it is written by an evangelical pastor and published by the traditional evangelical publisher, Zondervan.

....

Some excerpts from the two excerpts published in Christianity Today's Out of Ur blog:
....

In April of 2004, as the religious buzz was escalating, I felt it necessary to preach a series of sermons that would provide a biblical explanation for why our church should not join the rising chorus of right-wing political activity. I also decided this would be a good opportunity to expose the danger of associating the Christian faith too closely with any political point of view, whether conservative or liberal. < >

I felt as though I'd stuck a stick in a hornet's nest! About 20 percent of my congregation (roughly a thousand people) left the church. < >

My thesis, which caused such an uproar, is this: I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. < >

What gives the connection between Christianity and politics such strong emotional force in the U.S.? I believe it is the longstanding myth that America is a Christian nation. < >

The negative reaction to my sermons made it clear that this foundational myth is alive and well in the evangelical community -- and not just in its fundamentalist fringes. That reaction leads me to suspect that this myth is being embraced more intensely and widely now than in the past precisely because evangelicals sense that it is being threatened. The truth is that the concept of America as a Christian nation, with all that accompanies that myth, is actually losing its grip on the collective national psyche, and as America becomes increasingly pluralistic and secularized, the civil religion of Christianity is losing its force. Understandably, this produces consternation among those who identify themselves as the nation's religious guardians. < >

Because the myth that America is a Christian nation has led many to associate America with Christ, many now hear the good news of Jesus only as American news, capitalistic news, imperialistic news, exploitive news, antigay news, or Republican news.

*****

followed by comments

[BrklynLiberal]

It seems the truth hurts.

The fundies are going to go sit in the corner with their fingers in their ears and hum "nonononononononononono"

[darkmaestro019]

14. Ha. I thought it was "la la la la"

but maybe it varies slightly by region? ; )

Do they stomp their feet for emphasis where you are and use "Nyuh uh!" a lot before they give up and cover their ears?

[ClintonTyree]

21. No, they're going to....

either blow the entire planet all to hell or set up "re-education" camps where the "REAL" truth can be driven into people's heads 24/7. These dangerous people are not going to go quietly. The author hits the nail right on the head. They're afraid of losing their influence and power, just like the Republicans, and will destroy everything in their attempts to keep it. The old, "if I can't have it, NOBODY can" kindergarten tantrum.
That's the basic difference between Democrats and Republicans as I see it. Democrats embrace change, they want things to evolve and get better for ALL. Republicans hate change. They want to stop or reverse the clock to go back to some imaginary time when all was well and everyone knew their place. They're scared of the present, let alone the future.

[ceile]

1. Interesting....

I think I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.

[XemaSab]

2. People interested in this

Might also be interested in the book "God's Politics" by Jim Wallis (sp?).

It's a great book.

He calls W a heretic. :D

[EVDebs]

3. Founded by Freemasons (Liberty, Equality, Fraternity...) who believed

in religious tolerance. BTW, Washington, Revere and others had relatives who had been French Hugenots (Protestants) persecuted during the St Bartholomew's Day massacre etc. in France.

""The French Protestants were called Huguenots: President George Washington had a Huguenot ancestor, as did at least 5 other Presidents: John Adams, John Quincy Adams, John Tyler, James Garfield, and Theodore Roosevelt. A Huguenot refugee named Apollos de Revoire settled in Boston, and had a son who signed his name Paul Revere! Remember his famous midnight ride? Three members of the Continental Congress - Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and Elias Boudinot were Huguenots. Other great names include Francis Marrion, General George Patton, Clair Chennault, Admiral Dewey, Du Ponts, Henry Thoreau, Longfellow etc., etc. A Huguenot colony was founded in Florida in 1562 (years before the English landed), but was later destroyed by Spanish raiders.""

http://www.reformation.org/bart.html

[Coastie for Truth]

10. Don't forget the Unitarians

like John Qunicy Adams (and Jefferson's Bible - used in the Unitarian Church in my neighborhood)

[darkmaestro019]

15. Has anyone told Jack Chick that?

If you haven't see what he's done about Masonry in his increasingly insane/deranged/lame little hate pamphlets........uh, don't.

[ClintonTyree]

22. Those "Chick Tracts" are freaking hilarious!

In a spooky and deranged way I mean. I find them laying around in odd places when I'm out and have quite a collection of them now. The guy definitely is full tilt, down the road, bonkers! :rofl:

[darkmaestro019]

32. I have a collection too, ha.......

They look real cute beside the Marilyn Manson/Crow/NIN/Giger posters. One thumbtack will hold them up and if you stick it through the back cover you can still read them. : )

[laheina]

24. That dude is a nut.

He does similar stuff about Catholics. :eyes:

[darkmaestro019]

33. And Wiccans and Muslims and GLBT people and atheists......

The pathetic manipulative drawing style (all the Christians are roundfaced and wide-eyed and smooth and polite and SO unfairly abused all the time...and all the "evil" people are all angles, craggy, dirty-looking, with hooky noses and mean expressions and rude conversational tactics...)


Disney does the same thing, and so does a lot of Japanese anime--villains have small eyes and a lot of sharp straight lines, good guys are "chibi" (cute, cuddly-looking, big-eyed and round with singsong, soft, pleasant voices)

Someone else used to do it too--Nazi Germany. They put out tons of posters and books and other propaganda, making the Jews deliberately resemble rats and other unsavory visual/"sub"conscious comparisons intended to convince by emotion, since there's obviously no way to convince anyone of this kind of BS by logic.

EDITED: clarity, and "drawing style" because calling that poison art even with a small "a" is obscene.

[neoblues]

4. Amazing How a Little Education...

can go so far. Interesting also that an actual Pastor would be able to both recognize and have the courage to express the (awkward) truth on these matters.

[jwirr]

20. The Sojourner New paper is also of interest here.

[laheina]

25. On that note.

I find it disturbing that many evangelical pastors have so little education, even regarding the bible. Some buck this trend, but not all. :eyes:

[northernsoul]

34. I actually took a Theology course from Greg Boyd

While he and I will ultimately part ways on fundamental issues of metaphysical speculation, I do respect him as both a charismatic and persuasive speaker and as someone who will not allow dogma to compromise his intellectual integrity. As I've been telling my evangelical friends and family for the past two years, institutional evangelical christendom is both intellectually and morally bankrupt - Greg Boyd may be their only hope restoring them to solvency. However, my guess will be that he'll laregely receive the same welcome that truth-tellers receive everywhere: hatred and ridicule.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Put on my list of books to get

Thanks for the reference.

[RedEarth]

6. Thanks for positng....

[xray s]

7. Thomas Jefferson said this about it

In fact, this is inscribed at the Jefferson Monument in DC;

Almighty God hath created the mind free…All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens…are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion…No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively.

Taken from A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, 1777. The last sentence is taken from a letter to James Madison, August 28, 1789.

[WePurrsevere]

8. Good for him! Thankfully I was not in a church growing up that taught the

myth of a "christian nation".

This is a book I'll have to check out later. Sounds interesting... might even make a good gift for my father. B-)

[unblock]

9. that we are founded on religious tolerance IS what makes us america

the idea that we are many religions and that the government would be neutral to them is perhaps ultimately more significant than the idea of "democracy", which at the begining was restricted to white male landowners anyway, making it more of a "democracy for aristocrats" than we'd like to romanticize.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

11. This is a facet of Americans not knowing their history, which

apparently has been a long standing fact. The only Christian nation aspect of our history was the highly repressive and authoritarian Puritans Massachusetts Bay Colony which resoundingly failed. And understandably so as life in the colony was a living hell. I have found that there are a few Christians who understand that being commingled with the government means that the government is commingled with them, which is not in their best interest. However, they appear to be the minority.

[NMMNG]

12. Mmm, yet another book on my "too be read" list

Which grows exponentially almost daily. :-)

[DarkTirade]

13. Nice to be reminded that not all religious people

are whackos and/or sheep. :)

[Jo March]

18. It's sad that when someone says they are religious

the first thing that the average, nonreligious person thinks is either "whacko" or "sheep" or something along those lines.

This country is not a Christian country as countries cannot give themselves to Christ. Countries have no hearts to give!

I'm glad that this book is coming out. I know someone who has a birthday coming up and he should read this. Are you reading this, Mark?? :hi:

[davidwparker]

16. And all God's people said, "Amen!"

My thesis, which caused such an uproar, is this: I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry.

[jwirr]

17. As a Democrat and a Christian I welcome this book. When

churches associate Christ with country they open the door to deserved criticism. The the church and Christ are guilty of the wrongs the country commits. This is why they have to rewrite history. Because then the treatment of Native American, slaves, third world nations, etc. becomes the sins of the church. When you have separation of church and state there is no such link because actions taken by individuals do not necessarily reflect on the whole group. i.e. Hitler did not equate German Church.

[Jo March]

19. You nailed it, jwirr

Countries can commit atrocities and the Church becomes responsible for those atrocities if there is no seperation of Church and State. Why can't the zealots see that?? It's relatively simple.

Also, the notion of a country being able to be Christian is ridiculous. Countries have no soul or heart and therefore can pledge neither to Christ, God, or any other religious entity.

[phoebe]

23. just last night I was wondering why the truly religious Christians haven't

done more to reclaim their religion from the Christian frauds. Looks like the dialogue is about to begin in earnest. The author is a very brave man and deserves our support.

[laheina]

26. Truly, a book by Zondervan that I can and will buy.

And I seen a lot of news stories about main line Protestant pastors stepping up to the plate, but I'm glad that the sane evangelicals are coming out too.

As of late, there have been groups of evangelical pastors coming out to support the truth of global warming, condemn the war in Iraq, and now this.

I'm not a fan of Zondervan in general, but I totally will be supporting this author. :hi:

[cornermouse]

27. Nationalistic and political idolatry.

I hadn't thought of it quite that way. And he might be right. I couldn't help but notice, though, that there are a quite a few people who seemed to be guilty of worshipping Bush.

I would agree that the christian faith should not be associated closely with any political party. As we've seen, its too easy for the politicians to tarnish the christian beliefs by manipulating the faithful.

[confludemocrat]

28. this is about white, christian hedgemony in the world

and not about people worshipping Bush! Sorta like the way the southern baptists were about white christian hedgemony in this country through a link to slavery and Dixie and later to Jim Crow

[cornermouse]

30. But...

if you listen to them and if you watch them, you will find that some of them really are coming very close to worshipping Bush.

I'm not even entirely sure its about white hedgemony, although you may very well be right.

But I am certain it isn't really about christian hedgemony, at least as far as Bush and his buddies are concerned. When Bush is ready, I think the christian contingency will find themselves abandoned.

[kitkat65]

29. And Bush is their golden calf

"I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry"

[stevietheman]

31. The Father of Our Country said....

"The government of the United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian religion." -- George Washington

[NeoLib 42]

35. More History.

This is a great quote. It appears in the Treaty of Tripoli which was first signed in Nov 1796. I just found this great site that shows quite a history proving that America is not, I repeat, NOT, a Christian nation.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

As a Christian I am quite offended by the BushCo regime putting their words in the mouth of God and calling it absolute. This, of course, goes far beyond the shrub. Just follow the rotten stench of the Neocon agenda and anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that they believe themselves to be even above Gods law. To those of us paying attention, we can see that they only invoke the name of God when the agenda calls for it. I seem to recall a commandment prohibiting the use of Gods name for vein purposes.

If they truly believed in moral values they would have introduced a parallel bill along side the Federal Marriage Amendment Act. Can anyone show any greater threat to the sanctity of marriage than divorce?

I do find it rather ironic that Jesus never mentions anything about homosexuality but does indeed talk about divorce several times.

Oops. I guess I went off on a bit of a rant. Anyway, thank you, Stevie, for this quote. And thanks to everyone else posting on this subject.

This is my very first post at DU. I've been reading for about a year and finally decided to write something.