Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

PRO-LIFE NATION (NY Times--this could happen here!)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 12:48 AM
Original message
PRO-LIFE NATION (NY Times--this could happen here!)
Edited on Sun Apr-09-06 12:57 AM by Liberty Belle
PRO-LIFE NATION

New York Times (4/9/06) -- It was a sunny midafternoon in a shiny new global-economy mall in San Salvador, the capital city of El Salvador, and a young woman I was hoping to meet appeared to be getting cold feet…I was feeling nervous; I was stood up the day before by another woman in a similar situation. I had been warned that interviewing anyone who had had an abortion in El Salvador would be difficult. The problem was not simply that in this very Catholic country a shy 24-year-old unmarried woman might feel shame telling her story to an older man. There was also the criminal stigma. And this was why I had come to El Salvador: Abortion is a serious felony here for everyone involved, including the woman who has the abortion. Some young women are now serving prison sentences, a few as long as 30 years…

The array of exceptions that tend to exist even in countries where abortion is circumscribed — rape, incest, fetal malformation, life of the mother — don't apply in El Salvador. They were rejected in the late 1990's, in a period after the country's long civil war ended. The country's penal system was revamped and its constitution was amended. Abortion is now absolutely forbidden in every possible circumstance. No exceptions.

There are other countries in the world that, like El Salvador, completely ban abortion, including Malta, Chile and Colombia. El Salvador, however, has not only a total ban on abortion but also an active law-enforcement apparatus — the police, investigators, medical spies, forensic vagina inspectors and a special division of the prosecutor's office responsible for Crimes Against Minors and Women, a unit charged with capturing, trying and incarcerating an unusual kind of criminal. Like the woman I was waiting to meet…

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is what Republicans want for American women?
This is what the Vatican wants? Damn both of them.

Damn them to hell. These same countries won't allow birth control or family planning.

Women are property. Men have no accountability.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Women are property. Men have no accountability."
Sounds like the Republican platform to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is what happens when religious beliefs become law.
The legislative battle and its outcome did not escape the attention of leaders of anti-abortion groups in the United States. Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, the head of Human Life International, based in Virginia, is intimately familiar with the campaign in El Salvador and says that there are lessons for Americans to learn from it. For one thing, as Euteneuer sees it, the Salvadoran experience shows that all moves to expand abortion rights are pushed through by "elite" institutions of government (the U.S. Supreme Court, for example); by contrast, Euteneuer contends, when the laws are tightened, a grass-roots campaign is inevitably responsible. "El Salvador is an inspiration," he told me recently, an important victory in what he called "the counterrevolution of conscience."

Today, Article 1 of El Salvador's constitution declares that the prime directive of government is to protect life from the "very moment of conception." The penal code detailing the Crimes Against the Life of Human Beings in the First Stages of Development provides stiff penalties: the abortion provider, whether a medical doctor or a back-alley practitioner, faces 6 to 12 years in prison. The woman herself can get 2 to 8 years. Anyone who helps her can get 2 to 5 years. Additionally, judges have ruled that if the fetus was viable, a charge of aggravated homicide can be brought, and the penalty for the woman can be 30 to 50 years in prison.


When the woman is first detained, the form of custody can vary. Wandee Mira, an obstetrician at a hospital in San Salvador, told me that she had seen "a young girl handcuffed to her hospital bed with a police officer standing outside the door." In El Salvador, a person accused of a major crime is typically held in jail in "preventative detention" until the trial begins. Tópez, who said she had prosecuted perhaps 10 or 15 abortion cases in the last eight years, said that she took the severity of the case into account and sometimes argued for "substitutive measures instead of jail," like house arrest, while the accused was awaiting trial. My impression was that Tópez was emphasizing such relative leniencies as house arrest instead of detention, as well as suspended sentences for women who report the abortionist, because, like most people, she was uncomfortable with the inevitable logic that insists upon making a woman who has had an abortion into a criminal. Even Regina de Cardenal, whose group was instrumental in passing the ban, could not quite square the circle.

"I believe the woman is a victim," de Cardenal told me. "The criminals are the people who perform the abortions." When pressed about the fact that the law she helped pass does treat the woman as a criminal, she said: "Yes, it's part of the law of our country. Because the woman has murdered her baby — and that's why she is sent to jail. But I believe that the woman who is sent to jail remains a victim of the abortion doctor, the abortionist, who knows exactly what he is doing."


According to Sara Valdés, the director of the Hospital de Maternidad, women coming to her hospital with ectopic pregnancies cannot be operated on until fetal death or a rupture of the fallopian tube. "That is our policy," Valdés told me. She was plainly in torment about the subject. "That is the law," she said. "The D.A.'s office told us that this was the law." Valdés estimated that her hospital treated more than a hundred ectopic pregnancies each year. She described the hospital's practice. "Once we determine that they have an ectopic pregnancy, we make sure they stay in the hospital," she said. The women are sent to the dispensary, where they receive a daily ultrasound to check the fetus. "If it's dead, we can operate," she said. "Before that, we can't." If there is a persistent fetal heartbeat, then they have to wait for the fallopian tube to rupture. If they are able to persuade the patient to stay, though, doctors can operate the minute any signs of early rupturing are detected. Even a few drops of blood seeping from a fallopian tube will "irritate the abdominal wall and cause pain," Valdés explained. By operating at the earliest signs of a potential rupture, she said, her doctors are able to minimize the risk to the woman.



We can not let this happen here.
I will not let this happen here.


Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. "forensic vagina inspectors?!!"
Over my dead body!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is sick beyond belief
About the time a GOP tries to hold women as felons for choice, they will meet a wrath they have never before felt. Enough of this sick religious crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. First they came for ( ) and I was not one, so I did nothing. Then they
came for ( )...

Sound familiar.

By the time that happens, it will be TOO LATE.

YOU will "lose".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David in Canada Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is sick!
Women have the RIGHT to control their own bodies.

Granted, a fetus has it's own DNA, but so do tapeworms and tumours. A woman, or anyone for that matter, has the right to control any foreign body inside of themselves. NO exceptions.

The Catholic church is responsible for hampering our social, political and economic progress. This world would be much better if the catholic church never was founded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wizdum Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. El Salvador is a nightmare...
It is really scary that this type of repression of women still goes on in the 21st century. Some of these countries are hispanic and strictly adhere to the cannons of Catholicism, which forbid abortion, birth control, yada, yada, yada. The catholic church should stay out of politics because these Draconian birth control laws are what happens when there is NO separation of church and state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm filled with rage!
Any Nation that would wait until a women's fallopian tube burst before operating should be wiped off the face of the Earth!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Agreed. I was diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy once.
My doctor was so alarmed that he called me at home on a Sunday morning and insisted I come to his office immediately, after learning he'd missed a phone call complaining of sharp right-sided pain after a positive pregnancy test.
As I had family plans, I asked if it couldn't wait 'til Monday.

"I don't want to scare you," he said, "but if I'm right, and this is an ectopic pregnancy, you could die if you wait."

Fortunately, an ultrasound proved his diagnosis wrong, and I later had a perfectly healthy baby. But if it had been a tubal pregnancy, an abortion would have been the only sane choice as it is NEVER possible to carry an ectopic pregnancy to term. The "baby" is doomed either way; this is a matter of saving the mother.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. The idea of forensic vagina inspectors
must give a few fundies an instant hard on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Exactly
I suspect that's what's at the heart of all this.

I remember reading accounts of women tortured during the Inquisition and at other various witchcraft trials. This stuff would make DeSade blush (OK, that's an exaggeration--at least DeSade was upfront about what he was doing and why he was doing it, though).

Very sexual, very sadistic, very obsessed with possessing and controlling women's bodies completely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. yeah, but there are a lot of american women who haven't thought
this far. and they aren't all fundies, all they are picturing is a happy mother with a little bouncing joy. not some poor soul living in poverty, trying to figure out how they are going to take care of that child.

I wonder what the poverty rate is in el salvador, and what kind of social programs they have for all of these new babys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC