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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 02:48 PM
Original message
The frightening truth of why Iran wants a bomb
Edited on Sun Apr-16-06 02:56 PM by Poppyseedman
Last Monday, just before he announced that Iran had gatecrashed "the nuclear club", President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappeared for several hours. He was having a khalvat (tête-à-tête) with the Hidden Imam, the 12th and last of the imams of Shiism who went into "grand occultation" in 941.

According to Shia lore, the Imam is a messianic figure who, although in hiding, remains the true Sovereign of the World. In every generation, the Imam chooses 36 men, (and, for obvious reasons, no women) naming them the owtad or "nails", whose presence, hammered into mankind's existence, prevents the universe from "falling off". Although the "nails" are not known to common mortals, it is, at times, possible to identify one thanks to his deeds. It is on that basis that some of Ahmad-inejad's more passionate admirers insist that he is a "nail", a claim he has not discouraged. For example, he has claimed that last September, as he addressed the United Nations' General Assembly in New York, the "Hidden Imam drenched the place in a sweet light".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/16/do1609.xml


This is all new to me.

I always thought of Ahmadinejad as a political figurehead for the religious powers, not some cultist weirdo waiting to push the big red button.

Comments?
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Distinction without a Difference?
How might one meaningfully distinguish, in contemporary Iran, between "political figurehead for the religious powers," and "some cultist weirdo" ??
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Almost all rational people understand the Ayatollahs run Iran
I was not aware that the political figurehead that represents the country is some secret cultist member.

One would think Iran would have someone the rest of the world would consider stable to speak for it.?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. You are aware that our religions are just as looney, right?
For example: the pope talks directly to God. The mormons believe that they receive divine revelations on a regular basis. Fundamentalists also hold that they are in direct communciation on a personal level with their diety. The Iranian president's religious beliefs are more looney that our endtime fundamentalists in exactly what way?
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. In all your examples there is one missing concept lacking
Catholics, Mormons, Fundie all are motivated by the idea that God is a loving God that loves them and the people around them. I know that is manifested in ways that sometimes seem to be contradictory.

As opposed to the Islamic Fundies who seem to think wiping non Muslim people off the face of the earth is a call of Allah.

Believe me, the fact you think Christians are crazy as a loon will not make you a non- infidel. You will be only the last eaten by the tiger instead of the first if it ever comes to that.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You appear to not have listened to right wing hate radio much.
The suggestion that we ought to just have turned Iraq into radioactive glass was made quite frequently. Fundamentalist loons are pretty much the same in all faiths. Islam has no lock on the hatred of others.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. So we have two guys with delusions of (religious) grandeur
squaring off? Swell. Just friggin swell. x(
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, would it be reasonable to extrapolate that the Iran Plan is nothing
more than which religious fanatic who happens to run a country is going to bring on Judgment Day? If * does it, Christianity wins, and likewise for Ahmadinejad and Islam.

Is this what the religious right really wants?
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think the religious right really wants to see "Judgment Day"
anymore then the moderate Iranians want to see Ahmadinejad be visited by the returning 12th Imam

I fail to see how anyone "wins"
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Nobody wins. All you have is two men who want to change history
through their devotion (warped albeit) to their respective gods. That's scary.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. How nice of you to equate our religious right
with moderate iranians.

You should do some research on the end time myths that dominate the relgious right in this country. The correct equivalence is between the religous right here in the USA and the religious right there in Iran.

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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. No, I'm sorry you can't be any more wrong
1. End time myths don't dominate the religious right in this country to a point where people actually elect leaders to see that it happens as it appears to be happening in Iran. The religious right certainly do believe in the Revelation account in the Bible, but only a small minority actually hope and pray that it actually happens.

2. I am very well versed on end time myths: The Rapture, Armageddon, The return of Christ.

Only those with deep paranoia fueled by ignorance about these subjects actually think it is a dangerous belief system to our way of life.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here is the author's bio...
judge for yourself his motives. Especially note his current position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Taheri

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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. He made some very tangible predictions
Thus do not be surprised if, by the end of the 12 days still left of the United Nations' Security Council "deadline", Ahmadinejad announces a "temporary suspension" of uranium enrichment as a "confidence building measure". Also, don't be surprised if some time in June he agrees to ask the Majlis (the Islamic parliament) to consider signing the additional protocols of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT).


Time will tell what agenda he is coming from.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Oh, I see -- a member of Benador Associates a neoconservative PR firm
Some other notable members
Charles Krauthammer
Michael A. Ledeen
Richard Perle
James Woolsey

A quick glance at many of the other members they offer as speakers shows they get published a lot in Washington Times, National Review, Wall Street Journal, etc.

Click on a name and scroll down for the list of articles published.http://www.benadorassociates.com/members.php
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. who can hear anything above the din of rattling swords?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Comment: this is drool. nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. You're right. From a crappy, right-wing paper. Embarrassingly slimey.
~snip~
The Daily Mail together with two other rightwing dailies, Daily Telegraph and the Sun virtually dictate political debate in Britain and can intimidate politicians into going for tougher policies than their natural instincts would favour. These papers have fuelled prejudices, dulled people’s sensitivities to suffering of the less fortunate and generally injected a hardness and meanness into British public life.
(snip)

~snip~
Conrad Black

He owns the right-wing Daily Telegraph in UK, unofficial organ of the Conservative party and the Jerusalem Post in Israel. He also owns Hollinger International, whose board includes Henry Kissinger and Richard Perle. He has built his empire from a $7 million inheritance left by his father. His salary: $4.6 million a year.
More On Conrad Black
by Dan Milmo April 3, 2003 The Guardian

Lord Black's sprawling publishing empire, ranging from the Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph & Spectator in Britain to the Jerusalem Post and the Chicago Sun-Times, is under financial pressure and has had to pledge most of its assets to lenders, according to regulatory filings in Washington. The Hollinger group, which has long-term debts of $500m (£317m) and has run up pre-tax losses of $573m over the past two years, reveals in its annual report that meeting "substantial" debt service obligations is dependent on cash from US and foreign subsidiaries, provided by dividends and other payments. Yet the company admits that these businesses face restrictions on payment of dividends to Hollinger and that the majority of shares in subsidiaries have been assigned to lenders as collateral.
(snip)
http://www.goacom.org/overseas-digest/Media/otherbarons.html


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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Keep on pushing 'they're crazy: must not have bomb" meme.
After all we wouldn't want americans to get upset when we start slaughtering Iranians for no reason, would we?

Sheesh.

Spin. Rinse. Repeat. Are we brainwashed yet?
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Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. We've passed brainwashed.....
....paranoid hysteria reigns.....
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-19-06 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. well lets look at facts and history not neocon propaganda
Edited on Wed Apr-19-06 03:10 AM by Douglas Carpenter
I have generally not been a big fan of Texas Republican Congressman Ron Paul and I don't care much for his brand of capitalist-libertarianism.

But this speech is absolutely awesome and extremely informative:


http://recap.fednet.net/archive/Buildasx.asp?sProxy=80_hflr040506_146.wmv,80_hflr040506_147.wmv,80_hflr040506_148.wmv,80_hflr040506_149.wmv,80_hflr040506_150.wmv,80_hflr040506_151.wmv,80_hflr040506_152.wmv,80_hflr040506_153.wmv,80_hflr040506_154.wmv,80_hflr040506_155.wmv&sTime=00:03:17.0&eTime=00:01:11&duration=00:42:42.0&UserName=reppaultx&sLocation=G&sExpire=0

and here is the other link:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/18.html#a7953

transcript - link:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr040506.htm

excerpts from transcript:


Snip:"There is no evidence of a threat to us by Iran, and no reason to plan and initiate a confrontation with her. There are many reasons not to do so, however.

Iran does not have a nuclear weapon and there’s no evidence that she is working on one--only conjecture.

If Iran had a nuclear weapon, why would this be different from Pakistan, India, and North Korea having one? Why does Iran have less right to a defensive weapon than these other countries?

If Iran had a nuclear weapon, the odds of her initiating an attack against anybody-- which would guarantee her own annihilation-- are zero. And the same goes for the possibility she would place weapons in the hands of a non-state terrorist group.

Pakistan has spread nuclear technology throughout the world, and in particular to the North Koreans. They flaunt international restrictions on nuclear weapons. But we reward them just as we reward India."

snip:"IAEA Director General Mohamed El Baradi has never reported any evidence of “undeclared” sources or special nuclear material in Iran, or any diversion of nuclear material.

We demand that Iran prove it is not in violation of nuclear agreements, which is asking them impossibly to prove a negative. El Baradi states Iran is in compliance with the nuclear NPT required IAEA safeguard agreement."

snip:"Anti-Iran voices, beating the drums of confrontation, distort the agreement made in Paris and the desire of Iran to restart the enrichment process. Their suspension of the enrichment process was voluntary, and not a legal obligation. Iran has an absolute right under the NPT to develop and use nuclear power for peaceful purposes, and this is now said to be an egregious violation of the NPT. It’s the U.S. and her allies that are distorting and violating the NPT. Likewise our provision of nuclear materials to India is a clear violation of the NPT.

The demand for UN sanctions is now being strongly encouraged by Congress. The “Iran Freedom Support Act,” HR 282, passed in the International Relations Committee; and recently the House passed H Con Res 341, which inaccurately condemned Iran for violating its international nuclear non-proliferation obligations. At present, the likelihood of reason prevailing in Congress is minimal. Let there be no doubt: The Neo-conservative warriors are still in charge, and are conditioning Congress, the media, and the American people for a pre-emptive attack on Iran. Never mind that Afghanistan has unraveled and Iraq is in civil war: serious plans are being laid for the next distraction which will further spread this war in the Middle East. The unintended consequences of this effort surely will be worse than any of the complications experienced in the three-year occupation of Iraq.

Our offer of political and financial assistance to foreign and domestic individuals who support the overthrow of the current Iranian government is fraught with danger and saturated with arrogance. Imagine how American citizens would respond if China supported similar efforts here in the United States to bring about regime change! How many of us would remain complacent if someone like Timothy McVeigh had been financed by a foreign power? Is it any wonder the Iranian people resent us and the attitude of our leaders? Even though El Baradi and his IAEA investigations have found no violations of the NPT-required IAEA safeguards agreement, the Iran Freedom Support Act still demands that Iran prove they have no nuclear weapons-- refusing to acknowledge that proving a negative is impossible."

snip:"Just as the invasion of Iraq inadvertently served the interests of the Iranians, military confrontation with Iran will have unintended consequences. The successful alliance engendered between the Iranians and the Iraqi majority Shia will prove a formidable opponent for us in Iraq as that civil war spreads. Shipping in the Persian Gulf through the Straits of Hormuz may well be disrupted by the Iranians in retaliation for any military confrontation. Since Iran would be incapable of defending herself by conventional means, it seems logical that some might resort to a terrorist attack on us. They will not passively lie down, nor can they be destroyed easily.

One of the reasons given for going into Iraq was to secure “our” oil supply. This backfired badly: Production in Iraq is down 50%, and world oil prices have more than doubled to $60 per barrel. Meddling with Iran could easily have a similar result. We could see oil over $120 a barrel and, and $6 gas at the pump. The obsession the Neo-cons have with remaking the Middle East is hard to understand. One thing that is easy to understand is none of those who planned these wars expect to fight in them, nor do they expect their children to die in some IED explosion"




________________________________________
Those familiar with the Middle East are well aware of a particular kind of bravado. Just as those familiar with the Bush Administration are familiar with their kind of bravado.

But for the record the Iranian President is not the commander of Iranian Armed forces. The final Decision would be up to the Chief of State and Supreme religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamanei who has already delivered a fatwa against the use of nuclear weapons. And as pointed out in the Juan Cole article-even the Iranian President has stated several times that he would never condone any mass killing of civilian.

But for the sake of argument, if Iran or one of their minions were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel - they would not only desecrate Islamic holy sites, desecrate a land considered sacred to all Muslims--they would kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims; including countless Shiites in southern Lebanon; and this does not include those killed by a retaliatory strike. This is quite implausible

And let us remember, so far their is no evidence whatsoever that Iran is anywhere near such a capacity.

Fishing for a Pretext in Iran

by Juan Cole; March 18, 2006

link: http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=9929

snip:"Supreme Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei has given a fatwa or formal religious ruling against nuclear weapons, and President Ahmadinejad at his inauguration denounced such arms and committed Iran to remaining a nonnuclear weapons state."

snip:"Tehran denies having military labs aiming for a bomb, and in November of 2003 the IAEA formally announced that it could find no proof of such a weapons program."

snip:"it is often alleged that since Iran harbors the desire to “destroy” Israel, it must not be allowed to have the bomb. Ahmadinejad has gone blue in the face denouncing the immorality of any mass extermination of innocent civilians, but has been unable to get a hearing in the English-language press. Moreover, the presidency is a very weak post in Iran, and the president is not commander of the armed forces and has no control over nuclear policy"

snip: "in November of 2003 the IAEA formally announced that it could find no proof of such a weapons program. The U.S. reaction was a blustery incredulity, which is not actually an argument or proof in its own right, however good U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton is at bunching his eyebrows and glaring."
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-19-06 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. Ahmedinejad has a messianic trait in him
just like the monkey.

i've read numerous reports about the supposed religio-fundamentalist that Admedinejad is. in fact, i get the feeling the MSM just loves it this way, for it makes it easier for them to portray Admedinejad as a stereotypical muslim fanatic.

now if only someone in the fucking MSM would do similar reports on the monkey's apocalyptic predelictions....
(not holding my breath)
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