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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:41 PM
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Kristof: The God Gulf
The God Gulf
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Religion may preach peace and tolerance, yet it's hard to think of anything that — because of human malpractice — has been more linked to violence and malice around the world. And now as we enter a new campaign year, it's time to brace ourselves for a new round of religious warfare and hypocrisy at home.

America is riven today by a "God gulf" of distrust, dividing churchgoing Republicans from relatively secular Democrats. A new Great Awakening is sweeping the country, with Americans increasingly telling pollsters that they believe in prayer and miracles, while only 28 percent say they believe in evolution. All this is good news for Bush Republicans, who are in tune with heartland religious values, and bad news for Dean Democrats who don't know John from Job.

So expect Republicans to wage religious warfare by trotting out God as the new elephant in the race, and some Democrats to respond with hypocrisy, by affecting deep religious convictions. This campaign could end up as a tug of war over Jesus.

Over the holidays, Vice President Dick Cheney's Christmas card symbolized all that troubles me about the way politicians treat faith — not as a source for spiritual improvement, but as a pedestal to strut upon. Mr. Cheney's card is dominated by a quotation by Benjamin Franklin: "And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"

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The God Gulf

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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:55 PM
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1. Pitiful..............
nothing is beneath the GOP, nothing. Parading God around (real or imaginary) for their benefit is about as low as a political party can sink. The right wing assholes never cease to create new lows for moral standards........yet a majority of Americans see nothing wrong with this? These "good Christians" believe it's within their rights to USE God as political leverage? They can call Democrats every name they will, but it is the Democratic Party that most resembles the ways and teachings of Jesus.
I'm an agnostic, but I hope there really is a God; a God that doesn't appreciate using it's name to win political elections, a God that will one day make these pitiful bastards pay for their sins.
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:00 AM
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2. Man was I disillusioned
You mean that only 28% of Americans believe in evolution. I cannot believe that at least 8 in 10 people know that evolution is real. It is no theory. It is science. I know the freepers could not stand such a statement, but science is science. What a screwed up educational system we have.

I just find it hard to believe that so many people believe in creationism, but maybe it is true. Good grief.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Science..............
and knowledge in general, are the bane of religions. Christianity since it's inception, has taken a very low view of Science for the only reason that it challenges their authority. This is why Republicans like to keep people uninformed and ignorant, it fits perfectly into their plan of controlling the sheepish masses.
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DarkSim Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Science2.......
yeah i cannot agree more completely. The Republicans do use ignorance and hard on stupidity to get what they want.

If only the general public were more smart.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. This is something of a misrepresentation..
The best of Christian theologians never took a dim view of science.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Since it's not true that 72% of Ameircans are fundamentalists
the figure about 28% believing in evolution sounds low.

When I was in high school in the 1960s in Minnesota (a town where almost everyone was either Lutheran or Catholic), we studied evolution, and no one raised a fuss.

My father was a Lutheran pastor, and his comment was, "You don't study science out of the Bible or pray out of a science textbook."

There was one kid in my class who was a Jehovah's Witness, and his hobby horse was being anti-evolution. Whenever we had to give reports in science classes, even in ninth grade physical science, this kid would give an anti-evolution diatribe.

The rest of us just rolled our eyes.

I wonder if, in the intervening years, the fundies have taken over the school boards and banned the teaching of evolution in their districts, so that even students who aren't religious don't learn about it.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. This is the aim of the promoters of "Intelligent Design Theory"
Lydia says;

"I wonder if, in the intervening years, the fundies have taken over the school boards and banned the teaching of evolution in their districts, so that even students who aren't religious don't learn about it."

It seems to me that Ralph Reed (the darling of Pat Robertson from a few years back) promoted this exact concept. "Stealth Politics" Take over the City Councils and School Boards to push the agenda of the extreme right.

Teach Creationism as a way to scientifically dumb down the populace. They consequently have poor critical thinking skills and a strong predilection towards the idea of an omnipotent creator. They then buy into the Genesis/6 day creation myth, buy into the accompianing story of Adam and Eve, the fall etc and are easily sold just about any bill of goods you want. The age of enlightenment becomes a distant memory.

"Evolution is both fact AND theory. Creationism is neither"
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Jesus could turn water into wine
But he'd have an awful hard time turning Bush's economic policies into prosperity.
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DarkSim Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fundies.
yeah... i think politicians do go wayy too far with all this religion nowadays.

i think its against christian (or most any religions) morals and teachings to use christianity (or any other religion) as an excuse to win an election or to wage a war.

what a bummer all this is turning into...
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. HA! ...says Dean's a phony and 'appallingly ignorant'
Kristof knows a phony when he sees one:

"...Meanwhile, Howard Dean is grasping for faith in a way that is just as tasteless as Mr. Cheney's Christmas card. Dr. Dean bragged to reporters that he knows much about the Bible — and proceeded to say that his favorite New Testament book is Job. Anyone who cites Job as a New Testament book should be scolded not just for religious phoniness but also for appalling ignorance of Western civilization — on a par with Mr. Bush's calling Greeks "Grecians."
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dfitzsim Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. What the repugs have done is
divert the attention of faithful. They get them to focus on symbols of religion rather than the actual values of their religion. They argue that the dems and "them liberal judges" are taking God out of government because they won't let us put a two ton statue of the ten commandments in the town hall. Meanwhile, the Repugs cut compassion out of government every chance they get. Screw the poor, help the wealthy. The least among us are simply lazy and deserve to be poor!

The values of the New Testament are essentially about compassion. Christians need to recapture their God.

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