Uh Oh--Is Dean A Closet Atheist?

[Torgo4]

This weird for several reasons:
1. Though and empiricist, Hume wasn't an atheist,
2. Rooney is Anti-everything,
3. Clark, who taught philosophy, (also?) told Matthews that "He got alot out of Hume!"

Let the corporate whore media smearing begin! Expect more in the future.

ANDY ROONEY: Britney Spears and Howard Dean
Published "Friday
Tribune Media Services
(TMS) - Some days it's difficult for a writer to choose a subject from all the possibilities.
My wheelchair-bound college roommate, Bob Ruthman, called this morning to suggest a topic for a column. He said, "Room, I know you don't have a dirty mind, but I just read where Britney Spears got married Saturday morning and had it annulled Monday. Why don't you write a column about what happened Saturday night?"
Thanks, Room. I don't think so. Some ideas are easy to reject as subjects for a column.
On the other hand, I heard Chris Matthews, who is bright but too loud, quote Howard Dean as saying that David Hume, the 18th Century Scottish writer, was his favorite philosopher. This caught my attention because in college, Hume was one of my favorites and it struck me as a better idea for a column than Britney Spears.
I'll bet Dean would be pleased if not too much was said about his comment and also pleased if people who heard it didn't look into what Hume actually believed, or didn't believe. Most of my college philosophy has gone the way of a lot of information I once had in my brain, but I do remember Hume was known at the time as an empiricist. An empiricist believes only in what can be proven through practical experience and knowledge. Empiricism would eliminate things like ghosts, the paranormal, communication with the dead, astrology, levitation, mind reading, life-after-death and virgin births. Too many Americans believe in one or more of these for any candidate to proclaim that he thought, as David Hume did, that they were all nonsense. Hume was an atheist and it would be political suicide for a candidate to say he was an atheist. "Look hard at the world," Hume said, "and see if it is the work of an all-powerful, all-competent architect."
Howard Dean may admire Hume but has not said he is also an atheist. Most atheists don't, of course. Closet atheism is rampant in America. "I'm a New Englander," Dean said, "so I'm not used to wearing religion on my sleeve ..." No matter what they believe, most candidates and office-holders, such as presidents, feel obliged to be photographed coming out of church once in a while. I liked a lot of things about Bill Clinton - mostly how smart he was - but I was put off shortly after the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke to see him leaving church holding Hillary with his right hand and a bible with his left. Being religious is one thing; using it for political advantage is another.
Joseph Lieberman probably isn't any more interested in calling attention to his specific religious beliefs than Howard Dean. We are grown up enough in America now to accept a Jew as President, but Lieberman once said he spent an hour a day reading the Torah. I don't know whether Americans are ready for anyone that religious - no matter what the religion. It's interesting to note, too, that if Dean were elected President, we'd have our first Jewish first lady.
The landing on Mars could bring up another religious issue. Scientists are trying to determine whether there is or was life on Mars. It seems unlikely to me - I suspect Mars is just another big dead rock like the Moon - but what do I know? The interesting question is what kind of life there would be if there were life on Mars. Would "life" mean human beings? Have they been building spacecraft, trying to get to Earth to find out if there's life here? Would Martians be smarter, dumber, or of equal intelligence to us? Would Martians believe in God? Would God believe in Martians? Is their God the same as the Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist God? Would Martians accept Jesus Christ as the son of their God, or resent Christ because he was born so far away on a foreign planet and reject him?
Maybe I should have taken Room's advice and written about Britney Spears


:wtf:

[vi5]

1. That's the only surefire way ANYONE would get my vote....

I would campaign for, donate to, and undoubtedly vote for any politician who was public about their atheism.

[Longhorn79]

8. Why is faith wrong?

For the purpose of debate, what is so wrong with a religious lifestyle? I understand that church and state should definitely remain separate, but as a personal MO, it's not exactly a bad thing to live by the doctrines encouraged by most religions.

P.S. Hello, I'm new.

[aquart]

9. Uh huh. What would those doctrines be?

[Skittles]

15. WHERE exactly did vi5 say faith is WRONG ???

stop being such a reactionary and welcome to the DU.

[jonnyblitz]

27. the question is, why is atheism wrong?

and why does it have to be "either , or"?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. Hello, I have a link for you.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Like it?

[jonnyblitz]

26. me too!

:toast:

[Nomad559]

2. Dean Is not an Atheist

Dean

“I’m still learning a lot about faith and the South and how important it is,” Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said as he flew here Friday night, predicting he would mention God more and more in the coming weeks.

“It doesn’t make me more religious or less religious than I was before, but it means that I’m willing to talk about it in different ways.”

Dean recently told an audience in Iowa that he prays daily. On the plane, he declined to detail his prayer ritual, but described how a 2002 trip to Israel deepened his understanding of the connections between Judaism and Christianity.

He named Job as his favorite New Testament book, then later corrected himself, noting that it is in the Old Testament.

[w13rd0]

4. They wouldn't want to ask me about...

..."my favorite book of the New Testament"...

I'd respond, "Any of the books not written by that opportunist fraud Saul." Think that might frighten them? I'm not frightened by Dean's faith, whether he adheres to one or not, he keeps it to himself for the most part and doesn't try to force feed people with it. That's something I tend to like.

[aquart]

10. Oh, you, too?

I think of him as a man who saw dead Elvis in the supermarket and sold the story to the tabloids.

[kalian]

3. About LIEberman....

yeah, he might read the Torah for an hour a day...but currently, the
chimp in chief and his staff hold BIBLE SESSIONS in the White House.
And it was reported in a Times editorial not too long ago, that
shrub "falls on his knees in prayer" in the Oval Office...in order
to "receive guidance"... :wtf:

I still believe that religion AND government should be VERY WELL
seperated.

[Torgo4]

5. Whoops! Here's Link!

http://www.beaufortgazette.com/24hour/opinions/story/1109375p-7741206c.html

Hey--Yer preachin' to the choir!

:think:

[RUexperienced]

6. We will find out if Dean is an athiest when he starts campaigning in NY

We know at least he will stop doing the Jesus thing.

[ixion]

7. who cares?

There's a little thing called freedom of religion, which includes lack of religion.

[Torgo4]

12. Hey Folks! I Didn't Infuse Presidential Politics with the Jesus thing!

Nice to know there's a handful of bloggers that would vote for a professed atheist, which Dean clearly ain't.
But....Dean is running for President of US, not ACLU. Hard to WIN in the most pious, self-righteous Xtian country, if you don't bow/yield/kneel at the PC altar. We saw what mainstream media did to Gore over his alleged "lying!" Wait until the Karl Rove machine starts flogging this issue.

Just a harbinger of things to come.


O8) :evilfrown: :evilgrin:

[aquart]

11. Why are you looking in Mr. Dean's closet?

I'm suddenly reminded of the subpoena that authorized a search of the Clintons' underwear drawers.

Religion is, and should be, a private and personal experience.

Do you think our Founding Fathers intended religion to be a subject of public inquisition?

Obviously, Mr. Dean is not a religious bigot. Why do you need to know more than that?

[Torgo4]

13. Not a what?

Obviously, Mr. Dean is not a religious bigot.

How the f--- do you know that?
Mind reading again are we?

:tinfoilhat:

I'm an atheist and I couldn't care less! As long as he doesn't pass laws that hamstrung human progress and pusuit of happiness with any superstitious crap, good for him!


Call this a friendly "heads up" that the Dean and Clark folks ignore at there peril.



:toast:

[Skittles]

14. I wish candidates would refuse to discuss their faith or lack of faith

it is really no one's business

19. Jesus agrees with you

straight from Matthew 6

1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
4
so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
5
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
7
In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.

[religiousleft]

23. "I'm a New Englander," Dean said, "so I'm not used to wearing religion on

Governor Dean belongs to a Congregation of the United Church of Christ, though I have no information about his personal piety or practice. It would be consistent with that communities teaching that they would be reluctant to make public displays of their religious fervor, except for a certain sternness of lifestyle and penchant for personal modesty. The UCC's historical roots are in Puritanism and separatism, though they have strayed far form the kind of legalistic behavior which most people associate with the Puritans. On the other hand they are the church that built the New England intellectual and social infrastructure (compulsory public education, Harvard, Yale) in the 1800's they ordained the first woman into the American Clergy they are the only "mainstream" Protestant Church that allows Homosexuals to participate in all areas of ministry without discrimination.

[Torgo4]

25. Ahhhh....Matthew 6----Eeeeeeexcellent Smithers..

One of my favorite sections from NT.

[wabeewoman]

16. I never understood the reason for people

to discuss their religion all the time unless you're a minister. It always seemed to me the ones who talked religion the most lived it the least. The right-wing "Christian" movement has some of the most self-rightous, judgemental and just plain mean people I've ever seen. I'm much more concerned that Dean make decisions based on beliefs
that "only can be proven through practical experience and knowledge" than the way bush does it-by political whim catering to religious whackos.

[Martin Eden]

17. The right wing Christian movement = FECES

Fundamentalist
Evangelical
Christians
Extrremely
Sanctimonious

I wish I could take credit for this acronym, but I saw it in another forum.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. It was me! And it was "Exceedingly".

Although "Extremely" sounds better. :toast:

It was in the Lounge, probably more than a month ago. Alas, I do not have search capabilities.

[Martin Eden]

30. KUDOS to you!

Sorry I didn't remember the 'E' word correctly.

I like exceedingly better.

[religiousleft]

24. Lets talk:

Religion-Politics-Sex...what's left to talk about?

[pasadenaboy]

18. If Jimmy Carter says he's a good Christian,

that's good enough for me.

[hatrack]

20. Dean an athetist? God forbid!!

No, wait, that's not quite it . . .

21. ever hear that Luis Bunuel quote???

"Thank god, I'm an atheist"

[wonderwhy]

22. kiss-of-death

Usually doesn't help a politician's image much
to be a lout, a swindler, a womanizer, or
a hypocrite. Being a war criminal might be a
problem, too. But history shows, all of those
sins are redeemable. To be an atheist, on the other hand,
is not. I once heard Rush call atheists "cowards."
Cowards? I didn't follow the logic. But then how
would I know? It takes a drug addict like Rush to be
an expert on cowardice.