What Bush and others don't understand about education.

[HEFFA]

http://www.edweek.org/ew/newstory.cfm?slug=25Vollmer.h21


:think:

[NC_Nurse]

1. That was wonderful!

Thanks for posting!

[NC_Nurse]

2. And BTW

Welcome to DU!:)

:hi:

[madrchsod]

3. good story

i`m giving this to a teacher friend----welcome

[HEFFA]

4. I'm glad I finally made it to this party -- Thanks.

:grouphug:

[NEOBuckeye]

5. AWESOME!

If this guy can see the light, then maybe there's some hope for others with whom he once shared the "run school like a business" mentality. If GE, Wal*Mart and McDonalds suddenly had to deal with the same problems in their everyday operations, they'd shut down within a week.


This article should be spread far and wide.

[Momgonepostal]

6. I loved that! nt

[jyund123]

7. I dunno...

This guy is saying we can't control the "raw materials"?
(And I hate using "raw materials" to describe any human being)

I'm thinking there are actually a lot of variables we do control.
I don't think all teachers should be teaching for example.
I think a lot of text books are all gloss and lacking in substance.
I think a lot of money is being poured into administration and special programs that never gets to the kids in the classroom.

But if we ever needed public education to work, its right now.
If there is anything that can make that happen, I'm all for it.

BTW, I didn't see where the article said anything about Bush's policies. What are his policies, anyhow?

[HEFFA]

8. The author's point, as I understand it, is that schools in this country

can't be run on a "business model." For example, your concerns about the efficiency and cost/benefit analysis (P.S. can you provide an example of the kinds of programs that are costing lots but not getting to kids or producing little?) of schools illuminates the notion that controlling certain variables and measuring output will somehow tell us how well schools are functioning. The author uses an analogy to illustrate the weakness of these assumptions. Schools aren't factories, and they can't be operated with the factory mindset.

As to the question of Bush's educational policies, I can only say that I'm really surprised to hear that you don't know about (or haven't heard about) the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), commonly referred to as No Child Left Behind (NCLB). What Bush wants the country to believe is that more testing will mean that schools and students will be forced to improve (note the conspicuous use of force in everything that the current regime tries to accomplish?). Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that. Maybe it would be nice if it did, but it just doesn't. I could go on and on, but I feel that it would be doing you a disservice and denying you the opportunity to read and learn about Bush's misdirected educational policies all on your own :think:

Oh yeah, and one more thing. I just hope that, as I am a member of the NEA, none of these comments are misconstrued to mean that I am a terrorist or enemy combatant of the state (as Secretary of Education Rod Paige claimed of the NEA recently). I am just a humble civil servant who dares to have an opinion and think for myself. I'm just glad that I still get to teach about life in America during the past, when those things were accepted and valued.

[jyund123]

9. Our kids deserve the best education possible

I do think it is important to save public education in this country, but I don't believe that putting schools and teachers above public scrutiny is the answer. Students are tested to measure their progress, so I don't see how testing schools becomes a bad idea.

I have no concerns about efficiency and cost/benefit analysis so I don't know how to answer your first question. As long as the kids get a chance to learn, I'm happy.

As far as the money reaching the kids, I only have two anecdotal evidence. My mother spent her whole life in education, and she would regularly complain that Federal dollars required so much of her time to obtain and manage, that the process took more out of her than she could ever get back to the kids. Since her time translates into your tax dollars, this was money that wasn't getting to the kids. My other example would be that $3 million corruption scandal in Miami. I don't think the kids are getting any of that money. I would go into this further, but I want to encourage your independant research on this issue.

I appreciate your passion on the issue, but you don't seem very informed.

And no, I don't think you are a terrorist. I heard about this remark, and it was a remarkably stupid and offensive thing for Paige to say.

[newyawker99]

10. jyund123!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[CheshireCat]

11. As someone who taught

high school and junior college for 15 years, I welcome this story.

Education is NOT a business and cannot be run successfully as a business. Put some of these "business Leaders" in a classroom for a few weeks and watch their opinions change.

Teaching is one of the most important jobs in American. I admire any teacher who really cares about whether or not their students learn and progress.

I burnt out. Now I am a programmer and web developer. There is never a spare minute on the job now, but it still feels like I'm on vacation when I compare it to teaching.

A toast to all teachers! May you never burn out. I hope that one day I will be able to join your ranks again.

[jyund123]

12. yes!

we got a lot good people out there.

[jyund123]

13. ...

I did look at some of the other stuff that Vollmer wrote.
He is big on change coming from the community ( as opposed to be isolated within the schools).

So you can have a pretty big impact on education even if you aren't in a classroom. If you have figured out things that work, you are a big part of getting that back into the classroom.

note:
(I didn't see a lot of his specific suggestions, but he was pretty big on making the school day longer.- I am a little undecided on this.)

[CheshireCat]

14. i don't think a longer school day is the answer.

By 3:30 pm, most kids are too burnt out to absorb new material. Forcing them to stay longer is not the answer. Having schools open after hours with teachers and/or peer tutors present to help students with homework could help. This should be optional.

I think that changing the time at which school starts (for middle and high schoolers) could make a difference. I have read many studies that say that durng the teenage years, the biological clock is set to wake up later. A teenager's cognitive abilities are not very good early in the morning. Some researchers suggest moving the start time for grades 7-12 to later in the morning.

[jyund123]

15. right.

plus I think that sort of thing is going to use up a lot more teachers.

So Bush's plan is more testing. What does Kerry plan on doing?

[HEFFA]

16. Unfortunately, the issue has been politicized now, and Kerry is unlikely

to change NCLB in significant ways. Let's face it; for any politician to stand up now and say that it is wrong would open them up to limitless criticism from the simple minded press. The issue is a complex one, and it requires strong and sensible leadership. I'm hoping that Kerry is the guy to provide that leadership, but I know that Bush is incapable of it.

In response to your previous post, jyund123, I have to note that for you to say that I'm uninformed on this issue is a little silly, especially since you admitted your own lack of knowledge about the existence of the national legislation that inspired my original post. I am a public school teacher. I work with high school students every day (except today....SNOW!). This issue affects my profession and livelihood, as well as all of my students. I think it's safe to say that I'm informed.

The one advantage, as you see it, is that this program calls for more testing. Of course, that is the program's single biggest flaw. As any teacher could tell you, and countless studies confirm, there is no single measure (such as a standardized test) that can be used to reliably assess the learning or growth of all children. Similarly, more time testing = less time learning. I'm not suggesting that it has no appropriate use, but this legislation severely changes the nature of how we use testing and how we use the results. Next year, my school district will mandate testing for nearly all grades K-12. In order to comply with state mandated testing dates already in place, I have just recently met with two of my five classes for the second time in three weeks (we also had a two-day workshop factored in there -- which we spent developing new assessments to meet state and local demands). The increased time and the added expense of these testing programs are unnecessarily increasing the burdens on districts all over the country. Of course, the Grand Wizard of education himself and resident Thief in Chief, George W. is strangely not backing up his promises to schools (or children) by providing the funds for the implementation of these programs. The weight of that burden falls squarely on the shoulders of local communities, which, I might add, are already struggling.

Please don't misinterpret my tone. I don't want for my response to sound adversarial. You correctly noted my passion for this issue. I also think it's important that people start talking about this issue, and that it becomes a more prominent issue in the presidential campaign.

Check out this quick read: http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0403/lastbell.html

It's also helpful in illustrating the changing nature of education at all levels.

You might also enjoy:
http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0402/lastbell.html