'It Has To Be Al Qaeda'

[windansea]

An expert on Basque history and culture discusses his doubts about whether ETA could have been behind Thursday’s train attacks—and why any involvement would mean the end of the separatist group

WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Brian Braiker
Newsweek
Updated: 6:44 p.m. ET March 12, 2004March 12 -

What started off as a typical weekday commute to work ended in a hell of twisted metal, shattered glass and broken bodies Thursday morning. Exactly 911 days after September 11, 2001, Spain was rocked by the biggest terrorist attack on European soil since World War II: 10 synchronized bombs ripped through commuter trains outside Madrid, killing at least 199 people and wounding 1,400 others. No one claimed responsibility for the blasts, but suspicions turned instantly toward the Basque separatist group known as ETA. There were also some suggestions that Islamic terrorists may have been carried out the attacks because Spain supported Washington in the Iraq war.


The ETA, which stands for Euskadi Ta Askatasuna and means "Basque Homeland and Freedom," today took the unusual step of denying any involvement. But it is little surprise that many Spaniards still blame them: the underground group has been committing acts of terror violence in its campaign for a separate Basque state in north-western Spain since 1968. Not counting Thursday’s attack, it has been estimated that ETA violence has claimed the lives of about 800 people in the struggle for autonomy. Today many Basques support the idea of independence, but ETA remains a fringe group that wins headlines—but little sympathy—with every strike, says Joseba Zulaika, director of the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nevada in Reno. Despite enjoying a good deal of autonomy within Spain, Basque separatists have attempted to assassinate Spain's King Juan Carlos as well as Jose Maria Aznar, then leader of the conservative Popular Party, now Spain's outgoing prime minister. On September 16, 1998, ETA declared a "unilateral and indefinite" cease-fire, and engaged in the first direct talks with the Spanish government in 10 years. The talks quickly failed, however, and the ceasefire was called off a year later. Violence once again became their means of negotiation.

Zulaika spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about Thursday’s tragic bombing. Himself a native of Spain’s Basque country, Zulaika says he harbors no sympathy for the ETA. But, he adds, this week’s attack was on a scale so unprecedented even in the ETA’s own blood-soaked history that he is not convinced the group is responsible. But if they are in any way connected to this week’s terrorist attack, he predicts the “death” of the fringe nationalist group.

Excerpts:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4517018/

[jpgray]

1. The Popular Party may be in serious trouble. (nt)

[windansea]

2. time will tell n/t

[windansea]

3. burp n/t

[TinaTyson]

4. Problem with the logic is.

A similar plan was thwarted before so that line of argument makes no sense. Was the previous plan intended to be thwarted? Are they saying that the previous attack was al Qaeda also?

I'm not arguing for either case just pointing out a huge hole in that part of the logic.

Thursday, 11 March, 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500452.stm
If it is confirmed as Eta's work, it would be their deadliest attack in more than three decades of armed struggle for independence.

Last month, two Basques suspected of being Eta members were arrested as they headed to Madrid in a truck laden with explosives.

Spanish police said they were arrested about 140km outside the city with 500kg of explosives hidden in the vehicle.

And last December, Spanish authorities said they foiled a Basque separatist plot to blow up a train at a Madrid rail station.



ETA: Key events
MAIN ETA ATTACKS
July 2003: Bomb attacks in Alicante and Benidorm, 13 injured. Further explosion at Santander airport days later
Jan, Feb 2000: Car bombs explode in Madrid and the Basque capital Vitoria
June 1998: Car bomb kills Popular Party councillor Manuel Zamarreno
July 1997: ETA kidnaps and kills Basque councillor Miguel Angel Blanco
June 1987: 21 shoppers are killed in an attack on a Barcelona supermarket
1980: In ETA's bloodiest year, 118 people are killed
Dec 1973: Assassination of Prime Minister Admiral Luis Carrero Blanco

[LoneStarLiberal]

7. Some More On ETA and Responsibility

There's something I've been discussing with some friends who are also involved in risk and security or intelligence that I've only heard in one other media arena: This may have been the work of an ETA splinter. There's been lots done with looking at ETA and the IRA in comparative context and the IRA has had more than its share of splinter groups that have committed horrible atrocities in the name of destabilizing the current situation in order to polarize things and drive more moderate Republicans into the militant camp; the Continuity Army Council is the best example of this.

Looking at your partial timeline or a more in-depth timeline provides a good example of the median mainstream ETA attack: Car bombs and backpack bombs used to assasinate individuals that also kill civilians who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Something else that you don't hear discussed in the mainstream media is that when people talk about specific bombing techniques they usually leave the most important piece of information unspoken: Many of these groups' "engineers" (aka bomb makers) learn their craft from the same pool of sources. By this time, it's usually second or third generation handed-down information from an original source who learned it in camp in North Africa or Lebanon. We know for example that some of the IRA's engineers learned their craft in camps in Libya and the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. We also know that there was at least one incident of the IRA bomb makers sharing their expertise with ETA members who probably went on to disseminate these techniques within ETA, hence the commonality of the car bomb within the operations of both organizations.

I'd really like to know if the Moroccans and Indians they arrested today picked their materials and bomb methods based on the knowledge that ETA uses the same things. If so, that's a pretty revealing statement about the sophistication on the planning end of al-Qaeda operations.

[TinaTyson]

5. Another obvious problem is the headline itself.

What an awful headline. The person isn't expressing the definitiveness the headline suggests. Here is the full sentence.

"So that’s why I tend to believe it has to be Al Qaeda"

It is amazing the kind of trash that passes the test in the American press but that is another subject entirely. :)

[windansea]

6. some people want it to be Al Queda

and some the ETA...whoever it was are total kooks

I just feel sorry for the innocent people who lost their lives or got their legs blown off

[0007]

9. I bet you are!!

[windansea]

10. WTF.....??

:wtf:

[dax]

8. Terrorism is war by the poor, war is terrorism by the rich on the poor

It is horrible that they cannot resolve these issues in Spain, but to put it in perspective-800 dead since 1968 to try and impose one's power, vis 500,000 Iraqi children dead from sanctions, then 10,000 plus since the war started, to impose US power on them. Or 200,000 Haitians dead from US sanctions to try and starve Aristide before they took him out, and probably 800 or more dead in just the last week. I get confused sometimes about who the real terrorists are-its all wrong.

[windansea]

11. get a clue

this is not an opportunity for your agenda

[abracadabra]

16. I agree with Dax

you got it right Dax

it doesn't belittle one loss to compare it to other even greater losses-

and also, Terrorism is a stupid word to use-But EVEN more stupid than saying terror-ism
is the phrase " WAR on TERROR " !!!
the very phrase makes no sense and is contradictory-
it's like war on war
or terror on terror
what about drugs on drugs?

makes sense to someone with an IQ of 91


always some sort of 'ism' = bad guys

sensless deaths are sensless-
idiot leaders aren't leaders

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. You get a clue. Here's one: Operation Northwoods...

<http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html>

<http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html>

<http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html>

[tlcandie]

26. Dax .. thanks!! Makes the most sense and simple at that than

anything else I've ever heard! It says what I feel regarding those who are continually put down and left without versus those who have much and act as if those without do not matter!

[daleo]

12. The Iraqi interim constitution was signed this week

I don't know that I have seen anyone make that connection yet. Some group may have wanted to send a message by the correspondence of the two events (constitution signing and Spanish bombing). ETA would have no reason, so that leaves AQ or some other group connected with the Iraqi resistance.

I think ETA is a red herring, and we won't hear that theory much more after the Spanish elections, regardless of who wins. If Anzar's party wins, they can drop the ETA smokescreen, and start playing up a "heroic sacrifice during the resistance to Islamic terrorism" angle. If the anti-invasion party wins, they can play up a version of "I told you so".

I sometimes think we latch on to the "significant dates and number's" idea too much, but the 9-11, 311, 911+leap days thing seems hard to ignore.

[Ksec]

13. AlQaeda now takes responsibility

[nolabels]

14. I don't believe shit from any side just about now

I just so inhuman how all this slime plays this like a political football, don't really want or have the truth but need to jockey for position.

Your protest against a bombing campaign on poor (literally or figural) was placed in file as a just another focus group, damn proud lot, to be sure


Thousands fill the central Cibeles square and the main Gran Via street in Madrid during a demonstration to protest the train bombings.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/12/spain.blasts/index.html

Bombs were Spanish-made explosives
Millions pack Madrid's streets

Saturday, March 13, 2004 Posted: 2:01 AM EST (0701 GMT)

Thousands fill the central Cibeles square and the main Gran Via street in Madrid during a demonstration to protest the train bombings.


MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- As investigators learned more about the bombs that ripped through trains killing and maiming, millions of people across Spain gathered in chilly rain to protest the terror attacks and mourn the victims Friday.

"It seems like the sky is crying," said one woman.

Up to 2.3 million people took to the streets of the Spanish capital to mourn the 199 dead and 1,450 wounded.

Nationwide, officials estimate between 8 million and 12 million people joined in the street protests against the bombings.

Suspicion for the coordinated terror attacks has fallen on Basque separatist group ETA and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorist network.

The 10 backpack bombs were carried aboard four trains and detonated almost simultaneously at three stations Thursday
(snip)

[NV1962]

15. It's pretty much a settled issue now: it *was* an Al Q'aida type attack

The "hot" issue right now in Spain -- just hours away from the general elections -- is that Government kept the "ETA did it" meme alive in spite of knowing damn well that evidence pointed elsewhere.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Please explain what you mean by an "Al Qaeda type attack"...

...I wasn't aware that they had a certain attack-signature.

[Grand Vizier]

18. "Please explain what you mean by an "Al Qaeda type attack"..."

Al Qa'eda's previous attacks have all had a certain level of sophistication: multiple targets, attacked at the same time, etc. ETA's usual method is to attack Spanish police, judges, politicians, newspapers/media etc. in much smaller, targeted attacks.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. So, does the attack on the USS Cole qualify as a "sophisticated attack"?..

That was also blamed on Al Qaeda, wasn't it?

Was the 1993 bombing of the WTC an attack on multiple targets?

[Grand Vizier]

23. "So, does the attack on the USS Cole qualify as a "sophisticated attack"?.

It was. To pilot a small motor boat within striking distance of a U.S. Naval Vessel without being a)noticed until the last minute and b)blown out of the water by the .50 calibre machine guns that the Cole had on deck takes no small amount of skill. The pilot of the craft also steered toward the engine room of the Cole, maximizing the damage.

The 1993 bombing was never conclusively pinned on al Qa'eda, IIRC.

[NV1962]

19. "Al Q'aida" doesn't exist

It isn't a single, homogeneous organization - quite unlike (say) IRA, ETA or Shinig Path. It's a patchwork of related organizations and cells. And yes, there are a few "common" traits - but what's "different" in the attacks in Madrid is that it (apparently) wasn't a suicide attack.

But then again, that reinforces the connection with the attacks last year in Casablanca.

Anyway - what I meant is that "Al Q'aida" is grossly oversimplified in newscasting, and that (for example) modus operandi and therefore the adequate (anti-terrorist / counter-terrorist) response can't be (and isn't) homogeneous.

But when the sh*t hits the fan (with political fall-out, as in Madrid) all that secretive stuff bites Government in the ass.

If the PP scores a win today, you can bet that relations will suffer between Madrid and Rabat (not exactly cuddly as it is, mostly due to immigration issues but also a dispute over the cities of Ceuta and Melilla - which prompted the silly "Parsley Island" incident.)

[nolabels]

20. It's the new and improved boogie man

Good call, just want to throw this little excerpt out
http://www.nightmare.org/textfiles/conspiracy/italy.txt

GLADIO: THE SECRET U.S. WAR TO SUBVERT ITALIAN DEMOCRACY

(snip) by Arthur E. Rowse
Provocateurs on the Right

In 1968, the Americans started formal commando training for the gladiators at the clandestine Sardinian NATO base.
Within a few years, 4,000 graduates had been placed in strategic posts. At least 139 arms caches, including some at
carabinieri barracks, were at their disposal. *29 To induce young men to join such a risky venture, the CIA paid high
salaries and promised that if they were killed, their children would be educated at U.S. expense. *30

Tensions began to reach critical mass that same year. While dissidents took to the streets all over the world, in Italy,
takeovers of universities and strikes for higher wages and pensions were overshadowed by a series of bloody political
crimes. The number of terrorist acts reached 147 in 1968, rising to 398 the next year, and to an incredible peak of 2,498
in 1978 before tapering off, largely because of a new law encouraging informers ( penitenti ). *31 Until 1974, the
indiscriminate bombers of the right constituted the main force behind political violence.

The first major explosion occurred in 1969 in Milan's Piazza Fontana; it killed 18 people and injured 90. In this and
numerous other massacres, anarchists proved handy scapegoats for fascist provocateurs seeking to blame the left.
Responding to a phone tip after the Milan massacre, police arrested 150 alleged anarchists and even put some on trial.
But two years later, new evidence led to the indictment of several neofascists and SID officers. Three innocent
anarchists were convicted, but later absolved, while those responsible for the attack emerged unpunished by Italian
justice. *32

Conclusive Gladio links to political violence were found after a plane exploded in flight near Venice in November 1973.
Venetian judge Carlo Mastelloni determined that the Argo-16 aircraft was used to shuttle trainees and munitions
between the U.S. base in Sardinia and Gladio sites in northeast Italy.33 The apogee of right-wing terror came in 1974
with two massacres. One, a bombing at an antifascist rally in Brescia, killed eight and injured 102. The other was an
explosion on the Italicus train near Bologna, killing 12 and wounding 105. At this point, President Giovanni Leone, with
little exaggeration, summed up the situation: With 10,000 armed civilians running around, as usual, I'm president of
shit. *34
(snip)

[klyon]

24. If it was Al Qaeda.....

then what country will Spain attack?

KL

[Flagg]

25. Spain can't do nothing on their own

The socialist party will win the election and won't attck anyone anyway.