Thom Hartmann: Three Cups of Tea for Rick Warren

[babylonsister]

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/19307

Three Cups of Tea for Rick Warren
by Thom Hartmann | December 19, 2008



Rick Warren is providing the invocation for the presidential inauguration. As a pastor whose books have been read by tens of millions of Americans and whose voice is respected by an equal or larger number, he has tremendous influence and power. And as an open homophobe who aggressively works to wound gay people in this country (as well as pretty much anybody else who doesn't believe with his own particular and peculiar recently-invented version of Christian theology) he should be the guy with the bull's-eye on his back for the progressive movement.

But consider that metaphor for a moment. In Pakistan there are entire regions filled with people who not only hate gays but hate Americans as well, regardless of religion. We've tried bombing them (as the Soviets did, and the British before them). Three consecutive Western empires have tried threatening them, starving them, poisoning them, infiltrating them, and overpowering them - all without success.

And then Greg Mortenson came to one of their villages, had three cups of tea with them (a metaphor for hospitality - they nursed him back to health after a mountain climbing injury - and the title of his best-selling book), and now in dozens of these formerly Taliban-controlled villages the people are rejecting the Taliban, embracing modernity, and openly proclaiming themselves as our friends.

His "weapon" for this conversion? He built schools for their children, particularly their previously-banned-from-school girls.

snip//

Barack Obama has learned that lesson, and is applying it in inviting Rick Warren to perform the invocation for his inauguration. In doing so, he is reaching out a hand to those who today are - out of fear and ignorance - pushing away gays the same way their intellectual ancestors pushed away African Americans when anti-miscegenation laws were supported by most of these same "fundamentalist" Christian churches in the 1950s and 1960s.

Joseph Lowry, who is providing the other bookend to the inauguration with the benediction, is the other side of the balance Obama is bringing to this inauguration. Lowry has said, for example, "The same folks who are against progress for black folks are the folks who are against progress for women and gays and farmers and young people and peace activists. We have to understand it's one struggle. This is ONE AMERICA, and the sooner we learn that the more effective our world will be."

And the more effective we will be at changing the hearts and minds of people like Rich Warren and his followers. This is a tremendous first step, and I congratulation Barack Obama on his wisdom, walking metaphorically in Greg Mortenson's shoes to eventually bring the enemies of America's true values of love and tolerance over to our side.
_______

[mopinko]

1. that's what i voted for.

outrage is warranted, but it isn't free. there is a price, out there, and here :-(

i think this IS the right way. there are plenty of laws requiring equal treatment for non-white people. but there are still a lot of hearts and minds out there that are not on the good side of that. and we have that latent fear and hatred to thank for ronald raygun, george bush, and the hunting of bill clinton. we can either learn from that, or find ourselves treading water for 4 years, or 8.
we can keep bombing each other, or we can all walk forward together .

[Cha]

2. Wow, Thom Hartmann!

Nice.friends have been talking about that book at work.

The whole thing makes me sad and the only thing I want out of this is Equal Rights for everybody.

[babylonsister]

3. Me, too!

:fistbump:

[CitizenPatriot]

4. this is exactly

what I was thinking about disarming the enemy...I sure hope it works. One thing is for sure, Warren's followers are pissed. He's associating with baby killers! The hate can not breed so quickly in open air.

NOW let's get Prop 9 overturned.

[babylonsister]

5. Prop 8? Or is 9 a new one? nt

[CitizenPatriot]

6. ha! I typed that by mistake

In another thread, I sarcastically suggested we initiate Prop 9, which would make it illegal for fundys to marry one another. Danger to society and all of that. Inbreeding.

I musta had that Prop 9 on my mind. Sign up for it!

I need a drink:-)

[Cha]

7. You mean Prop 8 ? 'Cause that

one for sure needs Overturning.

[CitizenPatriot]

8. yup. that's the one.

I mis-typed due to an earlier sarcastic post (see above).

Petition to kill Prop 8:

http://www.petitiononline.com/equlity/petition.html

donate to kill Prop 8:

https://secure2.convio.net/laglc/site/Donation2?idb=17784115&df_id=1900&1900.donation=form1


At the urging of church President Thomas Monson, Mormons contributed more than $15 million to fund the deceitful advertising campaign that resulted in a small majority of Californians supporting Prop 8. For each donation of $5 or more at www.InvalidateProp8.org, the Center will send Monson a postcard to let him know a donation was made in his name to fund legal organizations fighting Prop 8 and to fund grass-roots efforts supporting marriage equality.

[Cha]

9. Thanks! That's a real good

one to donate to:bounce:

[eridani]

10. Honoring is not "reaching out"

Meanwhile, consider how agreeable Warren himself chose to be -- how open to dialogue -- after the gay group Soulforce prematurely announced that leaders of Warren's Saddleback church, perhaps including Warren and his wife Kay, had agreed to break bread with gay Christian families on Father's Day:

We did not invite this group and I will not be meeting with them. They invited themselves to draw attention to their cross country publicity stunt. My staff has already told them that neither my wife nor I will meet with them for any discussion or debate.

Bear in mind that the Soulforce families were not asking to speak from the pulpit, or for Warren to publicly embrace them. They wanted a private conversation, to let Warren get to know some real people who were being hurt by his teachings and actions. And yet, not a chance.

Soulforce was traveling, by the way, with a mediator of sorts: gay-affirming pastor Jay Bakker. If Obama is really committed to having all Americans come together, he'll have Jay up there on January 20 too.

http://www.radosh.net/archive/002563.html

[babylonsister]

11. You call it honoring, Hartmann calls it reaching out.

I like his take on this.

[eridani]

12. If Obama wants to reach out, he can have a conference at the White House

Nothing wrong with that at all. Offering a bigot a prominent place at a public ceremony is "honoring," not discussing.

[babylonsister]

14. Then you missed Hartmann's whole point. nt

[eridani]

18. Obama is honoring bigotry, not entering into a dialog with it

I don't often disagree with Hartmann, but I think that he is wrong.

[Stevepol]

13. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar

[GentryDixon]

16. My Mother always told me that.

[Raineyb]

20. Interesting phrase there.

And yet you see flies congregating around rotting flesh and shit. There's not a damn thing sweet about that.

Nevertheless, I understand what Thom is trying to say and will consider it as he's laid it out. I am not a turn the other cheek type myself and I completely understand why there's so much anger out there. Warren's view of America is deadly to any of us on this board for numerous reasons and that vision really ought not be given any legitimacy and a spot during the inauguration certainly will be seen by the man as a spot of honor rather than a mere reaching out and I'd hate to embolden Warren and his ilk to think that their theocratic model is just one of a few legitimate ways of running things when nothing could be further from the truth.

Regards

[prostock69]

15. Thank you for your wonderful post. I couldn't agree more.

Essentially, what Obama is doing is giving the Christian Right (who I will call the American Taliban from this point on because I think it describes them better) a face for the whole world to see (Rick Warren). I bet Dobson is fuming that he wasn't picked..lol. Anyways, I have thought, and still think that this is a brilliant move by Obama, even though so many people have been hurt by his selection, for which I am deeply sorry for your pain. However, in order to change the views of the American Taliban in this country, we cannot isolate them or ignore them. This will make them more stronger which will make their chances of getting one of them (Huckabee, Romney, or Palin) in the White House in 2012 is a very realistic possibility that we all should be worried about.

I truly feel Obama is reaching out to them not to validate their beliefs, but to start a relationship--a discourse regarding the issues we disagree on. They need to understand that their attempts to legislate their beliefs is wrong, which Obama totally agrees with. The more they fight for this legislation, the harder we will push back, which is what the world is seeing now with Obama's pick of Warren. America is pushing back with an enormous force. This is a good thing for the American Taliban in this country to see. It is also good for them to see that our new President will not bend to their needs and wants like Bush did.

I think Obama is more attracted to people who HAVE different views then him: Ayers, Wright, and now Warren. The Republicans tried to implicate Obama as an anti-American because of Rev. Wright. They tried to implicate Obama as a terrorist sympathizer because of his acquaintence with Bill Ayers. and now the most of America is implicating Obama as being insenstive to the gay community and a sympathizer to the American Taliban. I see him as someone who is trying to understand and deal with the problems this country is faced with: bigotry, fearmongering, relgious overreaching, government corruption, etc.

Don't forget that Obama has brilliantly beat the Republican party and every dirty trick they threw at them. By inviting Warren to give the invocation, he is allowing the leader of the American Taliban to bless his presidency which has the followers of the A.T. extremely upset with Warren! They are so scared that their leader will give up his hate and fear of the gay community, along with hate and fear of the nonbelievers (like me) for the common good of our country. It's totally brilliant! My hope is that the A.T. just stops trying to legislate their beliefs. That is all I want. They can believe whatever they want. Just quit trying to make it law.

[Doctor_J]

17. I still have only heard one single gay person weigh in in favor though

that was a caller to hartmann's program. Are the gay DUers who are OK with this?

[SeattleGirl]

19. Good piece.

Thanks for posting.