Glenn Greenwald: Dem leaders out of step with voters on Israel's attack on Gaza

[babylonsister]

Dem leaders out of step with voters on Israel's attack on Gaza

January 3, 2009

BY GLEN GREENWALD


A new Rasmussen Reports poll -- the first to survey American public opinion specifically regarding the Israeli attack on Gaza -- strongly bolsters the severe disconnect between American public opinion on U.S. policy toward Israel and the consensus views expressed by America's political leadership.

Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally "are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip" (44 percent to 41 percent, with 15 percent undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive -- by a 24-point margin. By stark contrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62 percent to 27 percent).

It's not at all surprising that Republican leaders -- from Dick Cheney and John Bolton to virtually all appendages of the right-wing noise machine -- are unquestioning supporters of the Israeli attack. After all, they're expressing the core ideology of the overwhelming majority of their voters and audience.

Much more notable is the fact that Democratic leaders -- including Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi -- are just as lock step in their blind, uncritical support for the Israeli attack, in their absolute refusal to utter a word of criticism of, or even reservations about, Israeli actions.

While some Democratic politicians who are marginalized by the party's leadership are willing to express the views that Democratic voters overwhelmingly embrace, the suffocating, fully bipartisan orthodoxy which typically predominates in America when it comes to Israel is in full force with this latest conflict.

Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice?


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http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/1360270,CST-EDT-open03b.article

[The Magistrate]

1. Mr. Greenwald, Ma'am, Ignores Other Elements Of That poll

Which the political figures he refers to understand perfectly.

When the question, who is to blame for the trouble, 'Israel' or 'the Palestinians', was asked, fifty-five percent of respondents answered 'the Palestinians'; thirteen percent answered 'Israel', and thirty-two percent answered 'unsure'. When persons expressing an opinion break four to one in a certain direction, there can be no question, to a professional politician, where the country is on the matter. Should the issue be pressed to crystalize, it is the four to one division that voters would press towards, and reflect. A sizeable number of people do not much like what Israel is doing at present, but do not consider Israel to blame for the situation in which it is doing it. Their attitude to statements by politicians representing them, let alone actions by the U.S., government, that seem to favor the side they blame for the situation in the first place, will be based on their view of the fundamentals of the situation, not the present atmospherics. That is how popular opinion works.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. You seem to say they understand it's complicated, but they make simplistic statements

which purely express support for Israel and what it chooses to do. This is a poor thing for any politician, especially senior ones, to do.

If they know that many people (though a minority of Democratic supporters - 47%) blame Hamas for the situation, but that many (a majority of Demcratic supporters) think that Israel should have acted differently, then they could say so. Instead, their support for Israel and its actions seems uncritical, eg:

"When Israel is attacked, the United States must continue to stand strongly with its friend and democratic ally."

According to Pelosi, "Peace between Israelis and Palestinians cannot result from daily barrages of rocket and mortar fire from Hamas-controlled Gaza. Hamas and its supporters must understand that Gaza cannot and will not be allowed to be a sanctuary for attacks on Israel."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3645321,00.html

"I strongly support Israel's right to defend its citizens against rocket and mortar attacks from Hamas-controlled Gaza," Reid said in a statement. "Hamas' failure to stop these attacks only exacerbates the humanitarian situation for the residents of Gaza and undermines efforts to attain peace and security in the region."

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/us-blames-hamas-middle-east/story.aspx?guid={7AA24AD2-2542-4AD9-B39F-B812E9D27BDA}

It looks like a knee-jerk "support Israel" attitude to me.

[The Magistrate]

4. Both Those Statements, Sir, Concentrate On the Underlying Factors

Both concentrate on the sentiment that Hamas has been engaged in attacks on Israel and has provoke the present operation. They appeal to the basic sentiment of the populace on the fundamentals of the question. Even people who consider both sides more or less to blame will find little to quarrel with in the basic sentiments expressed. The group who considers Israel primarily to blame is too small a proportion to bother with in a business based on mass appeal.

My own view of the matter is that Israel has the right to do what it is doing, but that it is not going to work well and so is not the right thing for Israel to do. These statements coming from Democratic legislative leaders do not bother me. Statements on the lines it seems some would like, that Israel is doing unvarnished wrong, and U.S. support should be withdrawn from that country, would bother me a bit, and would certainly not reflect the preponderant sentiment of the people in the United States.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Which is why I regard them as simplistic, Sir; more so than the typical Democratic voter

who are capable of saying "Hamas may be responsible, but Israel shouldn't be bombing". Reid and Pelosi cannot bring themselves to say that second part; quite possibly they don't believe it anyway, and personally support the bombing. It'd be nice to see Democratic politicians capable of nuance, just like their supporters, rather than following Bush's black-or-white thinking. It's disappointing that Obama seems to be trying to say as little as possible about this, too.

[The Magistrate]

7. Mass Appeals Must Be Simple, Sir

It is unfortunate, but it is true.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. I'd call it 'pandering to the worst of the voters', Sir

and therefore I think Greenwald is right to criticise Pelosi and Reid.

[The Magistrate]

9. The 'Worst' Being the Most Numerous, Sir, You Are probably Right

Politics has never struck me as a very high-minded endeavor, and there is always some vague distress in beholding actions out of expected character....

[Dr.Phool]

19. If it won't fit on a bumpersticker.

It's too complicated for the American citizen.

[Larkspur]

3. Americans blame the Palestinians because the MSM poorly informs them of the truth

Israel is always portrayed as the innocent virgin who is attacked by the monstorous Palestinians/Arabs. That's the frame used by the MSM to portray all I/P conflicts. It's amazing that most Democrats don't support Israel's attacks on Gaza. They must be scanning the Internet for the truth.

[The Magistrate]

5. That People Disagree With You, Ma'am, Does Not Suffice To Prove they Are Mis-Informed Or Uninformed

Anyone who looks to the basic news coverage of this question is well aware of the great disproportion of casualties, and it troubles the sense of fairness innate in most of us, and more strongly developed among adherents of the left than is generally the case. It is an unpleasant spectacle, and most people would rather some other course was, or could be, adopted. Most people are also aware that bodies like Hamas have no interest in any resolution to the problem beyond the destruction of Israel, and so understand that there are real limits to what sort of settlement could be had so long as groups of that sort have influence and power. They want such groups out of the equation, and when push comes to shove, will countenance action against them, even if they do not much like the business.

[Voltaire]

11. I'm curious to know what constitutes Israel's right to exist

And please let's not use the Bible or Talmud, they are not land title documents.

[The Magistrate]

12. If Your Question is Serious, Sir

Try commencing with Security Council Resolution 242, items 1(ii) and 2c.

[Voltaire]

14. And what was the basis of those resolutions?

What gave the world body the right to throw the inhabitants of that particular parcel of land off of said parcel in order to place another group of people whose claim to that territory is dubious at best? What gave the world the right to place the Israelis on that land? Not using the Bible or Talmud as some sort of land grant authority, mind you.

[The Magistrate]

16. Money and Guns, Mostly, Sir: Do You Know Of Any Other way?

[Voltaire]

17. So then their claim to the land is not wholly legitimate then. .

I agree that the Israelis sit where they sit for the reasons you named, my disagreement is not with you. My disagreement is with the myth of the innocent little Israelis being put upon by the bad old brown AY-rabs, which, like most american-made myths consist of one tiny part of truth and 99 parts of completely pernicious bullshit. I would be more impressed if the Israelis (and the powers they hold in blackmail) just claimed their right to the land by force of arms, and quit with the saintly bullshit. I don't give a good goddamn about guilt feelings of the West for the Holocaust, or any fucking Balfour Declarations or any of the other weak shit that has been used to force people off of their land. I don't think that the Bible, the Talmud OR Mr. Balfour had the right to move the Palestinians off of their land. That doesn't mean I support terror either. Terrorism is the act of a coward, whether it be pissed off Arabs or the United States of America. I am looking for a legitimate reason to have those people expelled from their homes, and I ain't finding it. I have the feeling I never will. Same as it ever was.

[The Magistrate]

18. Most Land Is Claimed On that Ground, Sir

Though it may be necessary to substitute swords or axes or compound bows for guns in the formulation. You will scour the earth in vain to find more than a few acres still in the hands of descendants of their original inhabitants.

[Voltaire]

20. Understood

And that is the reality of the situation. I am annoyed with the reality, but it is what it is. I am infuriated with the justifications though. If you are gonna screw me out of my house and home, tell me and tell the world you are doing it because you CAN CAN CAN, not because the Bible tells you so.

I suppose the older I get, the lower my tolerance for semantic bullshit.

[The Magistrate]

21. Fair Enough, Sir

We would seem to share the view that honest rogues are preferable to canting moralists, as a general proposition....

[Larkspur]

13. Your depiction of Hamas is as accurate as the colonial mentality of the Israeli government

Hamas has sought to restart the truce that expired in December but Israel was content to starve the Palestinians to weaken them for an invasion they have been planning for a while. Israel wants to punish all Palestinians in Gaza, not just Hamas, for helping elect Hamas in the last election. That's a war crime.

[Torem]

22. MSM misinformation gave us George W. Bush

I agree with the member who places emphasis in the MSM influence on voters/Americans.

[Doctor_J]

10. They're in step with their AIPAC benefactors though

that's what's important.

[yurbud]

15. k & r