‘Buy American’ battle brews

[OhioChick]

K.P. NAYAR

Washington, Feb. 1: First there was a cry to restrict the entry of Indian and other H-1B foreign guest workers into America to lower the impact of the growing economic crisis on American labour. Now a pseudo-patriotic “buy American” zeal is sweeping Washington and threatening to restrict India’s rising exports to the US.

Close on the heels of the US labour-secretary designate’s declaration to limit H-1B visas to protect jobs for Americans, New Delhi is preparing to battle a clause in President Barack Obama’s $900 billion economic recovery package that requires American steel and textiles to be used for government-funded projects.

The package passed by the US House of Representatives last week prohibits the use of iron and steel made abroad from being used in infrastructure projects that are to be launched as economic stimulus.

It also requires US-made uniforms to be used by Transportation Security Administration employees who manage security at all American airports. There are fears that such populist “buy American” demands may be extended as the $819 billion economic package passed by the House is expanded in the Senate version to $900 billion.

Trade has been one of the success stories in Indo-US friendship. From just $5.6 billion in 1990, bilateral trade in merchandise goods rose to $41.62 billion last year, a whopping increase of 743 per cent.

The US and China are now India’s top trading partners.

Textiles, the use of foreign-made ones to be restricted in Obama’s stimulus package, rank second in India’s exports to America, accounting for 21.2 per cent, according to statistics for last year.

Steel exports from India have long been an irritant in Indo-US economic relations. Even during the preparations for Bill Clinton’s presidential visit to India nine years ago, when there were efforts to damp down differences, the US did not hesitate to penalise “cut-to-length steel plates” from India calculating dumping margins at 72.49 per cent, the highest that year for steel brought into America.


More: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090202/jsp/foreign/story_10472518.jsp

[FreakinDJ]

1. Why is India telling the USA how to spend our Stimulus Money

Blood sucking Leaches

[drmeow]

2. Sorry but

:nopity:

Its a stimulus of the AMERICAN economy, not the Indian economy.

[Vincardog]

3. How about this? Everything we buy must be manufactured to USA environmental and labor standards?

IF they don't we put an offsetting tariff on them to equalize the difference?

No Fuck that BUY AMERICAN, if we don't make it build a factory and then make it.

[snot]

22. If I understand what you're saying, I agree.

I'm really not into nationalism. I'm really not into maintaining our standard of life no matter what it costs the rest of the world. that's a losing battle anyway, even if it weren't immoral.

At the same time, I'm not into seeing us impoverished because megacorps can more easily exploit people elsewhere, because they're not protected by local law.

I don't think most of us really want our employment propped up at the expense of poorer people elsewhere.

I think all we want is a fair chance, and to resist unfair exploitation wherever it occurs.

[JDPriestly]

30. Wait a minute. If my neighbor loses her job and her house because I buy

cheap, flimsy clothes made by slave labor in Indian sweatshops, somehow that is good. But if I insist that my government bring back my neighbor's job and help her keep her house and let somebody in India make clothes for somebody else in India and not for me, then that is bad. I don't get it.

I think that when I buy clothes made by virtual slaves in India and China, I am exploiting those virtual slaves. When I buy clothes made by my neighbor here in America who belongs to a union and can afford to buy a house or at least rent a decent apartment with the wages she earns, then I am being fair. At least, that is the way I see it.

Free trade is what is unfair. Let Indians make most of their products for other Indians and export what is left after all
Indians are well clothed. Same for Americans.

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. J K Galbraith Snr made a most telling point re this economic depression,

and all others, for that matter.

"In all modern depressions, recessions, or growth-correction, as variously they are called, we never miss the goods that are not produced. We miss only the opportunities for the labour - for the jobs - that are not provided."

So, basically, the short-cut, but pragmatic, nevertheless, is to spend what little you have or don't have on jobs, but running counter to the policies of recent times, with money going to the public rather than the economic elite, so that the former's retail outlets, rather than the "top of the market" emporia are increasingly patronised and funded. All this, without little or no taxation coming from them, but much more, from the rich.

Evidently, food will always be the priority, but a plausible hierarchy of products for the public to buy should be established and the businesses producing them, correspondingly funded.

Funding credit for the public, instead of paying a proper living wage evidently contributed to this disaster, and if at least the bosses of the small and medium businesses realise their own future, long-term rather then "bubble" prosperity, depends on it, they should be willing to accept a lower return than they have been used to. Obviously, extension of credit to them would be advantageous to everyone.

[Vincardog]

42. You got it. The US Government (That is you and me) is spending money to stimulate our economy. Is it

too much to ask that the money is at least spent in such a way as to put and keep US workers in decent paying jobs? We can help the rest of the world as we grow our working class' income. Why should we borrow money to accelerate the race to the bottom in wages?

[Radical Activist]

4. Good

The H-1B visas are about nothing but lowering the wages of tech and high skill workers. Let's talk about those visas again when companies are required to pay them the same wages as American workers instead of using Indians as scabs just like the companies that used to buss in black people to break a strike 100 years ago.

[47of74]

5. Better yet, lets have a provision put in that specifies...

...that if you want an H-1B visa for an employee you had better damn well be prepared to pay that person 16 times an hour what you would pay an American, and that also if you try to get around that you will go to prison for a very long time.

[exboyfil]

9. A bit extreme but I have always thought

that a H1-B Visa should be available for a $50,000/yr fee. If an American can't compete on those terms, then we might as well fold up our cards. If a critical skill is truly only available with a foreigner, then the company would be willing to pay it - otherwise the company will buy American so to speak.

At $50,000/yr I would not require any sort of sponsorship just a restriction on drawing any sort of welfare benefits. We want folks in this country that are innovative and can create jobs.

The problem gets in that many jobs, mine included, can be done in other locations (maybe not as easily but the dollars are there in salary difference to make it worth exploring). An Indian makes a 1/3 to a 1/2 what I make.

It is a little bit Quisling, but I have been angling to manage these Indian engineers. On a long term basis, it is the only way I can see to keep my job. I am not a good manager, and I really don't enjoy managing, but I got to try anything to keep my job.

[47of74]

13. I'm tired of our jobs getting handed over like this

I'm tired of seeing our jobs getting handed over to others all the time. There are millions of Americans who can do the job, and do it better than anyone else on Earth. If the corporations want to have their blessed H1-B program, then they should pay through the GD nose for it, and I don't think 16 times is being extreme. Whatever it is, we have got to stop making it worth the while of corporations to hire these people in the first place.

[madrchsod]

6. child labor produces a lot of textiles

you would`t believe just how cheap indian textiles are to import into the usa. slave labor wages and lax pollution laws make`s india made products cheaper than most of south east asia.

it`s my money they want to spend and it better be the guy or gal down the street that gets it.

[8 track mind]

7. From someone who makes stuff from metal for fun

Steel from China and India BLOWS!!! The stuff is so porous and just seems so hard to weld. It is so hard to keep it consistent. It does not seem to have the tensile strength of German or American steel

[Azlady]

10. Ha! A Super Walmart built in NM - they used steel trusses from China-

They installed them, just the stress from being installed, started bending - WITHOUT THE REST OF THE ROOF!
It delayed the opening of the Wallyworld for a VERY long time, while they waited for USA made Roof trusses to be made!

[8 track mind]

18. oh man...

Are you kidding me? That is pathetic!!!!

[Azlady]

21. Nope, ain't kidding!

Went to see family and a damn wallyworld was going in - a year later I went back for a visit and it was still not done... I asked why & a friend of my family was the building inspector that found the bending trusses, 2 weeks after installing them! Frightening, huh! Makes ya wonder about other buildings in the USA that have steel from China that missed proper inspection!

[ihavenobias]

24. The high cost of low, low prices. n/t

[Deja Q]

40. Are there any news articles on that incident?

[Azlady]

41. I have been tryiing to find one -

Itis such a small community, I keep trying to google it with different search words, no luck yet, but I am going to keep trying. I'll post as soon as I find hard print, I suppose I shouldn't have said anything without an article, so now the hunt is on!

[silverojo]

20. NOTHING from China or India is good

With the sole exception of a band called S.H.E from China. :P

[Waiting For Everyman]

8. Is this an India Stimulus bill? A Canada Stimulus bill? A UK Stimulus bill?

Shameless. Greedy. Pigs. I've never seen so much absurd nonsense.

I'm very sure this is the real "sticking point" the Repubs have about it. Any money that doesn't go to ruining us, they're against.

Well I think they're going to find that this provision is not "optional" with the public. Just a hunch.

[ArthurD1]

11. Why buy american?

I used to work for Delphi Steering. My boss once told me the reason we had plants in Mexico was so we could both pay lower wages AND not worry about environmental regulations. He told me I would not want to work there because the water and the air were badly polluted. When we buy stuff made there (and in China, Korea, etc.) we are basically saying we condone raping the environment where others live, so we can buy stuff cheap. Then we can go on our high horses and oppose drilling in Alaska, etc. What a bunch of hypocrites we are.

Ron

[OrwellwasRight]

23. Welcome to DU!

Well, we are only hypocrites if we don't give a shit what we buy. If we, on the other hand, shop local, buy organic, buy American, pay extra for fair trade, and all the rest, we are putting our money where our mouth is. I'd rather pay more, and know that I am not raping the environment or taking advantage of another human being, than just pay less.

[JDPriestly]

31. Where do you get fabrics made in the USA?

[ConcernedCanuk]

25. Welcome to this crazy board! - be patient - some of us ARE real

.
.
.

[mdmc]

46. yup lol

we've met the enemy..
welcome to du..

[TrogL]

12. Why declare economic warfare on Canada?

Our steel mills could use the work and the US no longer has the capacity for what you're going to need for infrastructure projects.

[Waiting For Everyman]

16. Are there no infrastructure projects to do there?

I'm sure the same should be done in Canada, for Canadians.

And diminished capacity is exactly why our plants need the work - to rebuild them. And rebuild them we WILL. Count on it.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

17. If Canada wants to throw some dollars at out treasury

Maybe we should buy Canadian steel. If I have to pay part of my income for the steel, it had better go to employ U.S. workers.

[anonymous171]

14. Fuck them. America first. nt

[time_has_come]

28. If you really believe that then you would be against the protectionism.

or do you want to pay more for everything?

[Deja Q]

39. Paying more for quality, why not??!

A $60 DVD player is not worth $60 if the same model breaks down after 6 months (red flag alert: a 90 day warranty speaks volumes).

It's more responsible to make solid products. It's more responsible to buy more solid products.

People who do good, hard work should be paid a fair wage too. I just don't see the problem with that. Especially when consumer spending and doing a good job to earn that money should be what count.

[time_has_come]

47. You're missing the point. You'll be paying more for the same shit.

Did you think suddenly everything would be made in America? No, the stuff will still come from all the places it comes from now. Because of tariffs you will pay more, not to mention retaliatory tariffs that will decrease the demand for American exports.

[acmavm]

48. Maybe people will learn to do without so much 'shit'. We don't need all

the crap we buy. Start manufacturing in America. Buy quality, buy American made. NO more foreign 'shit'.

[ConcernedCanuk]

44. yeah - we hear that . . .

.
.
.

[safeinOhio]

15. Free trade, fair trade

The new law when SafeinOhio is king, to sell us something for one dollar, you have to buy something from us for one dollar. Next we export U.S. unions to all trading partners.

[salguine]

19. It gets awfully hard to "buy American" when practically nothing is "made American" any

more.

And, you know what? I don't feel a particular obligation to buy American just because I am one. I'm going to buy whatever gives me the best value for my money in any given situation. If any remaining American manufacturers want me to choose their products, is it so unreasonable for me to expect them to make it worthwhile for me by making a good-quality product at an affordable price? They used to do that in this country.

[ConcernedCanuk]

26. LOL - good point - gotta buy what you need/want - if USA don't make it . . .

.
.
.

Big corporations got very greedy

profit margin better overseas

quality be dammed

and there ya go .

and here we are

sucks don't it?

(sigh)

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. We make concrete and steel - that's what this is about for the infrastructure projects.

We're not talking about toasters or TV sets.

[salguine]

36. But, we could be making concrete and steel AND toasters and TV sets, that's my point.

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. I'd like that too - hopefully we soon will again.

That would be moving in the right direction. And if we labeled products so we'd know which were US-made.

[time_has_come]

27. Hoover did the same thing, and it turned a recession into a great depression.

It's foolish to set up trade barriers which will only cause trade wars at this time.

Instead of worrying that some of the stimulus package will be buying Canadian steel, worry that a large chunk of it will line the pockets of rich wall street bankers.

When Hoover was getting ready to sign a protectionist bill in 1930 over 1000 US economists signed a petition asking him not to do it.

Let's learn from history: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118593352401884265.html

[JDPriestly]

32. Hoover had an economy with factories and manufacturing.

There is virtually no manufacturing left in the US today. We have to rebuild our manufacturing sector. The situation today is very dangerous.

First, young Americans are not learning the manufacturing skills that they might need. They are not learning how to make things. All they are learning is how to play with computers.

Second, we can't be secure as a nation without a viable and complete manufacturing base. What would we do if the countries that supply us with basic manufactured goods were to experience political upheaval, end up in revolution and decide not to export to us. If we let our manufacturing sector deteriorate at the current pace, how long might it take before we could begin to produce toy guns, much less real machine guns for our military?

We need to rebuild our manufacturing capacity, and as soon as possible.

Here in L.A. certain industrial interests persuaded the civic leadership to take out the street cars and encourage automobile traffic. Today, we have no decent public transportation. Similarly, countrywide, we have destroyed our manufacturing base. I hope the stimulus bill will help us rebuild our public transportation and our manufacturing base.

[sellitman]

49. Many countries protect their jobs by various means.

I'm all for doing the same. Obama realizes if there are jobs there is prosperity. Cheap foreign goods got us in this mess. Time to buy American. Time for Import quotas. Time to suck it in and rebuild America with new factories and new jobs.

What good are cheap Chinese goods if we have no job to buy them with?

[bstender]

29. Let the Govt. buy American

they specialize in spending money without concern for value. if only they could be the whole economy, we could all go back to sleep!

[Skittles]

33. fuck India and fuck China

[Daveparts]

35. Same as Before

Through this program of action we address ourselves to putting our own national house in order and making income balance outgo. Our international trade relations, though vastly important, are in point of time and necessity secondary to the establishment of a sound national economy. I favor as a practical policy the putting of first things first. I shall spare no effort to restore world trade by international economic readjustment, but the emergency at home cannot wait on that accomplishment. FDR 1932

[snowsman]

37. I'm with the Protectionists, at least for the short term

If we seek to boost American business in the short term, it makes sense to me that they should be given preference over overseas ones.

[mdmc]

45. There is nothing wrong with protecting a segment of the economy

for political, economical, or defense purposes.

It is good to have a steel and textile and manufacturing sector in America, even if it is not globally profitable. This type of limited protectionism is free trade at its best. Any private company can buy anything from anywhere in the world. This clause does nothing to hamper free trade. Dodge can get steel where ever it wants to. No penalty. No tariff.