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Emptywheel- Obama’s Two “Ifs” on FISA: Heads I Win, Tails You Lose (Breaking)

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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 10:00 PM
Original message
Emptywheel- Obama’s Two “Ifs” on FISA: Heads I Win, Tails You Lose (Breaking)


Obama’s Two “Ifs” on FISA: Heads I Win, Tails You Lose
By: emptywheel Thursday February 26, 2009 6:14 pm


Briefs on FISA are coming out in Northern California so fast and furious it's hard to keep them straight. Just as a reminder there are two main cases:

* al-Haramain, in which the Bush (and now Obama) Administration has invoked State Secrets to prevent lawyers for the defunct charity al-Haramain from using clear evidence that Bush wiretapped them illegally to prove that Bush wiretapped them illegally
* Retroactive immunity (Jewel/EFF), in which the Electronic Frontier Foundation is challenging the retroactive immunity statute Congress passed last year on Constitutional grounds

The Obama stance on these two cases is worth looking at in conjunction because the Obama position toward congressionally-passed law is perfectly crafted to gut civil liberties (and Article III authority), all based on Obama's interpretation of "if."




more analysis: http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/26/obamas-two-ifs-on-fisa-heads-i-win-tails-you-lose/


Breaking DU thread "Obama Administration Supports Telco Spy Immunity"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3758004#3758024
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kicking
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thank you. n/t
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. More:
CQ Politics:


Justice Department Defends Telecom Immunity in Surveillance Law

By Keith Perine | February 25, 2009 10:03 PM

The Justice Department is defending a provision in a 2008 surveillance law that provides legal immunity to telecommunications companies that cooperated with the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance program.

The department was expected to defend the provision. But its stance in a brief filed today in a California federal court underscores the surprising degree to which the Obama administration -- at least in court -- is determined to shield President Bush's controversial counter-terrorism policies from legal challenge or even public scrutiny.

The Obama administration is seeking to have a raft of consolidated lawsuits challenging the legality of the warrantless surveillance dismissed. U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker, who is overseeing the consolidated lawsuits in the Northern District of California, asked the Justice Department for its views on the immunity provision in the law.

Under the provision, judges are required to dismiss such lawsuits against a telecommunications company if the Attorney General privately certifies that the company was cooperating with the government.

In an 18-page brief, the department rejected the argument that the immunity provison is an unconstitutional delegation of legislative authority.

(...)

the rest: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/legal_beat/2009/02/justice-department-defends-tel.html?ref=fp2



SFGate



Obama administration backs telecom immunity


Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, February 27, 2009


(02-26) 19:20 PST -- The Obama administration has asked a federal judge in San Francisco to uphold a law aimed at dismissing suits against telecommunications companies that cooperated with President George W. Bush's wiretapping program.

In a filing late Wednesday, the Justice Department sought to dispel Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker's concern that the law might violate the Constitution by giving the attorney general too much power to change the legal rules that govern the companies' conduct.

The law requires that judges dismiss suits by people claiming that the companies violated their privacy rights, as long as the attorney general certifies that the firms were helping an anti-terrorism program that the president authorized.

"Under well-settled law, Congress may leave the decision of whether and when to make a certification to the attorney general's discretion," government lawyers wrote.

They said Congress did not surrender its lawmaking power when it passed the so-called immunity measure for telecommunications firms last year. Instead, they said, Congress was directing the attorney general to shield companies from suits that endangered national security.

Walker is presiding over nearly 40 lawsuits by customers who accuse companies of illegally sharing their phone and e-mail messages and records with the National Security Agency. Bush acknowledged in 2005 that he ordered the agency to intercept messages between Americans and suspected foreign terrorists without seeking approval from the courts or Congress.

more:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/26/BADF165O4N.DTL



Obama- the candidate


Obama said there is "little doubt" that the Bush Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies, "has abused authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the required court orders."


June 21, 2008 1:20 PM
Obama: I'll Fight To Strip Telecom Immunity From FISA
Posted by David S Morgan | Comments 270


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml


Holder- Jan 25, 2009-- will vigorously defend our sucky Congress, who made it the law of the land.

Obama to Defend Telco Spy Immunity

By David Kravets EmailJanuary 15, 2009 | 4:50:46 PMCategories: Surveillance

Holder The incoming Obama administration will vigorously defend congressional legislation immunizing U.S. telecommunication companies from lawsuits about their participation in the Bush administration's domestic spy program.

That was the assessment Thursday by Eric Holder, President-elect Barack Obama's choice for attorney general, who made the statement during his confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee. A court challenge questioning the legality of the legislation is pending in U.S. District Court in San Francisco -- where the judge in the case wanted to know what the Obama administration's position was.

"The duty of the Justice Department is to defend statutes that have been passed by Congress," Holder told Sen. Orin Hatch (R-Utah), who asked whether the Obama administration would continue the legal fight to uphold the legislation that the Electronic Frontier Foundation is seeking to overturn.

"Unless there are compelling reasons, I don't think we would reverse course," Holder added.

At a San Francisco hearing in EFF's case last month, U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker wondered aloud whether the incoming Obama administration would continue to defend the legislation, which passed in July. Obama opposed immunity but voted for it because it was included in a new spy bill that gave the Bush administration broad warrantless-surveillance powers.

"We are going to have a new attorney general," Walker said from the bench, wondering whether he should delay a decision, pending guidance from Obama. "Why shouldn't the court wait to see what the new attorney general will do?"


more: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/01/obama-to-fight.html




A Summary of Congressional Legislation to Revise the FISA Amendments Act

Jim

Are you looking for a summary and review of legislation before the Congress to revise the FISA Amendments Act, restoring 4th Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure?

Well, here’s your summary: no such legislation exists.

Not one member of the House, not one member of the Senate has bothered to submit a single bill to the Congress to undo provisions of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, a law that enabled arbitrary government search and seizure of you, your communications, and your property.

Not one legislator. Not one bill… even though a third independent source has confirmed just this month what we’ve been told for years: that the government has used its power to snoop on you, to snoop on your neighbors, to snoop on journalists, to snoop on whistleblowers, to listen in on American soldiers’ pillow talk with their spouses.

In case you were wondering, addressing this breach in American freedom is not on the president’s agenda either. And judging by the throngs of people who did not show up with me to remind Barack Obama of his duty to preserve, protect and defend constitutional liberties, the American public doesn’t really care either. It’s just you and me, pal… and hey, maybe not even you.


link: http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2009/01/26/a-summary-of-congressional-legislation-to-revise-the-fisa-amendments-act/





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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thank you for posting what he said during the campaign. What was all
that talk, just talk? Are we supposed to compare it to a used car salesman using 'puffery' to close the deal. That's what it sounds like.

Some people are all starry-eyed over Obama's domestic programs, the stimulus, and are willing to forgive him anything, even this treachery. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. And by doing so they take personal possession of any and all guilt that comes from supporting the worst actions of the bush** admin.

He has done some really good things. Yes, he has. But this and investigating the run up to the war and everything having to do with it are the biggest things he will face. And there is only one way to go. Investigate, try, and convict.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Guy here has a bumper sticker.
I know Mr Holder is just doing his job as he sees it, but if he keeps seeing it that way, I might have to get me one of these.



http://www.cafepress.com/theproudliberal.361373039
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Court of Appeals Update (today) -- new threads
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why is he backing out on this very important campaign (signature)
issue? Was it just a ploy to beat Hillary? He is a Constitutional lawyer so he knows full well the negative impact of this posture on our civil rights. Love the bumper sticker. Someone please send Obama and Holder one each.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I wish I could tell you I was one who's able to think
Edited on Fri Feb-27-09 11:47 PM by chill_wind
it was all just some divine master chess strategy to save the constitution by playing chicken with it, except that I don't. Call me crazy, but I don't buy into the idea that the way to let 40 some cases go forward is to argue to have them dismissed. BUT IANAL....

So I think their position was their position, just as Holder promised it would be in advance, just as our sucky Congress allowed him to have that idea and many others, just as Obama helped Congress in those course of events ( even as he argued they sucked.) Dems and Obama could prove a lot to me by revisiting that nasty piece of legislation any day now.

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