Christian Science Monitor: "NRA: New Face of the American Right?"

[villager]

NRA: The new face of the American right?

Key GOP leaders came to woo the NRA's annual convention this weekend, one sign of the group's growing clout.

By Patrik Jonsson

Phoenix - When Kirby Warner, a trusty Ruger pistol strapped to his hip, sat around and shot the breeze with his fellow gun owners here at the National Rifle Association's annual meeting this weekend, they weren't just chatting calibers and cartridges.

Nor did they stop at other tried and trusted fare, such as President Obama and gun control. This year, taxes, bailouts, and the general direction of the country was all on the docket. He remembers reading a sign at one of the national tea parties: "If First Amendment fails, see Second Amendment."

"I like that," he chuckles.

The 47,000 gun-loving Americans who attended the 138th NRA Convention bore the hopes of many disgruntled, mostly white Americans who seek to check what they see as Washington's liberal trajectory. They represent one of the most organized and entrenched groups opposed to the Obama administration and the Democratic-controlled Congress, so it's no coincidence that Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona, potential Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, and GOP chairman Michael Steele all spoke Friday at a leadership forum here.

Moreover, they are growing: Membership is booming, gun registrations are skyrocketing, and ammunition stores are back-ordered by the millions. This success is giving the NRA significant clout in an electorate polarized by issues ranging from gun control to government bailouts. In addition, it is threatening to merge the organization's firebrand rhetoric – which, critics say, sometime verges on paranoia – with a broader band of political discontent.

<snip>

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0518/p02s04-ussc.html

[dgibby]

1. The new motto of the republicon party: Goobers for God and Glocks.

[madrchsod]

2. has been that way for years...

i used to be a member when i lived in the country. i moved into town and the nra went hard right.

my father in law was a lifetime member of the nra. he hunted ,fished and trapped all his life and when the nra went on the "assault rifle" campaign he resigned. he used a bolt action 17mm for fox,single barrel shotgun for deer and water fowl he believed in giving the critters a sporting chance.

[paulsby]

4. the 2nd amendment

is not limited to hunters, nor are hunters the primary victims of the anti-civil rights stampede of gun grabbers.

also, the NRA never went on a "assault rifle" (i find it ironic you use quotes, since you aren't quoting at all, and in fact are using the wrong term) campaign.

they went on a campaign, rightly so, to protect so called "assault weapons" which were a legislative invention, with exactly zero evidence they are related to a crime problem. it distinguised certain weapons, mostly by cosmetic features, as to be banned.

[paulsby]

3. bogus article

i quote

"the 47,000 gun loving armericans"...

so people who support civil rights vis a vis guns are "gun loving americans"?

would the cs monitor refer to people who support abortion rights and attending NARAL meetings as "abortion loving americans?"

of course not.

note the logical inconstistency.

i support gun rights, civil rights. i do not LOVE guns. frankly, i'm not very interested in guns at all.

are there some people who are "gun lovers" ? yes. fwiw, i know some gun lovers who DON'T support concealed carry, but that's another issue.

regardless, standing up and defending civil rights does not mean one is a gun lover.

fwiw, i can carry regardless of CCW laws. benefit of my job. i don't support CCW and civil rights because they benefit ME. i support them because they are constitutionally mandated, and because they empower citizens.

[villager]

5. bogus point

That number refers, specifically, to the people who attended the NRA convention -- which you "conveniently" neglect to point out (leaving only the inference from your NARAL reference...)

But you are free to defend the NRA as poor misunderstood civil rights crusaders, however, and ignore the larger context of their overall politics, their positions on American cultural issues, their ties to the right, etc...

[paulsby]

7. and as you repeatedly miss

attending an NRA convention and/or supporting civil rights does not (necessarily) mean one is a "gun lover"

my frigging dad is an NRA member, and he doesn't even OWN a gun. but he supports rights.

so do i.

and yes, the NRA does have "ties to the right" etc. because the right overwhelmingly is better at supporting 2nd amendment civil rights.

similarly, NARAL has "ties to the left" because the left is overwhelmingly better at supporting reproductive rights

the operative question, in determining NRA's fealty is

1) in an election where the dem candidate supports civil rights (2nd amendment) and the repub opposes them, who does/would the NRA support?

[villager]

9. NRA folks aren't gun lovers? Really?

They're sorta neutral about how they feel about their ammo and firearms, then?

[paulsby]

11. many NRA folks are NOT gun lovers

yes, that is correct.

being enthusiastic about civil rights =/= being enthusiastic about guns.

fwiw, i am enthusiastic about the former. i am not a gun lover at all.

i own one gun, besides my duty weapon, and that's it.

[villager]

13. so the NRA is a *civil rights* group - like the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, say,

or the ACLU?

And not really a gun group at all?

[paulsby]

15. i didn't say they weren't also a gun group.

don't put words in my mouth. i said they are a civil rights group, yes much like NARAL or the ACLU, or the Electronic Freedom Foundation.

and i said attending an NRA convention and/or being a member does not equate to being a gun lover. in some cases, yes.

in the case of the latter, many members may be "computer lovers" but not necessarily. you don't have to be a total computer g33k in order to believe in online privacy and freedom

you don't have to be a gun lover to believe in the 2nd amendment.

[wolfgangmo]

12. So if I get your point here...

It is that the NRA is a civil rights organization. Kind of like the NAACP?

Is that it?

[villager]

14. oh hey -- I just asked the same question!

I guess Phoenix badly wanted to host a civil rights convention!

[paulsby]

16. of course

or like the EFF or NARAL or the ACLU

[villager]

23. so you really can't see any difference between the NRA and ACLU?

n/t

[paulsby]

24. i can see many differences

but that's not germane to the issue that they are (EFF NRA ACLU NARAL) organizations that fight for civil rights.

some, like the ACLU, are broad based. others like EFF (primarily 1st amendment, but many 4th amendment issues as well) NARAL and the NRA have narrower foci.

that's great.

[villager]

26. very germane, actually -- like saying NOW and the Eagle Forum are "the same"

because they both address "women's issues..."

[paulsby]

27. except it's not germane

because i never said they were same.

this is the textbook definition of a strawman. claim i said something i never said, then make an attempt to refute it.

that's wonderful, but not relevant.

what i said, is that the NRA, like the ACLU, EFF, etc. is an organization that fights for civil rights. it's a civil rights org, sjust like the ACLU.

it does not therefore follow that they are THE SAME.

if you are interested in having a conversation, then don't put words in my mouth i never said.

the NRA, ACLU, EFF, etc. are all civil rights orgs.

[marmar]

18. " who support abortion rights and attending NARAL meetings as "abortion loving americans?" "

That's a really poor attempt at a strawman......

[paulsby]

20. go back to logic class

it is not a strawman. it's an analogy.

analytical reasoning 101.

clearly, you do not understand the meaning of that word.

[Doctor_J]

28. WTF??

- 99% or so of the people at the NRA gathering own guns. 99% of the people at the NARAL meeting have not had abortions.

- Many people at the NRA meeting think the country would be better off if everyone owned a gun. No one at NARAL thinks that about abortions

- Lots of people love guns. No one loves abortions

Yeesh. The rhetoric from the 2nd amendment people gets weirder all the time.

[paulsby]

29. 99%

99% of the people at NRA gathering think that gun ownership is a CHOICE that should not be infringed (except violent felons, etc.)
99% of the people at NARAL meetings think abortion should be an individual choice, too.

NARAL believes, from both a policy and constitutional law angle, that the choice to have an abortion resides with the individual.

NRA believes, from both a policy and constitutional law angle, that the choice to own a gun rests with the individual.

NRA believes that guns are objects, with no moral attachments (they aren't evil, etc.)
NARAL believes that abortions are medical procedures, and see above.

hth

[Doctor_J]

30. True, and completely irrelevant to your prior post

you said that calling NRA conventioneers gun-lovers is like calling NARAL members abortion-lovers. NRA members ARE gun-lovers. NARAL members are NOT abortion-lovers. It's so simple a gun-lover should be able to grasp it.

[paulsby]

31. it rests on the assumption

that NRA conventioneer = gun lover, which i question.

i am sure a fair # are, but there is not an equation where one equals the other.

i'd definitely attend an NRA convention, if it was in my area.

and like i said, i am far from a gun lover.

guns themselves kind of bore me. gun talk bores me.

talk about gun rights, legalities, civil rights, RKBA otoh lights my fire.

[benEzra]

6. The NRA is about 5% of gun owners.

Ten times that many Americans own guns the Brady Campaign wants to ban, which is the real reason why new gun bans are a non-starter.

[boomerbust]

8. Ted Nugent

Was seen clad in a diaper. His draft dodging efforts are no longer needed.

[thelordofhell]

10. I firmly believe in the right to bear arms

Everyone should have a circa 1776 firearm, who knows when the British will come back to re-take the Colonies.

[paulsby]

17. and clearly the 1st only applies to revolution era printing presses not blogs or ball point pens

same "logic"

[Doctor_J]

19. New?

:shrug:

[burning rain]

21. I doubt it will much help the GOP, unless.....

the administration and congress really go after the gun issue, and it certainly doesn't look like it. My state, Pennsylvania, is about as big on guns as any, and Obama carried it with a handsome margin, and 12 of our 19 US congressmen are Democrats.

[Skittles]

22. the NRA is lower than pond scum

[baldguy]

25. NRA=GOP

so it stands to reason.