Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

World's Dumbest Talking Point Gets Traction (A Top Rated Diary @ DailyKos Last Week w/ 534 Tips)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 12:40 PM
Original message
World's Dumbest Talking Point Gets Traction (A Top Rated Diary @ DailyKos Last Week w/ 534 Tips)
Edited on Tue May-26-09 12:49 PM by ihavenobias

By Cenk Uygur

For weeks now, Republicans have been talking about how we can't bring Guantanamo detainees to the US as if we'd be bringing them in for a picnic. They have pretended that bringing them to the US is the same thing as releasing them out in the middle of Kansas or Oklahoma (or right by Ground Zero ). We've talked about this on from time to time to , but I didn't bother writing about it because who would be dumb enough to believe this inane talking point? Well, now we have our answer. Almost the entire Senate.

They just to say that the Obama administration cannot have the funds they need to close Gitmo and bring the detainees for trial here in the US. Rep. King was outraged at the idea that the people who carried out 9/11 would be tried near Ground Zero. Where the hell else would they be tried? That's where the crime happened. That's how our system works. Where are we supposed to try them - on Mars?

Well, the Bush administration came up with the novel idea of turning our military base at Guantanamo Bay into a legal version of Mars. And since it's been ongoing for almost eight years now, everybody seems to find that a credible solution. But that's crazy. The United States cannot create a legal black hole where we put anyone we don't like and hold them there indefinitely. That was the whole problem with the Bush administration and Gitmo in the first place.

Imagine if another country took our soldiers and held them on an island and said to us, "Don't worry, no laws apply there, so we can legally do whatever we like to your guys and keep them there forever." Would we be assuaged by that nonsensical and clearly illegal explanation? Of course not. That's why we were going to get rid of Gitmo. Anyone remember any of this? I thought we had an election about this.

So, let's get to the main and most obvious point here - bringing detainees to America does not mean we release them in America. The people who planned and carried out the first World Trade Center bombing are now in the United States! Everyone, panic! Oh no, that's right, they're locked up in a Supermax prison in Colorado, from which they will never emerge. Problem solved. Why is that so hard to understand?

FBI Director Robert Mueller in Congress that if they are even held in a prison in the US, they could radicalize the other prisoners. Here are some of the other prisoners at the Supermax in Colorado - the Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols, World Trade Center bombers Ramzi Yousef and the Blind Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, the Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph. Who are the Gitmo detainees going to radicalize, the Unabomber?

This is absurd. If we're going to try people for crimes they have committed against the United States, of course we have to try them in the United States. We have plenty of prisons that are completely secure and that they have absolutely no chance of breaking out of and that they can spend the rest of their lives in.

Under the breakout theory (another one probably inspired by a Fox network show, Prison Break this time - do these idiots get their ideas from anywhere else?), couldn't they break out of Gitmo, get on a raft, come to the Florida and then spread like a virus through the US (at which point, you'd have to get Jack Bauer to go collect them all). Maybe we should move them further away from the mainland. Maybe we should try them in the Artic Circle?! If they thought the treatment at Gitmo was bad, wait till they get a load of Santa and his reindeer games!

So, the final concern is if they're found not guilty and have to be released. Has no one considered that at that point we would know that they are not guilty? Is that not a relevant consideration to anyone? I get that people are worried they are going to get off on a technicality or something inane like that (yeah, they're going to let Khalid Sheikh Mohammed slide because someone filled out the wrong paper work), but what about the people we actually imprisoned wrongly? Like the Uighurs, for example.

I don't want anyone to think I'm biased because my last name is Uygur (it's the Turkish spelling of Uighur) because what I'm actually biased by is the fact that they are not fucking guilty. We've been holding these guys who we know for six years now.

First of all, can anyone do diplomacy anymore? Here's how you solve this supposedly unsolvable problem. Of course, you don't return them to China where they might be tortured or killed, . I understand why it's politically untenable to release them here in the US. So, you broker a deal. Here's a country that might work with us - Turkey. You give them some trade concessions, so some rich Turks in the textile industry get a little richer and the government who gets paid by those guys take these Uighurs off our hands...

...But there's no way there isn't some Central Asian Republic that can't take a couple of Uighurs for the right price. Let's go, call the banker, let's make a deal.

The case of the Uighurs also applies to anyone else who might be found not guilty, whether it's because they're actually innocent or because we somehow couldn't convict them. You don't have to release them in Wichita or Akron or Fifth Avenue. You can make diplomatic deals to send them to other willing countries. Will we have to sacrifice some things to get them out of the country even though we brought them here by detaining them in the first place? Yes, but that's the price you pay for your mistakes. Especially, if you're not willing to pay the political price of releasing them here...

for the rest of this piece and to subscribe to Cenk's blog.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R!
Cenk nails it, again.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. excellent.
a lot of great points in there, and i share the same frustrations when trying to explain the same shit to fundie in-laws.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Fundie-in laws?
Edited on Tue May-26-09 04:54 PM by ihavenobias
I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-27-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. none of my family live anywhere remotely near me.
instead, i have my entire wife's side of the family that all live within 20 minutes of us.

S.
U.
C.
K.
S.

RWer goose-stepping automatons.

family gatherings are equivalent to camping on Rush's ass boil.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who are the Gitmo detainees going to radicalize, the Unabomber?
As President Obama pointed out before the vote, no one has ever escaped from the maximum security prison where the Guantanamo detainees will be sent. There has to be some bucks in this for those who voted against it. Either that, or the average American voter is just uninformed or stupid and will fall for this happy horses*it....oh yeah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. So who were the six sane senators?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. What a bunch of chicken shits the US has become! Ohh, the scary magical terrorists might 'escape'!.
Sorry T, just tired and pissed off today.



:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Most informative
much grass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Entire US Senate" = TIMID, pantywaist ninnies (not to mention...
...gullible and apparently hysterical)

Jeeeze.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-28-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Yep. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedfordTim Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not sure i care anymore.....

I made a post at TYT while you were away http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2009/5/21/105722/760">on why I'm finding it hard to give a shit

Since writing it, I have also come to the realization that I have no patience for people who suggest patience..."Hey, he's only been in 100+ days. What can you expect?" My answer? Integrity. Then, I remind myself that, after all is said and done, Obama IS a politician, so that is an unrealistic request.

I think I'm going to spend less time at MSNBC and CSPAN and more time girl watching at a web cam voyeur site...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You're way too optimistic IMO. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
matthewf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. K & R!!!
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-27-09 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
Cons will try anything to keep their little torture camp open. Sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-27-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. cenk's title tells the story of US politics since reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine
and the GOP bought up 1000 radio stations to form the world's biggest soapbox for coordinated uncontested repetition. we wouldn't be in this mess without it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-27-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. "they're going to let Khalid Sheikh Mohammed slide because someone filled out the wrong paper work"
No, they'll let him slide because we fucking tortured him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC