"'Great Man'" Theory? History Is Driven by the Little Guy" by Viggo Mortensen

[StarfarerBill]

"Actors have the privilege of exploring fictional characters, to see the world from the perspective of another person's imagined life. Sometimes, usually less often, we have the opportunity to speak the words of historical figures, to say the words they themselves spoke. This presents a different kind of challenge, in many ways, something I have been thinking about personally since becoming involved with a performance project and now documentary film called The People Speak, which is airing on History Channel, Sunday, December 13, at 8 pm (7 pm Central). (A soundtrack of music from the film is available from the Verve label December 9.)

"The project is inspired by Howard Zinn's books A People's History of the United States and, with Anthony Arnove, Voices of a People's History of the United States, two books that have had a deep influence on how I understand this country. Howard's books provide a history of the United States from below, from the standpoint of ordinary people often overlooked in our textbooks and in our culture."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/viggo-mortensen/great-man-theory-history_b_388490.html

[Goldstein1984]

1. Thanks for this post

Zinn's books are great. I've been waiting for the program to air.

[hlthe2b]

2. I admire VIggo Mortenson... He is no superficial supercilious actor

by any means. Great progressive, activist and "thinker."

[natrat]

13. his latest movie,On the Road is incredible. Most disturbing,not for the squeamish

[Blue_Tires]

15. agreed...he came to speak at the march against the Iraq invasion...

[IrateCitizen]

3. It's not an either/or. It's both.

As a historian, Howard Zinn was a writer who grabbed my attention early on, and influenced me to follow this career path. However, the more that I have studied history, I have come to the conclusion that Zinn is very much a polemical historian, and that he sometimes lets his perspective get in the way of presenting an honest portrayal of the facts.

As an example, review his portrayal of Bacon's Rebellion in colonial Virginia. He portrays it as a multiracial affair, with that multiracial harmony eventually shattered by the colonial authorities after Bacon's sudden demise. In all the other sources I've read (to include both primary and secondary sources), I have NEVER come across this portrayal of the event. Rather, it was a rebellion by the upcountry poor whites, led by a cavalier who was forced to live upcountry due to all the tidewater land being taken by the time of his arrival, against the tidewater gentry and Governor Berkeley. Zinn's desire to make the history fit his worldview actually does a disservice here.

Looking at history as being completely driven by the little guy is just as untrue as looking at it as being driven by those in power. Rather, it is a symbiosis between the two, with pressure from below influencing the decisions being made from above, and vice-versa. Zinn's book, along with the "Voices" book he did with Anthony Arnove (I have a copy autographed by both of them, BTW) is extremely valuable in dispelling the "top-down" mythos promoted within our culture, to be sure -- but it does not present THE correct view of history any more than the myths it seeks to overcome.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Have you ever written to Zinn to challenge him on these points?

I would bet that he would respond. Let us know if he does!!!
Cheers!

[IrateCitizen]

7. No, I haven't.

There are much more prominent historians who specialize in these areas, such as Edmund Morgan WRT Bacon's Rebellion in American Slavery, American Freedom, who have clearly demonstrated that Zinn's portrayal is inaccurate. A large part of the problem of Zinn's work is that it tries to present a survey overview of American history -- and while this is certainly attractive for someone who doesn't make a career out of studying history, it falls short when he delves into the many areas that are well out of his areas of specialty. Then, the portrayals become much more based upon secondary as opposed to primary sources -- and historians naturally go toward those secondary sources that more agree with their overall point of view.

[ThoughtCriminal]

5. Discovery, science, technological innovation

Have more impact on how we live than famous "Leaders". Fire, agriculture, machines, flight, weapons, computers, communication technology matter more than any monarch, dictator or president and are likely inevitable consequences of a curious and inventive species.

Nor is technological progress an exclusive product of "Great Inventors". Most of it is the result of incremental discoveries and experiments. The light bulb would have happened even if Edison had never been born.

[IrateCitizen]

6. But by placing utmost importance on the scientific...

... you lose focus on the impact of the cultural. For instance, why did Europeans discover the Americas instead of the Chinese? The Chinese were much more technologically advanced during the 14th and 15th centuries, with fleets of oceangoing vessels that dwarfed those of the Europeans.



This figure shows Zheng He's 440-foot flagship compared to the Santa Maria from Columbus's first voyage. By comparison to Columbus's piddling 3-ship fleet, Zheng He's first voyage (1405-1407) had 63 vessels and 39,000 men. By looking only at the technological side, it would seem obvious that the Chinese would be the ones to discover America. Yet, they didn't -- and most of it was due to cultural, not technological factors. This influence of culture would have tremendous effects on the history that followed, with Europe ascending and China withdrawing into itself and stagnating.

Note, I'm not disagreeing that technological advancement plays a huge role -- it does. But it is not the end-all, be-all when it comes to the study of history.

[ThoughtCriminal]

9. Chinese exploration

These huge ships (if they even existed - that itself is very controversial) were likely not sufficiently seaworthy for trans-Pacific crossings.

But your point is taken. How cultures use the technology available is very important.

[IrateCitizen]

10. There's nothing controversial about the existence of Zheng He's fleet

There is documentation from several sources chronicling its voyages as far as East Africa.

There is also little or no controversy as to their seaworthiness for trans-Pacific crossings. The Pacific is much less turbulent than the Atlantic, after all. And you're talking about ships bigger than 400 feet in length.

The controversy surrounds a claim that the Chinese actually discovered America in 1421, a claim that is substantiated only through significant conjecture.

For the Chinese, the problem was they withdrew back into themselves (a common occurrence throughout Chinese history). The Emperor ordered the entire fleet burned after 1433, and China shut its doors to the barbarians of the outside world until Europeans eventually kicked those doors in.

[ThoughtCriminal]

12. Controversy is also about the size of the ships and seaworthyness

They voyages to southeast Asia, India and Africa stayed relatively near the coast. Crossing the Pacific is a more difficult matter and the size and weight of Treasure Ships of that size presents substantial problems.

As for the question of size and use of massive ships for ocean travel, I hope you will pardon my taking the wiki shortcut here since I have not taken the opportunity to dig for on-line sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_ship#Criticism

[IrateCitizen]

14. Interesting. I was not aware of that.

Thanks for the info. Here's a link to a paper by Sally K. Church challenging the size of the ships -- she seems to be one of the main sources cited in the wiki article. I'm going to try and read through it when I have some time, but my initial skim of the introduction already reveals some excellent points made by the author.

http://www.chengho.org/downloads/SallyChurch.pdf

[yurbud]

8. kick--if Aragorn says it, it must be good.

[bemildred]

11. History drives, it is not driven.

It drives us all, whether we choose or not.
No offense to Viggo, who is a fine person.