ConservaDem Senators Vow to Kill The Bill If It Is Improved.

[Joanne98]

For OpEdNews: Daily kos - Writer

by TomP
reprinted from dailykos

The Conservadem Senators are vowing to kill the bill unless House Democrats f.ck labor and roll over on all major issues:

Sens. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.) and Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) have made clear there is little room to deviate from the bill the Senate passed on Christmas Eve.

snip


Centrists have said they will not vote for a healthcare reform bill that imposes a tax surcharge on the nation's highest income earners or reduces the tax burden on so-called Cadillac health insurance plans, which are held by many unionized workers.

The HIll: Centrists set strict guidelines for Senate-House healthcare talks

•TomP's diary :: ::
•

Landrieu says FU to union workers:

"I can only support a bill if the Cadillac plans are taxed at the level they are in the Senate " said Landrieu. "It's not because I'm thrilled about taxing those plans, which I'm not, but it is the No. 1 cost-containment measure in the bill. It's what is going to drive costs down over time."

The HIll: Centrists set strict guidelines for Senate-House healthcare talks

And Lincoln demands that the House not make any real improvements:

Lincoln also said she has great concern. "If it moves very much at all from where we are, it's going to be hard," she said.

The HIll: Centrists set strict guidelines for Senate-House healthcare talks

That's the Merry Christmas from the Gang of 3, and we know Lieberscum will join them.

One thing I know is that I will do all I can to defeat Blanche Lincoln's reelection. ALL. That is My Number 1 Political Priority in 2012. And I think the AFL-CIO and SEIU will be helping.

Until we make examples, these people will f.ck working people with impunity.

Here's how to start defeating Lincoln:

1 | 2 | 3

http://www.opednews.com/articles/ConservaDem-Senators-Vow-t-by-Daily-kos-091226-816.html

[newfie11]

1. Now how will Obama get blamed for this n/t

[babylonsister]

3. Ha! My first thought, too, because you know he will. nt

[vi5]

5. Here's the thing....

Forget DU. Think about the electorate in general who are not political junkies who don't follow the ins and outs of any of these debates.

If there is a less than optimal bill, that impacts those people's lives in a less than optimal way (higher premiums, less doctors in networks to offset having to take pre-existing conditions, longer wait times, etc) do you really think that come election time they're going to be going "Damn you Senator Mary Landrieu from Lousiana and Blanche Lincoln from Arkansas!!!! Why are you making my life worse and more expensive!!!!". They're going to look at and point to and be angry at the top 3 leaders in our party. Reid, Pelosi, and more importantly Obama.

So right or wrong as we've learned the hard way in this idiotic 24 hour media maelstrom of cable news stupidity and corporate news, Obama will be blamed.
So I would think that if any of us don't want this to happen, then we would probably do well to focus less on what people on DU think and are saying, (who let's face it as pissed as any of us get are still going to vote dem come the time of reckoning on election day) and more on what those other people think.

So the bottom line is that whatever the pragmatism of the situation and the bill itself and whoever is to "blame", failure to handle it in the right way and yes, failure to handle these 3 or 4 senators holding the country hostage on any number of issues, will find much blame for anything that goes wrong being placed squarely on Obama's shoulders. I'm not saying that's right, or fair or that it shouldn't be countered in any way we can. But most people are not high information voters and most people's eyes are going to gloss over when you go "Well, you see even though Dems DO have majorities, there's the fillibuster, and Blanche Lincoln gets a lot of money from insurance companies, so even if Obama wanted the bill to be.....blah blah blah." We can argue this back and forth all day long on here but what any of us who are probably still 95% likely to vote Dem no matter what is irrelevant compared to those other people and convincing them is going to be an uphill battle.

[DisgustedInMN]

7. I think you are making a very dangerous..

... and incorrect assumption, when you say this:

"(who let's face it as pissed as any of us get are still going to vote dem come the time of reckoning on election day)"

While I won't repub, EVER..

I'll be goddamned if I'll support republican light, in the form of corporate DINOs.

I'll either stay home or vote third party and I'm not alone.

Ignore us at your own peril.

[MH1]

8. "stay home or vote third party" means you really don't give a shit

about who gets elected. So if you could redux the 2008 election now, you would stay home or vote third party? You'd be just fine with McCain/Palin?

Fuck anyone with that attitude. Obama may not be fulfilling your dreams but he is not the disaster that a republicon administration would be.

[DisgustedInMN]

9. FUCK any politician that LIES to me..

.. to steal my vote.

BTW pal, I was an Obama Delegate at the 6th CD District in Minnesota. I was involved. The LYING Corporatist Shill left me, not the other way around.

So, fuck anyone that thinks they can browbeat me into accepting being gamed.

:nuke:

[MH1]

11. Obama didn't lie to steal your vote, unless you have a very broad definition of lie

in which case, EVERY politician lies, and if you can't deal with that and still responsibly vote for the best of the available options, then maybe you're right, you shouldn't be voting.

For those with open minds, Booman explains the HCR situation much better than I can so I'll just link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/27/819520/-The-Anti-Corporatist-Movement

[DisgustedInMN]

14. If you think playing semantics ..

.. will win my approval, you are living in a fantasy world.

I KNOW what I was told. I KNOW what has been done.

Call me out some more, that'll shut me up and make me into a good little corporate sheeple.

:tinfoilhat:

[MH1]

21. Not interested in winning your approval.

Doesn't look to be something I'd want. :)

[DisgustedInMN]

33. Feel free to pass that sentiment along..

.. to the DCCC and the DLC. The letters that come begging to my inbox have an entirely different slant.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Voting for blue dogs and conservadems is what got us into this predicament

as long as we continue to reward these assholes with our votes, nothing will change.

[Fearless]

29. +1

[man4allcats]

15. I'm with you.

For too long, corporate owned Dems have counted on the "lesser of two evils" strategy to carry them. In 2008, the choice was the charismatic, intelligent, elegant Obama or Bush's third term (or even worse if McCain died in office and left the Arctic Bimbo in charge). While it was clear to almost everyone that Obama was not a progressive but a centrist, I think most thought he would at least put up a good fight against the most egregious of Bush era policies. Regrettably, that has not been the case. True, Obama should not have to bear this failure alone. House and Senate DINOs are as much if not more responsible than he for what has happened. If these legislators failed to fight for true Democratic reform, it is equally true that Obama failed to lead. You don't fight Republicans by extending a bipartisan olive branch. You fight them with reconciliation and any other legislative club you can pressure your colleagues in the legislature to use to beat them into submission.

Will I vote for a Republican? NEVER! Am I willing to stay home or vote third party if that's what it takes to knock some sense into the Democratic party? You better believe it. Both Republicans and Democrats now rule by intimidation. With the Republicans, the enemy is the terrorists. With the Democrats, it's "vote for us or you'll get Republicans." In reality, today's Democrats and Republicans are just two sides of the same coin, and if we don't stop doin' what we been doin' by supporting these corporate shills, we're gonna keep on gettin' what we been gettin'.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. Great post! You should make it into an OP.

I've been railing about the tonedeafness of the bill's supporters for days now. Like it or not, the Dems and especially President Obama, officially own health care now. Whatever people don't like about their insurance or the delivery of their health care will be blamed on Obama.

[Daveparts still]

10. Oh, I Don't Know?

Maybe they'll blame him because he said he was against taxing health care plans when John McCain proposed it during the campaign. Or maybe they'll try to bring up the issue of Obama promising to not raise taxes on families earning less than 250K.

Or maybe, the CBO saying these taxes will force employers to cut benefits which not only hurt families but that the revenues themselves will disappear as fast as the health care plans they tax. It has no merit what so ever, taxing the middle class to pay for the poor and letting the wealthy skate away

[KrR]

2. Silliness

You are not going to get Liberal Senators out of Arkansa, Louisiana, or Nebraska. Those 3 are the best we can do there. Instead focus on picking up seats in NC, Missouri, and NH.

[benlurkin]

12. It is frustrating

you have to push a true progressive candidate to run, win the primary and unseat the DINO. My frustration is that too many people listen to the first 10 seconds of an incumbent's campaign commercial and believe all the bullshit that is said.

[ixion]

4. I'm not as concerned who kills the bill, exactly, as long as it gets killed

which is what it deserves, in my opinion.

[Vidar]

6. K&R.

[man4allcats]

13. If all it takes to kill this bill is to piss off a few DINOs,

then I say do it. When the House gets the bill back from the Senate, let them cross out everything in the bill and replace it with two words: single payer; then send it back. Of course we won't get single payer, but that should be enough to put a stop to this awful bill.

[rasputin1952]

16. They can't do that when it comes from conference...

With but one exception, it is an up/down vote, w/51 sending the bill up to the pres if the House votes a simply majority as well.

Exception is filibuster, which will only delay the inevitable passage of the bill.

[man4allcats]

17. Oh well, guess it's time to bend over and grab our ankles.

In the words of the immortal Yogi Berra:

"It's like Deja Vu all over again."

[IndianaGreen]

19. ObamaLube will make the BOHICA pain go away

[man4allcats]

20. Ha! Let's hope so.

:rofl:

[rasputin1952]

22. We have not come this close to HCR since TR...

with the exception of Medicare/Medicaid.

To toss anything away, on the notion that it isn't "perfect" is beyond foolish, one cannot amend what is not there...and to do other than pass something is to assure that people of this nation will die before their time, and suffer from treatable diseases unnecessarily...that, to me, is unconscionable.

[man4allcats]

23. While I appreciate your concern for those who suffer both now and in the future,

I do not believe the way to fix the problem is to turn that problem over to the disingenuous people who caused it in the first place. I do not reject this bill because it is less than perfect. I reject it because it is fundamentally and fatally flawed. I have respected your political acumen for a long time. I know you don't need the included selected links to know what is at stake. I nevertheless provide them for those who may wish to know more.

The first is now dated by a few days since the Senate has already passed the current version of the bill, but it does nevertheless summarize some of the major problems. Link Title: Pro-single-payer physicians call for defeat of Senate health bill

These last two describe the early intent and subsequent shortcomings of the public option which, inadequate though it was, has been bargained away for even less.

Those interested should see Bait and switch: How the “public option” was sold and Sick and Wrong.

If you choose to fight for this bill, I respect that choice. I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. You will forgive me I hope, if I don't join you. In my view this bill is wrong, and I will not support it. I leave it to others to come to their own conclusions as I continue to speak out against it.

[rasputin1952]

24. You have the right to speak out against the bill...

but it might be worthwhile to see what comes out of conference, before taking an immobile stand.

I am pro-single payer, I think universal health care w/o any private insurance beats a profit driven group of entities that have people behind desks doing nothing more than finding reasons to deny people care.

I also understand the incremental nature of our form of a Democratic-Republic; as well as the basic fear people have of change in almost every aspect of their lives...when that change is a change in society itself, there is a great deal of pressure to avoid said change.

What I find more disparaging than anything else is the consistent blasting of something that no one even knows what is coming out as the final version of the bill. I've seen threads calling for impeachment, destruction of the D party, people saying R's are "correct", (odd since they have absolutely nothing to offer except, "we say no").

In the mean time, people get sick, and many die, because there is nothing for them. They cannot pay out of pocket, they have no insurance, and they face nothing but despair as they look to the future. This is not conducive to anything I can call "correct".

When all is said and done, and the smoke clears; when only factors are out there...the bottom line is, we can amend something that is there...w/o anything there, we will not see anything for a long time...and people will suffer and die, needlessly, in pain and alone. In fact, if nothing is done, many of those insured today, will not be insured in the future, and those that are insured, will be wiped out by spiraling insurance "premiums", (I prefer "bills or costs", but the "premium" thing makes it sound better).

An aside...medical costs are one of the exceptionally few that get paid even in failure, something almost no other business has the gumption to require. If you die, the bill is still due...kind of amazing. If you are not cured of an ailment, or even see progress, you still pay for the failure...while one might argue, there are no guarantees, the payment is very high for failure in the medical scenario, in more ways than one.

[man4allcats]

28. I do not see this bill effectively addressing the tragic scenarios you cite.

And impeachment? I cannot speak for others, but the only impeachments I've ever called for have been those of Richard Nixon, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Indeed I still wear an Impeach Bush and Cheney wristband. As to the destruction of the Democratic party, the party seems to be accomplishing that on its own. No one even need bother calling for it. And Republicans correct? Please! The only thing worse than a sellout Democrat is a Republican! Neither is worthy of the offices to which citizens of this democratic republic elected them.

But I digress. I would be most happy to see a palatable version of this bill come out of conference. I would be equally happy to learn that cancer has been cured, a source of easily implementable green energy has been discovered that can power the entire planet for a negligible cost and that global warming has been reversed. The problem is, just like with the health care bill, I don't see any evidence to support such whimsical fantasies. I could trust in my elected representatives to work hard and help make some of these dreams come true, but all the evidence suggests such trust would be misplaced. Given the less than stellar track record of our legislators, I would think myself remiss if I didn't push and push hard for what we really need; not for the token they decide to give us after the insurance companies get their more than considerable cut. And make no mistake, conference or no conference, the insurance companies are going to get their cut no matter how many of us they have to kill to get it and no matter how criminally corrupt it all looks to John Q. Public. As long as the cash keeps rolling into their coffers, they don't care one wit what John Q. Public thinks. When corporations effectively own the legislative and executive branches of government, public opinion becomes irrelevant. I would really like to believe that you are correct, but Christmas came and went and all I can say is no jolly red fat man came to my house bearing gifts.

[eridani]

31. Medicare and Medicaid ARE there, and can be amended

We don't need to tie that to mandated underinsurance.

[Dinger]

26. How Many Of These Assholes Are Up For Rejection On 2010?

I don't have much money, but I'm willing to donate what I have to a REAL Dem!

[depakid]

27. Say goodbye to Blanche, Harry and a bunch of Blue Dogs

Kind of a silver lining to all of this.

[Fearless]

30. It always appears darkest before the dawn.

Grant the saying is completely inaccurate. :banghead:

[burning rain]

32. Another good reason for House members to greatly improve the bill in conference...

and tell the Democratic Senate leadership to pass the final bill via the nuclear option. Then Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, and several other red state Democrats can vote No, lessening their political risk, while still letting the bill pass. Public option in particular makes the bill more popular with the public, besides being better policy-wise.

[yurbud]

34. kick