Blue Cross Can't Wait - The Bloodsucking Begins

[Joanne98]

In a continuing effort to provide their customers with access to quality health care at an affordable price, Independence Blue Cross (IBX) is making some changes. Can't be too bad, right....?

Beginning on March 1, 2010, Personal Choice-Standard (PPO), will no longer be available...
(btw- this is my current policy), and after 20 years of offering this plan....

....this what they had to say:

ridemybike's diary :: :: As health care costs continued to rise and our members' utilization of health care services continued to increase, we found it necessary to change the benefits structure of our Personal Choice plans to keep premiums as affordable as possible.

Read: Costs are rising, and members are using too much health care.

The two new plans, Personal Choice-Basic and Personal Choice-Value HSA will help control costs through new cost-sharing schedules and benefits maximums.

Read: You will be paying more and getting less.

Furthermore, current PPO policy holders are required to make a choice between the two new plans.

Here is a quick comparison of the existing Standard PPO plan, and the new Basic PPO plan:

Existing Personal Choice-Standard PPO

Monthly premium: Single $302./Family $770

Calendar year deductibles: Single $500./Family $1000.

Out-of-pocket expenses: Single $2000./Family $4000.

New Personal Choice-Basic PPO

Monthly premium: Single $466./Family $1202
This is a 54% increase over current PPO

Calendar year deductibles: Unchanged

Out-of-pocket expenses: Single $2500./Family $5000.
This is a 25% increase over current PPO

In addition to the premium increases, there are a bunch of medicines, therapies and treatments that are no longer covered; they have expanded the list of medical conditions in their "No Longer Covered" list, and serious mental illness is not covered, at all. If that wasn't enough, most of the general benefits are decreasing by 5-10%.

Still, if I can afford the increase in premiums and provided I don't suffer a psychotic break, logic tells me I should go ahead and select the new PPO called Basic.

Logic might also suggest that IBX would move the hundreds-of-thousands of current Standard PPO members into their new Basic PPO as well. If only because the two benefit structures are much the same.

But, no.

Blue Cross released this statement to its Personal Choice-Standard plan holders:

You will be automatically enrolled in Personal Choice-Value HSA, unless we hear from you by January 15, 2010.

At first glance, it looks reasonable. In fact, the monthly premiums are almost identical to the existing PPO, however, that's where the similarity ends.

New Personal Choice-Value (HSA) plan:

Monthly premium: Single $301./Family $768.

Calendar year deductibles: Single $5000./Family $10,000.
This is a 400% and 900% increase over current PPO

Out-of-pocket expenses: Single $5000./Family $10,000
This is a 400% and 900% increase over current PPO

So, even though the benefits of the new PPO are nearly identical to their existing PPO, Blue Cross moves their members into an HSA plan.
Clearly a way for them to shift the cost of health care to scores of their victims...I mean, members.

A crafty bait-and-switch perhaps?

Or a sign of things to come.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have $5000.
With an unsteady and unreliable employment situation (four different jobs, in my field over the last six years) and ever increasing costs coming at me from every direction, I doubt I'll have anything close to $5000. saved anytime soon.

What is clear, is insurance companies are looking for ways to shift costs to the consumer...the patient...the sick.
They are looking for ways to game the system and bleed their customers dry, in order to satisfy the relentless greed and ferocious appetite of Wall Street and their executives.
You'd think they would chill out until those 30 million new customers show up at their door with orders to buy their scam.
But, no!

Anyone who thinks pending reforms will help keep the insurance companies honest, or control costs are deluding themselves. They are a greedy and corrupt industry....
A public plan might solve this problem...Medicare for All might solve this problem.
It looks like I'll be forced to give the precious few dollars I do have, to an industry that only serves to take advantage of me.

Mr. President, are you listening....do you know what's going on?

Warning my friends, the thievery has begun.
Beware.

Finally, IBX adds this helpful little reminder at the bottom of their letter:

PersonalChoice Value plan is an HSA-qualified, high deductible health plan and may be combined with a Health Savings Account (HSA). HSAs are tax-advantaged, personal bank accounts that can be used for medical expenses or saved to supplement retirement savings. IBC has a preferred relationship with an independent company, The Bancorp Bank, where you may open an HSA, or you may use the bank of your choice. Information about Bancorp HSAs can be found at: mybancorpHSA.....etc.

Read: Yeah, we're in cahoots with the banks, too!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/29/816112/-Blue-Cross-Cant-WaitThe-Bloodsucking-Begins-*Poll*

This is why we needed a public option. An escape route for the victims. I could kill the teabaggers right now!

[dkf]

1. If every lowly teabagger died from a heart condition, this bill would

have looked exactly the same. Its the bought and paid for congress critters that are the problem.

[sabrina 1]

22. You'd think they could have waited.There's

really only way for the people to have a say in all of this and that is to refuse to buy premiums until we do get at least a choice, like a PO or extended Medicare.

We get the government we deserve because the people are not willing to take any meaningful action. Just the threat of an organized boycott of this bill, would get us something.

The people are defenseless against the DC lobbyists and their paid-for members of Congress. We don't have lobbyists fighting for us. But we do outnumber them, that is the one strength we have and it is a powerful one. But I know it is almost futile to suggest using the very powerful weapon right in front of us.

The point is that signing petititions, writing strongly worded letters, even marching on DC doesn't bother them. They throw it all in the trash and ignore it. But they could not ignore a huge, nation-wide refusal to participate in this scam. It would cost them too much. That would alter their thinking and force them to realize that they cannot get everything the want WITHOUT the cooperation of the American.

And that's the bottom line. We can blame them, Obama, Rahm, the Insurance Corps and Congress, but without us, they have nothing. How powerful is that? So, what is wrong with the American people? If this was France eg, that is exactly what they would be hearing. 'You can pass your dumb bill, let's see you try to collect on it'.

We deserve what we get if we refuse to fight for what are entitled to.

[Dragonfli]

25. I agree, we are only cash cattle to them because we behave as cattle.

It is easy for me to boycott the mandate because I can't afford the piece of paper that they seldom honor or the deductibles and co-pays attached to the useless yet expensive piece of paper.

For those that can afford it (barely, by switching to a rice diet and giving up all entertainment expenses) - I am curious how it will go.

The comfortable will probably cheer on the mandate, feeling it will make the freeloaders pay (they just do not grasp how little money people have, they actually think people refuse medical procedures because they don't want to pay).

[sabrina 1]

32. You're last sentence is exactly why

people cannot unite behind a refusal to just 'go along'. The rightwing meme that anyone who is without insurance just a lazy, selfish bum who wants everyone else to pay for their healthcare (a meme Democrats used to oppose based on the reality) has now been adapted by the 'left'.

When I heard Obama slip it into one of his speeches recently 'we don't want the rest of us to be burdened with those who are not covered', it was clear that they are all on the side of the corporations now.

The 44, 000 who have died each year were willing to die rather than pay!! That is what they are saying. Democrats as well as Republicans now. And it is a lie. I could barely handle it when Republicans were doing it and argued constantly with them, but I didn't expect much more from them. I expected Democrats to fight for those who are in need. But it looks like that's not going to happen.

The language about Iraq began to change also when Democrats began using the Bush claim that 'Iraqis have to start standing up for their own country'. The first time I noticed that was when Hillary said it, and then you began to see it on 'progressive' boards.

Yes, the American people have become sheep. They buy the propaganda especially when it's intention is to pit them against each other, playing on the lowest common denominator.

However, judging by the reaction of people I know when they realize that they will be forced to buy insurance, things may begin to change as more people become informed. Right now, the one thing you rarely hear discussed on the MSM is mandated insurance and what it really means.

[Dragonfli]

47. (a meme Democrats used to oppose based on the reality)

In that statement is both the dilemma and the key.
That is what needs to change if the party is to recapture it's former ideals, goals, identity and usefulness to the people.

That is also what we must do if they will not.
Based on reality, the neocon/neoliberal agenda makes no sense at all.

We need to be those Democrats that once were, explain to the neo-lib enchanted sheep what that once upon a time Democrat would have explained to a neocon.

The truth remains true even if the party does not, it is something that can be spread, and those memes that are now spread by both parties can be opposed by us. We need to be the Democrats that once were and do it with little to no help from the "New" Democratic party.

It is the dilemma and the answer.

[waronbanks]

50. Its time to drop party affiliation

Who cares if the democratic party is successful. This is about people getting the care they need. This is about taking this government back from the corporate murderers and marauders that now have COMPLETE CONTROL. Obama is the final proof...running as a compassionate candidate (sound familiar...compassionate conservative anyone?) to get votes and then turning on us.

Screw the party...take this corrupt system down with protests in the streets and a refusal to buy into this crap health care bill. General strikes to hit the corporates where they hurt most. Boycott targeted corporations. SOMETHING...we have to do something other than shaking our heads and taking this BS! I dont give a damn about the party...they have shown their real agenda and it aint us.

[valerief]

40. Yep, they're all agents for the med biz. nt

[David Zephyr]

43. The Tea Baggers didn't have anything to do with Obama's bill. He has the bill he wanted.

And this is just the beginning. Once the bill is signed, they are not only exempt from all the anti-trust laws, they will price-fix and gouge the living shit out of everyone of us for the rest of our lives.

We can thank Barack Obama and his corporate whore within my own party for this shit.

[CoffeeCat]

46. and what about pre-existing conditions...

We were told to be happy--now insurance companies can't deny you for pre-existing conditions.

True. They can't. However, the bill intentionally left out any sort of cost controls. So, sure
the insurance company will gladly not deny you health insurance--even if you have diabetes, sleep
apnea, or back trouble. However, your premiums are going to be hell on a stick. No one will be
able to afford them.

What a sick joke this bill is. Do they want us enraged?

[the blues]

2. K&R... I'm suffering from disgustedosis n/t

[dmr]

49. "expanded the list of medical conditions in their "No Longer Covered" list"

What have they included on this list? Is it another way to get around the pre-existing conditions?

Or from offering long term care to those who may need it most?

Reminds me of the insurance company in NY that removed a condition just so they could get off the hook in paying for a man who desperately needed long-term care.

I have disgustedosis, too. Hopefully Medicare will cover it.

This is utterly shameful on so many levels.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Welcome to HCR

The fundamental flaw in every argument offered in support of the HCR is the ASSUMPTION that the insurance companies WILL PLAY FAIR! THEY WON'T! Folks can mutter about "30 million people getting coverage" and "no denials for pre-existing conditions" until they are blue in the face and the fact remains the same that insurance companies WILL GAME THE SYSTEM! The new regulations in the HCR are MEANINGLESS because insurance companies will use dozens of tactics to stay within the letter of the law and still effectively deny coverage.

The current HCR is a con game!

How do you supporters like the "incremental" changes reflected in the OP so far?

[laughingliberal]

8. There is little meaningful reform in the current bill and what is there can easily be gamed

The provision which does not allow the denial of people with preexisting conditions will require that they sell policies to those who have preexisting conditions. We have heard they will end rescissions but the bill actually says they can still rescind policies for 'fraud,' which is exactly the same reason they say they rescind policies now. Being allowed to continue with rescission makes the provision about preexisting conditions moot. They will collect the premiums and, when you get sick, accuse you of fraud (did you forget about that broken arm you had when you were six?) and cancel your coverage.

The 85% MLR ratio they are required to maintain is the level Wendall Potter has said best enables them to manipulate the numbers. And he has said there really is no one in our federal government who even has the knowledge to dig into the books of these companies and ferret out their accounting tricks.

In addition to the fact that the regulations are mostly show is the fact that there are no provisions for enforcement of the regulations. Enforcement of regulations on the industry remains the domain of the states who are, as a rule, not keeping up with the workload they have now. Some state commissions are just as bought off as the legislators who are foisting this boondoggle on us and others are simply too covered up to keep up. Of course, they have the IRS in place to guarantee enforcement on the public's obligations.

A lot of people who are cheerleading for passage of this POS are, I fear, in for a rude awakening.

[The Gunslinger]

4. Don't worry

Now that we are all going to be forced by law to buy that crap, that will keep costs down, bigger pool, and whatever pure BS talking point you want to throw in there. My cost only rose 90% from the year before. I think my salary rose 0%.

[Dr.Phool]

5. Blue Cross of Florida was selling Health Care Gift Cards.

I about shit when I got that in the mail.

The perfect gift for friends and relatives. Health Care.

[CrispyQ]

15. I guess health care really is a gift, not a right.

Disgusting! :eyes:

This bill is shit & the dems are going to pay for a very long time.

[RKP5637]

6. One more step to the fascist state! n/t

[ima_sinnic]

7. mission accomplished! HCR is a "success"!!1!2

let all who sold their souls to the corporate greedheads take the fall for this one. It will be my pleasure to watch all the liars and connivers deal with the blowback as the entire country goes bankrupt. Too bad Obama just didn't have the stomach to fiercely advocate for the "public option" he gave lip service to--I'm not going to take the simple-minded approach of "blaming Lieberman," because, if so, it means the president of the United States is weak and ineffectual and has no bully pulpit skills. He can't get the legislation he envisioned passed--especially since he hands the job to people like Max Baucus while he walks away all laissez-faire like, seeking mediocre "bipartisanship."

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. Obama=lip service. Always.

[RKP5637]

57. Obama tells people what they want to hear. If he would just do what people

voted for him to do his support across the country would be tremendous. He's riding the picket fence and not playing that game very well IMO. Unless the dems change their strategy I think 2010 is going to be bad, and I'm concerned about 2012. I've been around a very long time and the vibs are not seeming too good for the dems. And that is quite unfortunate. The dems had everything and I think are blowing it...

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. On top of ALL the above

remember that if the govt. ends up paying "subsidies" for some people's insurance, they will pay the Insurance Cos. the new inflated prices.
Remember Sec. 8 housing? The renter ended up paying a "reduced" rate which was at the low end of
comparable rentals in the area, right? turns out it was not that much lower.
but the government paid the landlords an artificially high end rate which was much more than the comparable rates in the area.Massive profit for the landlord.
Same scam in the works here.

[HillbillyBob]

18. At one point I had applied for section 8 help

I found a decent apt in Miami for 500 a month for a one bedroom,that was cheap for a place that did not have rats and roaches and crack dealers in the hall in front of my door, been there done that, Section 8 paid a whole 80$.
They tried to force me into a 3-400$ a month apartment. the roof leaked the toilet did not work..it flushed on to the floor..and that was not the worst apt I looked at.
Being a person with AIDs I had a tcell count of 14 (normal is 700 to 1500 for folks w/o hiv) I got sick just from walking into these places.
Turned out that the folks in the section 8 offices actually were landlords of these places they were trying to force me to rent. If you are poor you should have to live in a hovel not like 'decent' folks. Almost every other place I looked at for less than 500$ was a real rat hole some even looked like the places those 'save the children ads' show. Most decent places were 900 plus for running water and walls w/o holes.
I don't have a problem with fixing up a place, most every where I have lived I did fix up, but at this point in time, coming in from almost 2 yrs on the streets I was not able to paint let alone fix plaster tear out flea infested carpet etc, I was barely able to dress myself, in fact many days I did not get anymore dressed than to shower and put on clean unders.
Our govt is so corrupt yet the Reich wing claims we live in the greatest country in the world when we have a banana republic.
This So called reform seems like the same crap I dealt with trying to get help then.

[endless october]

10. unacceptable.

absolutely unacceptable.

this shit is not reform.

[Joe Bacon]

55. Step 1--Primary Blanche Lincoln!

She's the only one fo the Gang of 5 up for re-election this year. Get the Lieutenant Governor to challenger her in the Primary and kick her out of the Senate. That will send a message to the remaining Gang of 4 (LIEberman, Ben Nelson, Bayh, Landrieu) that we'll see to it that they're fired for enslaving us to corporate welfare.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tbyg52]

13. >>sold you suckers out to their masters

Yep. Two wings of the same corporate party, a few individuals excepted.

[earth mom]

12. Damn it, I KNEW this crap was gonna happen!!!

:mad: :banghead: :grr:

This needs to be posted in GD.

[glinda]

14. k&r n/t

[Jakes Progress]

17. Everyone. Everywhere. Get ready for this.

It will be taking place just as surely as the credit card companies used their government-granted opportunity to screw you.

This is the first wave of what to expect from our HCR.

Does the plan cover the injuries involved in being screwed by the plan?

[MNDemNY]

19. Kill the teabaggers?? sure, but...

DEMOCRATIC leaders had much more to do with the demise of a public option, let alone "real reform" than did any "teabaggers" Don't fool yourself, the "powers that be" were NEVER going to allow a meaningful public option. The corporatists of both parties have seen to this.

[blueworld]

20. And this is an excellent example of why folks like Krugman make me cry

There is NO way under God's giant sun that ANY Congress could EVER anticipate the maneuvering, manipulation, creative bullshit and greedy concoctions these bass turds will spend all their time dreaming up. The entire heavenly host of angels dancing on pins couldn't keep up with thousands of insurance company wonks devoted to the pursuit of profit at anyone's expense.

The ONLY thing that makes them cut prices is competition, because they need to survive by attracting customers. Even if the HCR supporters are correct and initially a "larger" number of people get health care it's like the pusher offering the first few hits free to get new addicts.

It's started for you already, it will continue to get worse & if they rewrite the legislation every week for the next three years, we'll all be scrood in 4.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnWxy]

23. I think the Dems did a poor job of telling people what things will be like without any HCR.

They should have given some more specific projections of what is coming if we did not make any changes. ESPECIALLY in terms of an estimate of how many people would be losing coverage. This really was not covered like it should have been and THEN let people think over whether something should be done or not. Let people think over what losing their insurance will be like - or having even higher deductibles (will you be able to afford to get sick?).

After giving people an idea of how many people would be losing their insurance the obvious question to put to people would have been - "HOW LUCKY DO YOU FEEL???". THEN, you begin talking about ways to deal with the problem. As it is there are people still living in a dream world (helped nicely in this delusion by Republican disinformation), not realizing what they are in for with-out any reform.


Recommmended.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Without HCR? Seriously?

Seriously, I could put aside what I pay in premiums per month and pay out of pocket for routine care. My deductible is already 5000, so I have to do that anyway.

As a savvy uninsured person, I could do what an insured person CANNOT do, which is negotiate with the provider for a lower price. As an allegedly "insured" person, I MUST have payments processed through the insurance company, and for all the thousands of dollars of premiums I pay, the insurance company gives me what has averaged out to be an 18% discount the few times I have availed myself of medical services.

With my current insurance, I would be bankrupt anyway if I ever seriously had to use it, because I still have a 20% copay AFTER I meet my deductible to a maximum of 10,000. If my treatment is "out of network," I have to pay the first $25,000.

If there were no mandate, I'd drop this policy, negotiate prices for routine care, and go overseas for anything major.

The net result would be the same.

The only reason I don't drop my insurance now is that, believe it or not, it is better than what I would qualify for under the proposed Senate bill. (Of course, there is no guarantee that my supposedly "non-profit" company won't rush to match the prices in the Senate bill.)

[JohnWxy]

36. I agree the current system stinks. It's the most expensive in the world and we are near the bottom

among the industrialized nations in quality of health care. I recognize we have a disaster on our hands right now. I was talking about the idiots who think we do not need to do anything (who seem comfortable with their coverage - apparently haven't had to use it yet!).

If I had it my way i would let anybody who wants to opt out of health care do that. But you would have agree that you would never ask for health care assistance for the rest of your life. -- no changing your mind when you get older. And if you showed up in a hospital emergency room, of course you'd have to pay cash (NO Government assistance for Uncompensated Care ($35 Billion paid by Government in 2004) means Hospitals would have to get payment up front - so as not to go out of business). If you're having a heart attack - maybe you could negotiate them down from a $10,000 up front charge just for diagnostic tests and to get you stabililzed - (i.e. to keep you from dieing). But of course after that (if any more extensive treatment were required) the cost would go higher (like if you needed heart surgery perhaps a $100,000 or more). Perhaps you are financially well off enough to write a check of that amount. I did see report on tv last night about the fact that more people are going to Mexico for treatment. Of course, it's hard to predict a heart attack before it happens .... unless you were seeing a doctor...(cash upfront of course).

If you want to hop on a plane whenever you want care that's up to you. Maybe you won't require regular treatment for high blood pressure, diabetes, arthritis, et al.

[uberblonde]

38. In most places, if you're uninsured....

Your health insurance goes way up. Or gets canceled.

[Uncle Joe]

26. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Joanne.

[MissDeeds]

27. K&R

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Joanne98.

[PJPhreak]

28. K&R Nt

[Vermontgrown]

29. This

is fucking healthcare in America. Big business is just a bunch of rotten repukes. A bunch of fucking crooked pricks.

[Vermontgrown]

30. Crooked America here we go.

Get ready people. The weakling dems got no balls so we all have to bow down to the crooked repukes.

[nightrain]

31. knr. Horrid! I say reduce Congress' salaries to 30K/year and make them

buy this crap themselves. They've been riding on the public dole for far too long. Get rid of the lobbyist leeches, go on strike, refuse to purchase this extortion.

Public option isn't enough. Not at those prices! That we need subsidies for lower income people is indicative of rot in the (non-)system. Demand affordable comprehensive single payer.

[irishlover]

33. Oh yeah, our Federal Employee BSBC just went up 50 bucks

Who didn't see this coming? Between that big NON SURPRISE and
the fact that two of our credit cards are raising fees and
interest rates (for no reason on our part, never late, always
overpaying, never over limit) we're screwed. I'm so mad. I
cancelled one of the cards today for those reasons. I could
barely understand the woman on the end of the phone, had to
repeat myself strongly 5 times before she finally got it. Not
that they are stupid: the first thing you get when you call
their number is to push 1 to cancel your card. I guess that
way you get shuttled to the worst, poorly paid operator.

[MidwestTransplant]

34. I hope a bunch of teabaggers got this letter.

[Blackhatjack]

35. From your description of changes to come People Are Going To DIE as a direct result...

With such high individual and family deductibles, co-pays and out of pocket expenses, people WITH INSURANCE are going to be unable to access healthcare --and that will lead to undiagnosed conditions and lack of treatment.

When people are dying in the street WITH INSURANCE, maybe the families and friends of the deceased will show up at the polls to vote out members of Congress who let the healthcare insurance companies write the HCR bill.

[bertman]

37. Don't blame the teabaggers. Blame the Congress and President who gave up on this fight

before it even began. Spineless, bought-and-sold corporate shills.

P.S. I'm sorry to hear about your policy changes and increased costs and out-of-pockets.

Recommend.

[ProSense]

39. They're also trying to kill the bill

details

[chimpymustgo]

44. Hey, ain't this great??!! Three fucking CHEERS!

[lonestarnot]

41. Motherfuckers need to be put OUT of business period.

[Vidar]

42. K&R.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

45. Every time I heard Barack say

"If you like the insurance coverage you have now, you can keep it," I cringed. The last 10 years have seen an explosion in premiums and deductables and COBRA is an unaffordable joke, too. This is so frightening and pathetic. Forget which radio show I heard today where the question was asked: "What right do we have to be invading and occupying countries to promote "democracy" when we can't even take care of sick people in our own country?"

K&R

[CoffeeCat]

48. A sucky bill is part of the corporate grand plan...

We all know that the health-insurance industry wrote this sickening bill. We all know that these
leeches lobbied hard for no meaningful reform. They wanted to put together the healthcare bill.

Ever wonder why Obama didn't get involved and travel around the country espousing the benefits
of a public option? Because big insurance donated to his campaign and said, "We got this...you
just sit tight while we craft the bill that we bought with those nice campaign contributions
that we gave to you...k?"

The corporations wrote this bill to enrich themselves and to kill healthcare reform once
and for all.

The hell, the outrage and the blind fury that will result from this stupid, senseless healthcare
bill is going to punch a hole in this country. Everyone will be pissed and complaining. There
will be example after example of flaws. CNN will be there when people can't get healthcare, or
they don't understand their plan or they can't afford it--or they die because they still don't
have healthcare.

It will be a massive failure. One that Obama and the Dems in Congress will own. Are you ready
for the shitstorm?

Gearing up to 2010 and 2012--Republicans will promise to get us "back to normal" and kill this
healthcare bill. People will be lining up to get this loser bill destroyed. Republicans will
be able to say, "SEE!! We told you that healthcare reform was a bad idea!! Now look at what
Obama and the Dems have done! We told you so!!"

The Republicans will look like wise heroes riding in on their white horses.

That's what you get---when you allow the corporations to dictate your policies.

[Old Ed in VN]

51. Preexisting condition

If stupidity were to be added to preexisting condition's, wouldn't that exclude many from health care? Everyday when I wake up I thank me for escaping the current insanity of the US. Little did I think that when Umerica elected a black president that this epic first would cause implosions heard around the world. So much for the shining light on the hill. Why is it that the wingnut/corporate congress dictates to the (I hope) majority. When Mr. O was elected everywhere I went people were congratulating the US for coming out of the dark ages. Now, even 3rd world countries laff at the 4th world country called US.
The current cheer in the US seems to be, Hail Stupidity.
Unlike most wingnuts, I did serve in the military (family tradition) & was in Afghanistan (civilian), yet I have given up on a country that values stupidity over knowledge.
The best to all that are braver & work for a better country.
Love.

[Kablooie]

52. Blue Cross is one of the worst offenders. Bad service and high charges. Always has been.

[RedCloud]

53. First they bribe the officials and put shit in the media. Then they pass that cost onto us

[customerserviceguy]

54. Frankly, I'd take the HSA and sock away the difference

Then I'd seek to negotiate cash payments with providers.

We've been on this collision course for years. Imagine if your auto insurance policy covered every set of tires, every oil change, and your annual registration fees. The costs of all of those things, plus some handling-charge profit, would be added into your premiums. Your neighbor gets fat new tires every year to squeal away from his driveway in his Hummer, while you get nothing at all for making the tires last on your Prius.

If anybody expects things to work differently with either single-payer, public option, or even mandated private insurance, they're fooling themselves. There's absolultely no way that we're going to cover more people, for more things, with less out-of-pocket for a lesser dollar amount. Even if you take every CEO salary, wasteful advertising expense, and costly bit of paperwork out of the system, it's still going to cost more to give full healthcare to every American.

That's why I favor single-payer, with co-pays. It cuts these costs, and imposes a "do I really need to see the doctor?" cautionary note on all but the hypochondriacs.

[Vinca]

56. The officials involved in crafting so-called "reform" keep coming out

and making the point that "of course it's a good plan because the insurance companies are spending millions to stop it." Translation: the longer we string this out . . . preferably years, maybe decades . . . the more checks we get. Big insurance isn't upset at all. No restrictions of what they can charge. By the time 2014 rolls around you can make the choice of insurance for a year or paying cash for a new car. Oh, wait, some people can already do that. An insurance policy or a starter house.