FDL--Obama Style and the Looming Losses in 2010

[nightrain]

Interview and f/u with Drew Westen


http://firedoglake.com/2010/01/06/fdl-welcomes-drew-westen-leadership-obama-style-and-the-looming-losses-in-2010/#comments

[NJmaverick]

1. There must be dancing in the streets over at FDL

they can't wait to get the Dems out of power.

[ShortnFiery]

4. It's NOT about "Democrats" but about our leadership's LACK of empathy for anything

that is not a large Corporate interest. They are not behaving wise and will pay at the polls. Just because us LIBERALS warn you of such, doesn't mean that we "hate democrats."

Critical Thinking - political quandaries are not one-dimensional.

[NJmaverick]

9. "corporate dems' is an invention of those looking for cover

for their destructive behavior. The reality is you are dealing with liberals who have a contempt for anything or anyone that is moderate. Their contempt is going to be the down fall of our party.

[ShortnFiery]

15. No, "Corporate" is an apt description of our Political Leadership on both sides of the aisle.

What's INVENTED are all these extraneous labels such as left vs. right, conservative vs. liberal, etc.

It's a simple question everyone should ask: Does THIS political leader serve "the people" or "the wealthy (upper 1%) corporate elite."

[vi5]

22. In all seriousness.....

I read and like your posts (and am a fellow NJ person) so I know you're not someone with whom I regularly disagree or who is unreasonable in their opinions.

But whether we throw a name at them or not, do you not think that there are a chunk of Democrats (probably more in the house than the Senate) who are making judgements and casting votes based more on what is best for corporate donors or big business in general rather than the majority of citizens in the country or at the very least their constituents? Even when polling data tells them that doing so is unpopular with the average voter and even when factual data tells them that the vote they are casting will have a negative impact on the economy, etc.?

I'm fairly moderate, and being from NJ I obviously understand the other side of the arguments in terms of taxes, and businesses leaving and having worked for many I'm far from anti-corporate myself. So I'm not even unsympathetic when someone like Lautenberg or Menendez occassionaly votes against something that would be outwardly devastating to certain pharma interests or what have you.

But that being said there's no doubt in my mind that there are a chunk of elected democrats who when it comes to corporations and big business interests will vote with and for them every single time, no matter how devastating the effects of their votes on the country, or their state, or the democratic party as a whole. So while I don't personally make it a habit of going around screaming "CORPORATE DEMS!!!!" at every possible juncture, I also don't think it's an outlandish or an entirely incorrect position to take that this particular group of people are harmful to progress, progressives, and the democratic agenda as a whole and in siding with failed republican policies in this area will turn off as many moderate working and middle class dems as they will firebreating liberals.

[nightrain]

5. you are missing te point that Dems, I repeat, DEMS are justifiably disgusted

with corporate Dems.

On edit, this is in reply to the above reply. Sorry.

On 2nd edit, no, looks like I was replying to Mav correctly.

[NJmaverick]

7. :Corporate Dems is a mythical creature invented to justify bringing down the party

[nightrain]

8. no, they exist.

[NJmaverick]

10. More like moderate Dems exist

and the term was invented to demonize them.

[nightrain]

11. "moderate" doesn't necessarily mean supportive of corporations over people.

[NJmaverick]

13. bull

[ShortnFiery]

16. Moderate = Corporate = Moderate Democrats = All Republicans.

[nightrain]

18. no, not bull. I know plenty of moderate Dems who don't support

the transfer of wealth from regular people to corporations.

[burning rain]

24. Hint: why are liberal Republicans extinct?

What was it about the nature of the national Democratic Party in times past, that made their existence possible? What change has occurred in the national Democratic Party--particularly at its top levels--that eliminated the basis for liberal Republicans to exist?

[suzie]

32. There's a certain part of the party that loved being able to talk and talk and talk.

They loved being permanently out of power, because it gave them power within the Democratic Party.

They hate actual elected officials, especially when they're Democrats, because those people put in the time to get elected and have an actual constituency instead of a lot of sayings.

The success of the Obama Campaign has been really scary to the Democratic Talking Class because it threatens their power base within the Party.

The only way for this group to regain their power within the Party is to take down Obama and bring down the Party all around. Then they can go back to telling everyone how bad the Republicans are
without worrying about actually defeating any of them.

What's scary to them is that everyone else had this taste of victory--which is why you saw them so vocal about bringing down Obama even before the Inauguration.

[nightrain]

38. wow. what an interesting perspective...

[bertman]

36. You're just gettin' all mavricky with us, so we're gonna have to up your meds. Or move

you to the padded cell section.

[TheWraith]

25. Actual Democrats aren't disgusted with either Obama or the party.

In fact, Obama's approval rating with Democrats is as high as it was on Inauguration Day.

[nightrain]

29. please cite a source. That's not at all my experience.

[TheWraith]

31. Your experience is quite wrong.

"Obama enjoys 84% approval from Democrats"

And that's from Gallup. It was 90% on inauguration day.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124949/Approval-Obama-Starts-2010-Shaky-Spot.aspx

[nightrain]

34. LOL. A person's experience cannot, by definition, be wrong.

[TheWraith]

35. Obviously it can. nt

[nightrain]

37. LOL.

[nightrain]

20. so, did you read the linked article?

[fasttense]

23. Shut Up and go buy your mandatory health Insurance before the IRS gets you.

:sarcasm:

[DarthDem]

2. Soooooooooo Tired of FDL

I have absolutely no idea what they're trying to accomplish over there. If they can't stand Democrats so much, how about they just stop blogging?

[nightrain]

6. see #5

[DarthDem]

21. Point Taken

I don't like it when Democrats act like they're beholden to corporate interests either. There's a way to be pro-business and progressive at the same time.

However, FDL (and others) just take it too far.

[TheWraith]

26. But if they stopped blogging, how would anyone know that FDL was holier than everyone else?

That's what it comes down to. They're not happy without being the fighting underdog against impossible odds, even if they have to make the odds impossible themselves by kicking out anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. Kind of like the teabaggers.

[DarthDem]

28. Great Comparison

And you hit it right on the head - - I don't like people telling me whether I'm a good Democrat or not. Also, there's a stridency and general rush to judgment (about everything) at FDL that's disturbing. And I still want to see who they would support in political office. The Kucinich Party, maybe.

[nightrain]

30. did you read the linked article?

[ShortnFiery]

3. What's tragic is that us Liberals are correct in providing "a warning" but will also be BLAMED

when what we predict comes true.

It's always "the liberals" fault. <--- it will seemingly fill in every blank. :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

12. The liberals that turn on the party are going to be blamed for the

destruction THEY cause. Go figure

[nightrain]

14. or--the liberals that support the values of the Dem party will be congratulated for

reminding other Dems about what Dem values have been and are.

[ShortnFiery]

17. No, we didn't FORCE you to keep AIG afloat ... we didn't FORCE you to reward bloated

executives ... we didn't FORCE you to NOT RESCIND The Patriot Act ... we didn't FORCE you to EXECUTE people using Drone Planes in acts of "Summary Executions" ... we didn't FORCE you to escalate combat troops strength in Afghanistan TWICE ... we didn't FORCE you to stay in Iraq as long as Bush agreed to ... we didn't FORCE you to BREAK your promise to close GITMO ... we didn't FORCE you to mandate insurance premiums that will continue to transfer wealth UP to the Ruling Elite 1% ... ETC ETC!!!

No, this is all MODERATE = CORPORATE INTERESTS = these Bills and Initiatives only serves the WEALTHY ELITES who are invested in Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex up to their eyeballs.

There's NOTHING "for the people" in your Moderate = Corporate President and Democratic Congressional Leadership.

Prepare to pay the price and when looking for someone to blame = look in the mirror.

[nightrain]

19. I hear your sentiment and I agree mostly, excepting I know people

who describe themselves as moderate Dems who don't support the corporate rise.

[TheWraith]

27. Stop pretending like only the tantrum brigade are "liberals."

The rest of us are just as liberal as you are, but the difference is that we're better acquainted with politics.

[depakid]

33. I generally don't consider guys like Dr. Westen to be part of any "tantrum brigade"