Outrage of the Day! Dr. Tiller's Murderer Could Be Out in Five Years

[Joanne98]

Sat Jan 09, 2010 at 02:00:08 PM PST

Unbelievable.

In a pretrial hearing Friday, Kansas Judge Warren Wilbert said he might allow the defense to present evidence that Mr. Roeder acted in defense of others -- in this case, fetuses -- whom he believed to be under imminent threat.

---

Judge Wilbert also said he was open to the defense presenting evidence that Mr. Roeder might be guilty not of first-degree murder, which carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison, but of the far lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter, which carries a sentence of about five years.

Scott Roeder gunned down Dr. Tiller in cold blood. In church. He's admitted to it. And he isn't the least bit remorseful.

"No, I don't have any regrets because I have been told so far at least four women have changed their minds, that I know of, and have chosen to have the baby," Roeder said. "So even if one changed her mind it would be worth it. No, I don't have any regrets."

But now the judge has decided Roeder should have a chance to prove he was merely defending "preborn children" because he was "compelled" to do so. And what is his evidence?

The defense has subpoenaed former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline, who plans to testify that he reviewed patient medical records and found evidence Dr. Tiller was illegally aborting "viable, unborn children," a spokesman for Mr. Kline said.

Just one problem with that.

Dr. Tiller was acquitted of related charges in a jury trial two months before his death.

But hey, why let facts get in the way when you're making excuses for murdering doctors saving lives?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/9/823228/-Dr.-Tillers-Murderer-Could-Be-Out-in-Five-Years

:nuke:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. Do you think Obama's justice department will step in and file federal charges?

:rofl:

[niyad]

4. glad your little icon was rolling. before I saw that, my thought was "fat chance"

[Mopar151]

16. The Chance Family

"Slim" Chance, "Fat" Chance, and their sister, "Nada" Chance

[abluelady]

2. Maybe He'll Die in Prison

like the Holocaust Museum shooter--there's got to be justice out there somewhere.

[niyad]

6. you are missing the point--not how long he might serve, but THIS part:

In a pretrial hearing Friday, Kansas Judge Warren Wilbert said he might allow the defense to present evidence that Mr. Roeder acted in defense of others -- in this case, fetuses -- whom he believed to be under imminent threat

[abluelady]

7. I Didn't Miss the Point

I believe we live with judges like Wilbert so we have to adjust to that and hope for a different outcome. Since when has our justice system not had flaws?

[JohnWxy]

13. He should be charged with a hate crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.<1>

"Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts which are seen to have been motivated by hatred of one or more of the listed conditions. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters.<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group

A true group exhibits some degree of social cohesion and is more than a simple collection or aggregate of individuals, such as people waiting at a bus stop. Characteristics shared by members of a group may include interests, values, ethnic or social background, and kinship ties. According to Paul Hare, the defining characteristic of a group is social interaction.<1>


...acting in "defense of others"? What others? Every pregnancy has a risk of a stillborn fetus. The murderer said some women "changed their minds (about getting an abortion)". This changing of their minds can take place anytime up until the abortion is actually performed. So the murderer was acting in defense of a probable "other". Can one act in defense of a probable "other"? Did the murderer conduct a medical exam of a woman about to get an abortion? Did the murderer establish the fetus was a viable fetus. Was the murderer qualified to make such a determination? Was Dr. Tiller about to perform an abortion on THAT woman?

The murderer had no knowledge of any of the Probable "others" or their medical condition (viability). He was acting categorically. He did not have any specific knowledge as to the viability of the fetus or of the woman's medical condition (whether there was a risk to her health from going to full term). He murdered Dr. Tiller based upon his previously providing a medical service which his patients wanted. The murderer was not acting to protect anybody. It was a categorical execution of Dr. Tiller based on Dr. Tiller's beliefs which differed from the murderer's. Last time I checked, you can't murder someone because of differences you have with them in beliefs.

The murder of Dr. Tiller was a hate crime.

[Botany]

3. I doubt it

If they allow the victim's family and friends to testify @ any parole hearings he will die in prison .....
Charlie Manson and his followers all have come up for parole and all have been kept in prison although
that is California and Roeder is in Kansas but i still doubt he will ever walk free again.

[niyad]

5. you are kind of missing the point--which is that he is, apparently, going to be allowed a

"justifiable" defense. that is the problem, not how many years he might serve (and don't forget, a jury could actually find him not guilty)

[winyanstaz]

8. This will give the green light to more clinic bombings

and Drs and nurses being murdered by the Christian Terrorists.
I think we have turned into Bizzaro world.

[COLGATE4]

9. This is pretty terrifying

If a judge actually allows the use of the 'necessity' defense, even if it's not eventually successful, the mere fact that it was allowed at all will be enough for more of these nutcase fundie murderers to start ramping up plans to off other abortion providers. Not to mention that, if he is allowed to present this defense his chances of an acquittal go up dramatically. A really bad day for justice.

[inna]

12. +1. good post.

Welcome to DU btw if you're new, and it would be good to see more of your posts anyway! :hi:

[struggle4progress]

21. Judge disallows 'necessity defense' in Tiller Case: Judge Warren Wilbert also says the murder trial

will stay in Wichita
THE WICHITA EAGLE, KAN. | RON SYLVESTER | Wed, Dec 23, 3:08 AM

... Judge Warren Wilbert ruled Roeder could not use the so-called "necessity defense" in the killing of Wichita abortion provider George Tiller last May.

But the judge said he would "leave the door open" for Roeder's defense to present evidence and arguments that he killed in the belief that he was saving the lives of the unborn ...

Wilbert said he may limit what the defense can say in opening statements. Wilbert also said it would be difficult to allow testimony indicating Roeder was acting in defense of others because the law requires an "imminent threat."

Tiller was shot and killed May 31 inside the lobby of his church, where he was serving as an usher ...

http://dailyme.com/story/2009122300000374/judge-disallows-necessity-defense-tiller-case-.html

[Cheap_Trick]

10. Let the fucker out.

Then abortion providers would be under imminent threat and someone will act accordingly.

His dogma will be run over by karma.

[niyad]

14. "someone will act accordingly"? who? the fbi--who were doing nothing with the threats to Dr.

Tiller? the police, who don't do anything to the hate-mongers at the clinics, or about death threats to clinic escorts and workers? the justice department, which basically did nothing about the 500 or more anthrax mailings to Planned Parenthood clinics several years ago?

your view of what would happen is naive, to say the least.

[Cheap_Trick]

15. Perhaps someone who is tired of seeing assholes like this get away with it.

Gee..I didn't think that I was being all that subtle.

For the subtlety impaired, what I was saying is: If he gets away with it, next time someone sees him at an abortion clinic assume that the Dr. is in "imminent danger" and KILL SCOTT ROEDER.

Clear enough for you?

[Vidar]

11. K&R.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. sickening misogyny

women aren't really people.

Fetus fetishists determined to take over justice system. An unsurprising partnership, since women have been second class citizens historically, in the legal system.

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/74004/ -- excellent article from 2008, focusing on the general state of normalized misogyny in the US. Sickening and infuriating:

The fundamental problem in all of this is that women and girls are dehumanized, opening the floodgates to every kind of mistreatment. "Once you dehumanize somebody, everything else is possible," said Taina Bien-Aimé, executive director of the women's advocacy group Equality Now.

[FlyByNight]

18. Too bad Mr. Roeder wasn't caught with illegal narcotics...

...otherwise, he'd have been executed by now.

:eyes:

[winyanstaz]

20. yup...if only they had found a pot seed in his couch......

and if he lived in Texas...we would never see his ass walking around free again.
However...kill a Doctor..that's not so bad..five short years..maybe less for good behavior....home free to kill again.

[yellowcanine]

19. One flaw in that defense is that Dr. Tiller wasn't in the church to perform an abortion.

A good prosecutor should be able to take care of that flimsy defense in short order. Plus for that defense to have any chance at all they will have to put Roeder on the stand. I doubt that he would help his cause at all and he would likely hurt it a great deal - again assuming that the prosecutor is even halfway competent.