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'Are Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar “Quiverfull”?' - from No Longer Quivering

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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:35 PM
Original message
'Are Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar “Quiverfull”?' - from No Longer Quivering
http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/03/08/nlq-faq-are-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-quiverfull/
'

The Duggars frequently speak out about “causing” Michelle’s miscarriage by the use of birth control pills. They also adhere to Biblically-based abstinence for a set number of days following the birth of a boy or girl. This also supposedly ties in to the teaching of the Institute for Basic Life Principles, the pseudo-Christian organization founded by Bill Gothard. Gothard teaches couples to only have intercourse when the woman is at her “fertile” time each month.

Even breast feeding, which can be a barrier to conception is not to be prolonged for this reason. Back when the couple had a mere 13 children, Jim-Bob was quoted in the New York Times as saying he had “14 , really, since my wife is pregnant and life begins at conception’.” (New York Times, para. 11). An admission of such beliefs by a politician in a paper with worldwide circulation can only mean one thing: He believes it.

The Quiverfull idea began in the backlash against feminism. Mary Pride’s book The Way Home and a book A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess are most frequently cited as giving birth to the Quiverfull lifestyle. Both reject birth control. These books, with the Bible, and often the teachings of Bill Gothard’s Institute of Basic Life Principles and materials from the dominionist Patriarch group, Vision Forum, constitute the “How-To” manuals for prospective Quiverfull couples. (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).

The Duggars have been eager and thorough students.

On their TV show, Michelle has always said “children are like flowers, you can’t have too many flowers.” Jim-Bob frequently has said that he leaves the decision of having another child up to Michelle…..but is that true? In Gothardite families the husband is the undisputed leader of the family. “omen live within stringently enforced doctrines of wifely submission and male headship,” (Kathryn Joyce - Quiverfull Book, para. 1). If he wants to have sexual relations the wife says “yes.” Since the wife is not able to use birth control or to refuse her husband is the decision to have another child really hers? Would he really forgo his pleasure if she said she couldn’t handle having another child? Maybe. Certainly in other times men have made such a decision.

Today, with birth control the norm, we find it hard to believe. Many a Catholic couple of years gone by have lived out a platonic marriage– at least until the wife’s child bearing years have ended. Given the frequent, enthusiastic kissing and other shows of affection on their TV show though, it is doubtful that he would agree to a platonic life. Given their fervent belief in the rightness of allowing God to control their fertility and that they clearly see “that a woman’s constant sexual availability to her husband is not only her wifely “duty,” but also at the heart of her “ministry” as a believing Christian” (Byrnes, T A (Summer 2009). Patriarchy: the glue that holds the culture war together. Conscience, 30, 2. p.52(2).

I doubt that a platonic marriage will ever exist between Mr. and Mrs. Duggar.

““Our bodies are meant to be a living sacrifice,” write the Hesses. Or, as Mary Pride, in another of the movement’s founding texts, The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality, puts it, “My body is not my own.” This rebuttal of the feminist health text Our Bodies, Ourselves is deliberate.” (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).


Much more at the link: http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/03/08/nlq-faq-are-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-quiverfull



About No Longer Quivering
http://nolongerquivering.com/about/

New to NLQ? Start here: http://nolongerquivering.com/new-to-nlq-start-here/
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Uggh...
I think that's all I need to say...
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kywildcat Donating Member (529 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. And this brood mare is significant how?
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. quiverfull is a political as well as religious movement. most want a Theocracy
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 08:50 AM by Shallah Kali
having as many kids as possible is one part of their goal of turning America into a 'Christian', or at least their flavor of fundamentalist Christianity, Nation.

Add in the Gothardism which some consider an out and out cult that has reached out to the government and buisnesses with it's character building programs ( read here: http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2450/ ) BTW stealth theocrate Mike Huckabee is a Gothard follower http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/175629/012/188/439174 & http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php?/contents/comments/2095/ Sarah Palin has links as well http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/18/palin_iacc/

Gothard is one of religious types that seem to think babies need to have their wills broken before they are a year old. Read this woman's account of how her little brothers were blanket trainedbb - put the baby on a small blanket w/a toy. if the kid tries to crawl off hit the hand or foot that is off the blanket: http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2009/09/blanket-training.html More on some of the other mind altering Gothard approved techniques for babies http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=521385&mesg_id=521385

Do you know the story of Matthew Murry the teen who cracked and killed several people at two churches? He grew up Gothard - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090921/blumenthal AND http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/17/19345/187/34/423032

THAT is why Michelle and JimBob Duggar are significant and not simply an odd religious sect or easy targets for low humor.

THAT is also why I post about them. If I posted something about some odd political movement many would not read. When I post something with Duggar in the headline there are tons of hits. I hope people actually read more at the links I post instead of just dropping into make a joke...
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. To me they are of the same ilk as the Octmom..using her body and her children to gain attention
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 08:52 PM by BrklynLiberal
no matter what the ultimate cost to the children..
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Only the Duggars are also promoting a religious/political movement in the process
It is not only about the money it is about showing off how wonderful their family is so others will want to do what they do and believe what they believe. Never mind the abusive aspects such as turning your little daughters into foster mothers to their own siblings before they even hit puberty. Hey but when you are breeding mighty warriors for their deity sacrifices must be made....

'Arrows for the War'
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061127/joyce

Extreme Motherhood
Understanding Quiverfull, the antifeminist, conservative Christian movement that motivates popular reality-TV families like the Duggars.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/189763
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. They truly make me physically ill....and that there are channels that make them "celebrities"
Edited on Tue Mar-09-10 11:35 AM by BrklynLiberal
is one more sad, sad commentary on our media..and whom it is they really serve.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. They are paid to breed
Go in to a tire store and ask if they think you need a new set of tires.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. It gets worse.
They set up their family and home as a tax exempt church and teach seminars to other couples on how to scam the government too.
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Take cameras away and you will find a family that isn't perfect. I think these kids
have no idea what life is like outside their family. So sad.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. They are very sheltered as was discussed in the article I posted before
or more precisely they are kept ignorant. Many families like these only associate with people in their own church or if they home church are of the same belief system so the kids never know there is any other way than theirs, just that other ways are ungodly.

A woman who left the quiverfull and fundamentalist movement writes about the culture shock she and her kids went through and how the outside world wasn't as horrific as they expected here:

Looking Back: My Family 10 Years on From Fundamentalism by Ariett
http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/03/01/looking-back-my-family-10-years-on-from-fundamentalism/
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. They are not perfect even when the cameras are rolling
I've watched about four episodes, and you see something pretty majorly fucked up every five minutes or so. Mom is pretty much just parenting the infant of the month, and all the other kids are being raised by the older kids.
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StopTheNeoCons Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Puke...vomit.....repeat....n/t
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xfundy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gothard.... GAHHHH!
I was a victim of Gothardist "christian" bullshit as a child, via the "Institute of (some shit or the other)." They filled many seats in an arena down south, and I and siblings were forced to go listen to the nonsense, put more nonsense into the three ring binder on command, and close our eyes and think about being anywhere else! (At least I did, my siblings are all fundies now, going to their country clubs, err, churches Sunday mornings and evenings and wednesday nights for the "suppers."

The way I tend to view "churches" now is indeed like country clubs, they gather there on the purple (!) carpet and talk about how "blessed" they are to be so much better than everyone else, and of course about how the libruls and democrats are all "of the devil," and the publicans are all "true christians," even the ones who've just been caught in a sex scandal (they are miraculously "forgiven" immediately and "made anew" but any democrat is NEVER forgiven.

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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I am sorry your family went though that.
Everything I have read of the Gothard teachings is that tend to the abusive :(
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Peee Yewwww.
They're disgusting. There's something wrong with that man - his eyes are crossed and too close together. The woman is a total tool. And all the children look pale and weird.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. Gothardism in the Air Force? - 'Air Force commander embraces Joel's Army paramilitary group'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/8/14242/4233/727/408109

Dueling Holy Wars: Air Force commander embraces Joel's Army paramilitary group
by dogemperor
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Dueling Holy Wars: Air Force commander embraces Joel's Army paramilitary groupTweet this submit to reddit Share This
Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:03:50 PM PST

Today, what appeared to most folks to be an emergency management group held a talk on Al Quaida and the Iraqi insurgency with a Brigadier-General of the Air Force's Cyberspace Command--implying that all of Islam was out to get us, and warning about Islam's own version of dominionism.

There was a big thing about the group holding the talk that very few people noticed, though.

The group conducting the talks--the "ALERT Academy"--is connected to the most extreme branches of dominionism: a movement called "Joel's Army" or the "Joshua Generation", which has been especially promoted by Bill Gothard and which has even gone to setting up paramilitary training camps for its own...of which ALERT Teams happens to be one.

And disturbingly, they seem to have gotten official sanction--by one of the heads of the very military department responsible for military satellites, surveillance, and watching the Internet for international threats.

* dogemperor's diary :: ::
*

The talk--covered in the Longview, TX News-Journal--seems innocuous enough on its face, if more than a bit jingoistic:

BIG SANDY — Islamic extremists have a 100-year plan for world domination, and Americans must be prepared for the long fight, a U.S. Air Force general told East Texans on Monday.

Speaking during a Veterans Day banquet in Big Sandy, Mike McClendon said extremists want to create an economic superpower with the biggest army and strongest currency, and they want half the world's population to reside in an Islamic state.

They plan to gain control of oil reserves and bankrupt Western countries, and they plan to create safe havens throughout the world, including some in Latin America, he said.

"They're willing to go as long as it takes, and they are making progress," said McClendon, who commands the Air Force's Global Cyberspace Integration Center in Virginia.

McClendon's office culled the information from extremist Web sites, he said. The general, a former teacher at the International ALERT Academy in Big Sandy, delivered the findings to about 450 people who attended ALERT's sixth annual Veterans Day event Monday night.
. . .
The ALERT Academy is home to the Air Land Emergency Resource Team, which trains young Christian men to respond to natural disasters and other crises throughout the world.

David Herring, who coordinates outside events, camps and conferences for ALERT, said the banquet recognizes veterans and active military members, as well as law officers, firefighters, emergency personnel and other people who ALERT students should emulate.

snip

The reason I have used the term "Dueling Holy Wars" to refer to this speech is because ALERT Teams is far from innocuous. In fact, it can be argued they are among the "Extreme of the extreme" among Christian nationalist groups.

To give you some backgrounder, it's necessary to diverge for a wee bit and discuss a form of dominionism that--outside of a few people, such as Sara Diamond--hasn't gotten an intensive amount of research.

A lot of researchers into "Christian nationalist" movements in the US now agree there are three major branches--"Christian Reconstructionists" (popular in "independent fundamentalist Baptist" circles and also the subject of most research on dominionism to date), "ultramontaine" Catholicism (think Opus Dei), and a third group within neopentecostal churches that I have referrred to in my writings as "Joel's Army" dominionism or "neopentecostal dominionism".

Surprisingly, the neopente dominionists seem to have had the longest continuous push of all "Christian nationalist" groups (with the exception, of course, of segments of Catholic nationalist movements); they have also, especially in the past thirty years, become considerably more extreme in their tactics--both inside and outside of the churches where the movement lives.

Much more at the link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/8/14242/4233/727/408109
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. One more sect to be dealt with by rational, open-minded folks.
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StarlightGold Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's hard to imagine
what kind of a strangle-hold these religions have on people, especially women. What must this poor woman's insides look like? I'm pro-choice for abortion or for having as many kids as you want, but how much of a choice does she have in this? Pretty sad...
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NICO9000 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. These people are their own personal cult
I've watched it a couple of times and was thoroughly disgusted. I can't believe the mom hasn't croaked yet. How is her body supposed to withstand cranking out one kid every nine months? Her husband won't be satisfied until he kills her with this craziness and then it'll just be "God's will"...
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Douva Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. All About Gothardism and the "Quiverfull" Movement
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