Holland considers assisted suicide for anyone over 70

[katty]

Assisted suicide for anyone over 70 who has simply had enough of life is being considered in Holland.

Non-doctors would be trained to administer a lethal potion to elderly people who 'consider their lives complete'.

The radical move would be a world first and push the boundaries even further in the country that first legalised euthanasia.
The Dutch parliament is to debate the measure after campaigners for assisted suicide collected 112,500 signatures in a month.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1256670/Holland-proposes-giving-70s-consider-lives-complete-right-die.html#ixzz0hoBhnjt3

[marmar]

1. Wow.......I love the Netherlands, but I'm slightly conflicted on this one....

But I think the Dutch are the most pragmatic, sensible people on the planet.

[katty]

2. yes, rather enlightened approach

[Green_Lantern]

13. not that enlightened....

It is basically just avoiding the hassle of making life meaningful for older people.

[elehhhhna]

18. bullroar. go there. the Dutch have more respect for the elderly than any

other culture. Up there w/ the Asians.

[katty]

26. well, sometimes when one is so compromised - life does hurt

very much, it is agony, I have been through it with some of my friends and family members over the years-2 of my immediate family members went through sheer hell over this issue when their quality of life was severely gone from illness.

[Green_Lantern]

29. this issue isn't

People with illnesses.

[katty]

31. yeah i get that, but again, the mature person would be making

the decision for themselves.

[kestrel91316]

3. Suicide will always be with us. For the elderly in failing health, it can

either be messy and tragic, or it can be a tidy ceremony. I would be the last person to try to deny any elderly person the right to make this choice. The Dutch have got their heads on straight.

[katty]

6. yes, concur, I would certainly want to opt out once I am really

compromised and perhaps draining my family with constant care requirements. Plus, I can't even imagine (right now) being on this planet until I'm 70-lordy! The process of assisted death can be done with care and graciousness.

[kestrel91316]

7. Hey, MANY people in their 70's have very high quality lives. My

grandparents slowed down, but I didn't consider them frail until they were in their early to mid 80's. They died in their late 80's.

[katty]

9. yes that is true, my dad is in later 80's - he has quality of life

in a music group and is quite busy.

[Better Today]

41. So I'm going to guess he wouldn't choose to go the route of assisted suicide at this time, so

where's the problem?

[katty]

48. no, and I have no prob with choice about this issue-why are

u asking me?

[kestrel91316]

53. He's picking fights with us. Use the alert button for this sort of thing.

[Better Today]

57. You appeared to be suggesting that you didn't support choice because

you grandparent is fine in his 80s. I guess since you didn't actually address the OP, only chose to agree with someone who doesn't agree with the OP, it gave the appearance of "siding" if you will with a group that appears to be against the OP. My bad.

[Better Today]

12. What's your point? It doesn't say forced assisted suicide, it would be choice.

So if your grandparent(s) wanted out of the rat race in their mid-80's, you'd be okay blocking them from a safe and painless option?

[Green_Lantern]

16. I'd prefer my grandparents to not kill themselves....

Just because they are old.

How is this safe? Dead is dead.

[Better Today]

23. It wouldn't be your preference that would rule the day, they could

decide for themselves. You would deny them that?

[elehhhhna]

27. and there's the question : who decides? You? Or them?

btw if G&G want to off themselves, how you gonna stop 'em?

The trouble w DIY suicide is it doesn't always work. Assisted is another story. I know a few people who would have availed themselves of this if they could have -- both w/ end stage cancers. One tried to o.d. and just slept late the next day. THAT was a tense night.

[kestrel91316]

52. WTF are you talking about? Read the post I am responding to.

I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU. Why are you inserting yourself into this and picking ANOTHER fight with me??? Don't think I don't notice the stalking from thread to thread, picking fights.

[smirkymonkey]

45. I would think that especially true of the Dutch. They walk and bike

everywhere, eat healthy. Ok, maybe they have a little too much fun sometimes, but they all look VERY healthy. I think I would raise the age to 80 or 85.

[Better Today]

47. This doesn't appear to be health related, but instead choice related.

I agree that the 70 age consideration seems unfair, it should include any adult.

[Green_Lantern]

10. allowing doctors to kill people..

Because the people feel they are a burden bothers me because it is easy to convince them they are better off dead.

[Better Today]

14. So who is it that's going to "convince" them? Family members? They already do in

many many cases, the only difference is that in the proposed legal option, the elderly won't have to listen to it ad nauseum and indefinitely.

[katty]

20. 'wont' have to listen to...' you do have a point there

[Green_Lantern]

22. that is exactly why I don't trust this..

It's not really a choice when you are dependent on others.

[Better Today]

25. So you think they should be forced to suffer daily degradation rather

than getting away, through death, from those that would use their dependence to degrade them daily?

Wow, that seems too cruel to me.

[Green_Lantern]

33. killing the elderly is a horrifying way to deal...

With elderly abuse.

[Better Today]

35. So you're voting for their abuse to continue rather than giving them a choice?

Besides chosen suicide is not "killing".

[Green_Lantern]

38. no I'd prefer to prosecute and end the abuse...

Why not broaden this to abused children?

[Better Today]

40. End the abuse, . . . in the USA? . . . well that's quite pie in the sky.

Furthermore if an elderly person has enough wherewithall to decide to euthanize themselves, they should have enough to call for help if they are being abused and don't want to euthanize themselves. . . not the same as abused children at all.

[Green_Lantern]

42. abused wives who leave the house rarely call for help..

So how do you figure a person dependent on someone else for care will do it?

[Better Today]

43. and they rarely choose to commit suicide, unless you consider them staying

with their abusers or going to the next abuser as suicide. You're reaching for straws.

[Green_Lantern]

44. the point with abused women had to do with calling for help...

Not suicide.

[Better Today]

46. My opinion is that you are grasping for straws and attempting to determine

that you or some other entity knows what's best for others. I resoundingly reject that concept.

[kestrel91316]

54. Why in the hell are you attacking people in this thread who support choice?

Since you seem to support choice.

Pretty strange. Are you losing track of your own flamebaiting, perhaps?

[Green_Lantern]

58. no I just want to make sure this is really a free choice...

And not just vulnerable people being preyed on or being victim of circumstances.

[ccinamon]

24. +1 .....n/t

[raccoon]

59. Maybe the US should pass a law similar to this for uninsured people.

:sarcasm:

What's the difference?

[Xithras]

63. As I mentioned in another thread the other day...

My great grandmother lived until she was 103 in her own home, under her own care, with all of her own faculties right up until the very end. She even tended her own garden and roses every year. One day she simply felt tired, laid down for a nap, and didn't wake up.

Aging isn't always horrible, and many people have happy lives right up until the end.

[warm regards]

65. 70...? Imagine. Life is good !!!

http://www.aolnews.com/article/two-of-the-worlds-oldest-people-die-on-same-day/19388293

[UndertheOcean]

4. See what happens when you legalize pot !

just kidding .

I am ok with this , as long as depression is not involved and it is a pure personal choice.

[Blue Owl]

5. Get ready for the GOP spin machine to tell us

how "Obamacare" will require every 70-year old to be euthanized under federal law, so dumb shits like Michelle Bachmann can pretend to care about America...

Wait for it...

[Green_Lantern]

8. this isn't necessarily good...

I'm afraid some elderly people will see themselves as simply a burden and just want to die. I'm really uncomfortable allowing doctors to kill people, especially disabled and elderly people vulnerable to them being seen as a burden.

[Raster]

15. Isn't that how we treat the elderly in this country anyway?

We don't venerate their life experiences or appreciate their years of contribution to the fabric of society. Once persons are deemed no longer able to work and "contribute" their worth to society noticeably decreases.

[ccinamon]

17. If that is their choice, what's the problem? I don't want to be a burden to

my family and I wish suicide was a choice I could make legally.

Not everyone thinks being miserable and alive is a good option.

[Green_Lantern]

28. this is my point...

I don't think it is much of a choice when everyone supporting it phrases it as either die or live in misery.

[Better Today]

32. Anyone who was happy with their life as it was or as it would become

probably wouldn't choose for assisted suicide.

[Green_Lantern]

34. well whose life is constant happiness?

Anyone has their miserable times.

[Better Today]

37. I get it, you want to decide what's right for others. Okay. Have a lovely day!

[Green_Lantern]

39. not exactly...

I want to make sure it is a free choice. This is like the choice to work in a sweatshop. Is it really a free choice?

[ccinamon]

11. Very humane...never understood why our pets get better humane treatment

than humans do when death is near

[Better Today]

19. Excellent, sounds like a wonderful idea so long as it is a choice.

Suicide needs to be de-demonized. Some folks are just ready not to be here (where ever here is) and should be able to have both a safe, relatively painless way to handle that, as well as an ability to discuss it freely with others without fearing being put in the loony bin.

[kestrel91316]

55. So why have you attacked my comment upthread, when I clearly support choice?

[elehhhhna]

21. This is only appropriate in countries that offer cradle to grave healthcare

wihtout bankrupting people. otherwise motives get murky.

[Better Today]

30. I see your point, but is it more humane to force people without proper health care

or elderly care to suffer through till some other horror takes them, like massive infections from not being cared for, or malnutrition, or homelessness?

[Green_Lantern]

36. no but the same can be said of impoverished people...

Why the elderly but not other people who suffer due to lack of resources.

Secondly what if private insurance decides its cheaper to not cover the elderly and incentivizes this?

[Tailormyst]

49. Honestly, I have no problem with this.

[WVRICK13]

50. It All Depends On The Person

I have friends who are old and used up at 55 and other friends who are active and happy at 95. Genetics and the life you have lead is the decider. I guess it would be better to have someone hell bent on checking out do so in a clean dignified manner. Nothing is more disturbing than having to respond to a failed suicide attempt by handgun. Successful suicides by weapon are pretty ugly too. They are both something a family should not have to deal with.

[harkadog]

51. This is Europe's solution to their population crisis.

Almost every European country is declining in population so there are fewer young people to support the elderly. Soon, perhaps in five years, those governments will not just be "allowing" assisted suicide they will be encouraging it. They will tell healthy elderly people to avoid the paid and sickness of old age by suicide. It will be sold just as Pepsi is sold today.

[Vidar]

56. Good for the Dutch.

[Vattel]

60. I guess I should have stayed in the Netherlands afterall.

Couldn't find a job; so I came back. One does worry about people being pressured into making a mistake and committing suicide too soon, but why should some be denied any choice to make a humane and dignified exit from life just so others are not pressured into making such a choice? So long as neither coercion nor fraud nor depression nor mental illness are involved in the choice, my feeling is that the choice should be permitted. Some will unwisely choose to die and some will unwisely choose to live, but it will be their choice.

[Green_Lantern]

61. well you bring up another issue...

How would we really ever know who was really wanting to die or who was either depressed or just talked into it?

It'd be very hard to prove. And yes I think prosecuting any doctor who euthanizes patients is worth it to prevent people being preyed on by angel of mercy.

I'd be interested to see how hospice feels about this issue.

[Vattel]

62. Hard to prove? Sure. But why is that a reason to deny choice?

You shouldn't restrict choice just because it might be the case that the choice is often an unwise one.

[Green_Lantern]

64. it is if the choice isn't really a choice...

Just because something is advertised as choice doesn't mean it's really free choice.

There are a lot of low wage workers who choose to work for slave wages but it's not a true choice..

[onpatrol98]

66. Too Much Elder Abuse

Not every older person has the right support system surrounding them. Some older people with children well into their 50s are nothing but leeches wondering how soon something would happen to a parent so they could get what meager inheritance they could pick up.

There are no signs of physical abuse, but there is a slow, process of showing an older parent that they're no longer useful. So, quite possibly you'd have a person making a choice to just end it, when really, they've simply been made to feel as if they're a burden on their family.

I can understand someone dealing with a lot of pain wanting this choice...but, a choice simply because people have reached a certain age. That sounds like a country looking for a way to discard its elders when their costs to society are perceived to have increased.

That doesn't sound like a country that loves old people. Maybe their motives are honorable, but it just seems short sighted to me. Not to mention, there's a wealth of knowledge in older people. Instead of trying to make it easier for them to die, why not find ways to make it easier for them to live. Maybe they wouldn't choose death, if life for them was easier.

In fact...would anyone really choose death, if life for them were better? Why are we about making life better, rather than making death easier and quicker. It just seems backwards.

[Green_Lantern]

67. +1

[hayu_lol]

68. The naysayers here are hilarious...

Most stand in firm support of a woman's right to choose using terms like...their body is their body, etc. etc.

These people are saying that the elderly cannot own their lives as well? Seems so.

Others on this site appear to hate the elderly just because the elderly are in their way. Strange that so many would attempt to prevent a person from making a rational decision to call it quits.

Wait until you get into the 'elderly' category. Bury a mess of friends, spouses, children, have no work, have little money, have simply no quality of life left. Just wait.

Oh yeah, I am elderly. I can see myself making such a decision very easily.

The Dutch are good people. They have a tendency to think things like this through.

Remember what the word 'choice' means. Remember who is making this choice.